For critique

[Pete Moss]

Hahaaa! I was more or less joking. I agree Gino, and thanks, for for lack of a better word, orienting me back to Signs 101. It was a fun project and good to hear everyone's ideas. I'll post the final sign once approved.

 

[TimToad]

Gentle ??

Ya ain't gonna get that in this place. Once you hafta ask for it, they'll go even harder yet on you. From the beginning, you had something completely satisfactory. You chose to tweak it further, and for this place that became a challenge. All you've been getting is 'personal preference' opinions. All of the advise you've received works, but it's almost impossible to put it all to good use in one little poster.

Good luck............... ​

I'm sorry, but prioritizing copy in order of importance by making correct font choices, stroke weight, color, effects, etc.. are not "personal preferences" they are long held graphic design principles. I don't think the two posters I mentioned who actually provided sample layouts that were all more effective, attractive and visually compelling were simply offering "personal preferences".

 

[rjpjr]

... All you've been getting is 'personal preference' opinions.

??
Personal preference and legibility are not equivalent.

The OP received constructive criticism based on the legibility of his designs. He then applied just enough of the suggestions that the layout became more legible.

On the other, had I wanted to mention personal preference, I would have discussed the background colors which are not all that "Christmas like" in my opinion. BUT, I didn't. My comments were based on legibility alone and as always, I backed up my observation with demonstration.

As a result of the constructive criticism of this thread, his layout improved but maybe not as much as it could have as TimToad is implying.

 

[Gino]

I'm sorry, but prioritizing copy in order of importance by making correct font choices, stroke weight, color, effects, etc.. are not "personal preferences" they are long held graphic design principles. I don't think the two posters I mentioned who actually provided sample layouts that were all more effective, attractive and visually compelling were simply offering "personal preferences".

??
Personal preference and legibility are not equivalent.

The OP received constructive criticism based on the legibility of his designs. He then applied just enough of the suggestions that the layout became more legible.

On the other, had I wanted to mention personal preference, I would have discussed the background colors which are not all that "Christmas like" in my opinion. BUT, I didn't. My comments were based on legibility alone and as always, I backed up my observation with demonstration.

As a result of the constructive criticism of this thread, his layout improved but maybe not as much as it could have as TimToad is implying.

Sorry, if I ruffled some feathers, but you fail to see, I did reinforce the idea of good layout. It's just that he received so much conflicting information, all saying the same thing. Do this, do that and he did it.... and while it made it just a tad better, there wasn't any huge difference from his very first entries. While you guys, along with everyone else gave some very good advice, how can you put all that stuff into one little window or store poster ?? Oh yeah, you can, but then everything screams at you at one time creating a sensory overload kinda effect. Something has to be seen and read first, while other things take a back seat. You get this by utilizing colors, size and stroke. ..... and sometimes font choice(s). Subtle colors will place the priority much more effectively then some of the ideas given earlier. Green and red still say Christmas in my book.

 

[rjpjr]

Sorry, if I ruffled some feathers

No ruffled feathers here, just clarifying the differences between personal preference and legibility.

Green and red still say Christmas in my book.

Same here, but the green fading to yellow does not IMHO. My "personal preference" would have kept the greens dark and rich, like a good healthy Christmas tree.

 

[Pete Moss]

Arg, rushing too much. I uploaded the wrong versions of C and D. There is no red in the text in the actual version. I'll write more as more free time becomes available.

 

[Marlene]

last version "D"

 

[laserman70]

version d

 

[Pete Moss]

Alright, back on track here. When speaking of personal opinion vs. design principles I was looking at it as though I'd rather have contrast, as in similarity and contrast (which was referred to as variety when I was in school) over similarity (unity) within the text.

Wiki: Similarity and contrast[edit]

Planning a consistent and similar design is an important aspect of a designer's work to make their focal point visible. Too much similarity is boring but without similarity important elements will not exist and an image without contrast is uneventful so the key is to find the balance between similarity and contrast.[SUP][3]



I think I am going to research it more but at the time I was viewing it as contrast over similarity in font for the sake of visual interest. A good design should carry the viewer through each element in order of its significance. Since similarity and contrast are on the same plane in the design element hierarchy, it may be difficult to objectively say which one should be given priority. This could be construed as subjective however, as stated similarity wins on the legibility side of things.

Everyone learns at there own rate and looks at different things or even same things differently. To me this has been an successful process. I am always open to hearing these different viewpoints and always ready to learn more.

Thanks again.






[/SUP]

 

[TimToad]

No ruffled feathers here, but the recurring dynamic of you saying provocative things, passing judgement on others opinions in order to minimize them and inferring things based on your own filtering of other posts is what ruffles my feathers.

 

[qmr55]

Why post for critique if you already know best?

You got tons of great advice, along with some top notch examples. Yet you have failed to incorporate any of that advice into your designs. I've seen a 0% improvement from post 1 to your most recent.

My advice: re-read the first page and look at rj's and tikis examples.

Good luck.

 

[Marlene]

your first designs were good and did just need a few tweaks. a bunch of us took a look at it and made suggestions based on what we saw. you listened to everyone and made some changes. I don't see what the problem is with anything that you did. there will always be those who re-design the entire thing, post it and those who will expect you to dump your own design and go with someone else's idea. I like that you had a design and worked to make your design better.

 

[Pete Moss]

Thanks Marlene, I feel the same. I also explained my thought process and reasoning. We all look at things differently and I wanted to be sure that in the end the design was still my work. I am completely grateful for all the input and tried my best to be diligent in following the advice while still making the work mine. In my opinion constructive criticism goes further, maybe that's just me. I think it's too bad that some have gotten worked up over what is our passion. I don't care to waste any time on the negative. I love designing and really every part of the sign making process. I value advice that varies from my own, how else would I grow as a designer? However, getting frustrated over such a thing is trivial to me. Either way I plan on coming out of this thread with a greater understanding of design & plan on posting more in the future.

 

[SignManiac]

I stayed out of this thread because I could see you weren't willing to budge very much from your original design and nothing I could add would have improved it at all. My first impression was start over. Design cannot be forced to work if it has flaws in it. Being personally attached to a design just because you think it works can be detrimental to actually coming up with a better design if you're not willing to be flexible and keep an open mind.

I've seen this same scenario play out for many years here and by now, know how it will most likely end. I'm sure that with all of the designers we have here on this forum, a hundred original, great layouts using the same elements could have been created.

Take a look at the classroom assignments forum and look through some of those threads. You will see several examples of designs all working off of the same basic guidelines. All unique and saying pretty much the same thing. Every designer has a thought process to determine what needs to be prioritized and what colors and or graphics are effective for any given design.

That's my .02 worth.

 

[Pete Moss]

Oh c'mon now, here are a couple more. Still not flexible enough I suppose? Oh brother, I'm flexible. Wait, that sounded a little strange.

I feel as though I've expressed myself clearly. Not all is lost, I feel as though they are getting better and this thread has close to 1k views. Regardless, as I've said, I'm happy with the process and the design.

 

[qmr55]

Oh c'mon now, here are a couple more. Still not flexible enough I suppose? Oh brother, I'm flexible. Wait, that sounded a little strange.

I feel as though I've expressed myself clearly. Not all is lost, I feel as though they are getting better and this thread has close to 1k views. Regardless, as I've said, I'm happy with the process and the design.

Lets go with the one on the right, but you got two great pieces of advice that you completely disregarded. Your gradients are off in the background and your radiant burst is different on the top and bottom, which bothers me. Get rid of the burst on the bottom and do one gradient top to bottom ending in the middle and leaving only dark green on the bottom. Lose the red outline, as you did on the right one. Lets see that.

 

[Marlene]

when you do an out or inline, look for odd shapes that happen and edit them. in the first I marked a couple of areas that look off. in the second one with the black outline, I'd move the percent symbol up or would do it's own outline as it blends into the number as white on white where the two meet.

 

[Pete Moss]

gmr55- Hey, I can only do so much at a time here. I ran out of time again, I do plan on making another one as tiki suggested. Text blocked together more, with the same alignment. I'll re-read the past few comments more closely and will adjust as suggested!

What some of you probably don't realize is that I have been looking very closely at everything everyone has said and studied outside of here each aspect. It has either re-iterated what I've already learned or reminded me of some things I lost from school. Also, what you may not realize is that my work from here on out is going to be effected by this thread as these topics come up.

I feel like I am repeating myself here, but it's pretty cool the amount of response and views this thread has received. Maybe it's just the right amount controversy, who knows.

 

[SignManiac]

Given free reign, this would have been my approach. Same message, just a little bit tighter and I'm a huge proponent for the female species. Who says Santa is really a dude????

 

[SignManiac]

I should also add...This design approach would appeal more to the women who do the majority of shopping during the holidays so this is designed from a psychological and subliminal perspective. Guys will wait until the last second to go shopping. Plus.... a woman see the word sale and that's the push over the edge