Gerber Back-Cut ROCKS!

[Tim Aucoin]

Wanted to show off these (simple) little shape cut decals I just finished for a customer. They back-cut like a charm! I was actually surprised as to how accurate, fast and very clean the back-cut went. For those using Gerber/Envision and not using the back-cut feature... why not?!!

Oh, and on a side note... The pics were taken quickly with my iPhone 4S with iCloud enabled. About 20 seconds after taking them, they were "magically" on my desktop computer waiting for me to use! Very cool indeed!

 

[tomence]

That's a nice clean cut, also were they printed on your latex printer.

 

[CanuckSigns]

cool!
I don't have the envision plotter, or a new enough version of Omega to do this, but wouldn't this chew through blades and cutting strips very quickly?

 

[Tim Aucoin]

That's a nice clean cut, also were they printed on your latex printer.

No, these were printed on the Gerber Edge FX. White vinyl with Silver Metal foil.

cool!
I don't have the envision plotter, or a new enough version of Omega to do this, but wouldn't this chew through blades and cutting strips very quickly?

I carry 2 blade holders... one for front cut and one for back-cutting... and lots of spare blades (now that I've discovered GMS.com!!). I've back-cut maybe 50 jobs in the last 6-8 months and have yet to change a blade or strip. If the force is adjusted just right, and the blade depth is spot on, it doesn't wear them out too much at all!

Very nice Tim! I just finally upgraded to 4 and I'm going to try it out as soon as I get the chance! Sure saves cutting decals into singles the old fashioned way!

So what exactly gets "Tim's seal of approval".....?

You'll love it Pat! If you can, get a second blade holder. Graphic Marking Systems (out of Illinois) sells them at half of what I pay here (along with all other Gerber supplies, vinyls and foils). Who do you use for Gerber materials and supplies out your way now? My local supplier wanted $1300 for a 50yard roll of 280i Reflective. I ordered from GMS today for $630. Kind of a no-brainer!!!

"Tim's seal of approval"... that's funny! It's actually a customer from Sleeman's brewery named Tim. Not sure what he uses them for, but I did run a "few" extras for myself just in case I need to "approve" anything!

 

[slappy]

glad i read the post after first looking at the photos.. i thought you were going to start marking signs with "quality control" stickers

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Hey Tim, thanks for the tips, I'm excited to try this out!

We get our supplies from ND....and as I'm sure you know their pricing is a little steep, but they're a 3 minute drive away and have been great to us for the 15+ years my dad has dealt with them. That being said....if I can get Gerber supplies for half the price....that may change my mind!

So you just use an old 30 degree blade for the backcutting?

Yep... it seems to stay sharp for a long time when back cutting. I would imagine you'd need something a little sharper for back cutting intricate shapes though.

ND is my supplier here also. I'm sure they're the exclusive Gerber distributor here in Canada which is why their prices are so steep. I'm not bashing them at all, don't get me wrong. I purchase a lot from them other than Gerber now. Just trying to save ya a few bucks!
A couple for instances....
EnVision 45 degree blades (2 pack)
ND = $135 GMS = $55
EnVision Blade holder with blade
ND = $290 GMS = $156
Black Foil 91M
ND = $221 GMS = $135
Transparent Foils 15M
ND = $86 GMS = $44
Process Foils 45M
ND = $135 GMS = $74
Gerber ImageCast 50 yard roll
ND = $392 GMS = $182

Anyhow, those are some examples. If you place an order for multiple items, even with the shipping charge you will save substantially over time.

glad i read the post after first looking at the photos.. i thought you were going to start marking signs with "quality control" stickers

Hey... that's not a bad idea!!

 

[petepaz]

nice job!
i can't wait till i have to do that and thanks for the instruction on how to do it

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Wow, that's a huge price difference.

Thanks for the comparison, I'll definitely be looking into that place!!

Give Matt McGrath at GMS a call. He is very good to deal with, and extremely helpful!

 

[Tim Aucoin]

For all you guys using Gerbers, I've started another thread called "Estimate Software LOCKED". I am looking for ideas on methods of pricing out Gerber products (not pricing, but pricing methods). Any feedback would be appreciated!

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Thought I'd share another back-cut job printed on 3M 180i Reflective Sheeting. Obviously I had to adjust the cut forces, but worked like a charm! Back split for crack'n'peel also!

 

[J Hill Designs]

such a cool feature

 

[phatmanu812]

What thickness of vinyl are you using? I would think that 2 mil thick Scotchcal 220 is too flimsy to apply without application tape.

 

[GB2]

Tim, great inspirational photos for this process. This is something I've wanted to try doing before Gerber even thought of the idea but have never had the time to experiment with it. What version of Omega are you using for this? If I ever have to do any die cuttiing, which I do almost every day, I use my 54" Mimaki plotter but the Gerber process gives you the ability to back slit that you can't do any other way except manually.

 

[gabagoo]

Hey Tim, thanks for the tips, I'm excited to try this out!

We get our supplies from ND....and as I'm sure you know their pricing is a little steep, but they're a 3 minute drive away and have been great to us for the 15+ years my dad has dealt with them. That being said....if I can get Gerber supplies for half the price....that may change my mind!

So you just use an old 30 degree blade for the backcutting?

Drag that ND sales rep into your office and work on him over every product you need to buy from them.
They will give you much more competitive pricing...trust me. Not sure why it has to be done this way, but it worked for me.

When it comes to 3M reflective, they can be very competitive if you buy 15" perfed because it is a Gerber product and they can discount it much heavier than 3M...or so I was informed.

 

[JR's]

T3, do you have a phone # or a web address for GMS.

thanks
JR

 

[signage]

here

 

[Tim Aucoin]

What thickness of vinyl are you using? I would think that 2 mil thick Scotchcal 220 is too flimsy to apply without application tape.

I use pretty much anything! 220 works just fine (doing a 2,000 1" x 2" job today) and it's working well. Key thing is to make sure to leave enough room in-between decals for weeding ease. Sometimes I even "sacrifice" one row to add more space for ease of weeding. The time saved is well worth the sacrifice. I back cut 220, reflective, 3M SC50, Convex High Bond, etc... just need to adjust the blade depth & force accordingly to your vinyl and backer thickness. It is definitely a learned skill, but very, very doable!

Tim, great inspirational photos for this process. This is something I've wanted to try doing before Gerber even thought of the idea but have never had the time to experiment with it. What version of Omega are you using for this? If I ever have to do any die cuttiing, which I do almost every day, I use my 54" Mimaki plotter but the Gerber process gives you the ability to back slit that you can't do any other way except manually.

I am running Omega version 4. It's built right in to Gsp Plot under the "File" menu, "Back Cut".

T3, do you have a phone # or a web address for GMS.

thanks
JR

Hi JR,
Sure. Call Matt McGrath @ 1-800-232-8018. Please let him know who referred you! They are at www.shopgms.com

 

[jfiscus]

I'm not seeing the option in Omega GSPplot 2.51.
Must be a newer feature in 4. Would be quite nice to have!

Do you have to flip the file yourself for the crack-n-peel backs or create a seperate (cut only) file for this operation? Or does the software know what you're trying to do?

How do you get it aligned easily with the material flipped over? The 280 would be hella hard to see through.

 

[jfiscus]

For all you guys using Gerbers, I've started another thread called "Estimate Software LOCKED". I am looking for ideas on methods of pricing out Gerber products (not pricing, but pricing methods). Any feedback would be appreciated!

I cannot find this thread anywhere? Maybe it's in the members only area???
This link may help you: http://www.graphitek.com/gerber_edge_pricing.htm

 

[Suz]

Hey Tim, You get our Seal of Approval! Great info here. Now, do we send you something from a brewery? Ha!

 

[JR's]

Thanks

 

[phatmanu812]

With Tim's encouragement, I tried my first backcut on my envision 375 yesterday. My technique showed promise but still needs some work.

The backcut was not quite deep enough to separate the decals but apparently deep enough to show an impression on the front of the decal as a result of the slit cut. Decals were too close too. Maybe my blade wasn't sharp enough.

I'll give it another go.

 

[Thunder]

Tim those decals look great! A little envious about how easy it sounded for you to do them though haha ... I am new to the print / cut world and tried back-cut decals today for the first time with a little less success. I appreciate the advice on getting a second knife holder, that i'm sure would make a big difference for me.
I am using Omega 5.0 and Gerber GS15Plus. I set the job up using the GSPlot BackCut Dialog box as described in video : Custom Backcut - YouTube
But for some reason it did not cut the horizontal back slit even though I'd selected it in dialog box :
The cut through the paper liner was not deep enough either. But I'm still uncertain whether that would require more knife or more force (still new to me). I tested the knife blade depth by running it along the paper liner of the permagrip product i'm using (on top of a cutting mat) and it seemed to cut the paper but not the vinyl when i did this by hand, so maybe more force req'd? I have it at 2 and it is a relatively new knife.

The other thing i was unsure about was whether I should be pressing SWIVEL KNIFE mode or just INIT KNIFE before cutting the paperside/backside of the job.
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated

I'm also interested to check out the supplier you suggested GMS... thank you for that.

I haven't had a chance to set up my profile on here yet, but it looks like a great group. Lots of helpful tips. I need all i can get