Getting started as a hobby

[Joe Diaz]

I'm sure I've set some sort of record for inciting the longest newbie welcome thread in all of signs101.com history.

Actually not by a long shot.... LOL

welcome though!

Don't mind Gino, he must not have gotten enough fiber for breakfast this morning. :Big Laugh

 

[Bigdawg]

Stacy.......

You're turning this into something that I don’t think you realize you're doing. Then again, maybe you just want a confrontation of some sort. You’re making this personal and there’s nothing personal about getting into business.

I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm calling you out for the way you treat the new members of our board. Confrontation? Maybe. Not exactly the purpose... but if that's what it takes... I guess I'm all in.

With today’s level of entry into business bar being set as the internet, you are enabling anyone into anything. Sure, it’s good to venture into something you already know something about, but if you’re just gonna run with something, you should at least be prepared.

And how is inquiring on a sign board not trying to be prepared? Is it not a step in learning? Or are new signmaker's not allowed here until they can pass YOUR test... whatever that is.

Take classes, take business classes, learn hands on at a shop and most of all pay attention and be motivated or you’re doomed to fail within a year or so. You need to be able to face risks and then…. if you are in fact really wanting to learn the sign business, I’ll help. But when these people say they can’t afford to do this or that…. to me, they aren’t serious.

News flash - there aren't apprenticeship in sign shops much anymore... actually no sign shop in my area is even hiring. And for you to suggest a grown adult in this economy should work for free just to learn the trade the way YOU think they should is baloney. Most ADULTS have a family to support and a life to live. But to be okay in your eyes they should screw that all up because in your opinion - if they aren't dedicated enough to work for free - they just aren't serious. Baloney again.

And how do you know what their background is? The fact is YOU DON'T. You make a lot of assumptions about the newbies - and most of them are generally wrong. OP of this thread has a pretty serious daytime position... may even have a degree or two. But it's not up to YOU to decide they have to show it at the door to get in.

Today’s people want everything served to them on a silver platter. Nothing invested except a little part time fun. If it works they jump in, it if fails…. they didn’t lose a thing, except a little time invested. To me, that is not a serious person. They don’t have the aching feeling in their belly to be successful; they just have a little time invested. If they displease someone…. ah well, too bad, this is just a hobby.

YOUR OPINION... do you even understand the difference between that and facts? Sometimes I wonder.

We’re trying to better other professionals in our ranks. We want the best to keep going and those that only have a little time invested, well, too bad, they didn’t take it seriously and just fall through the cracks. This ain’t one of those no kid left behind programs. You must work for what you get here. Is it hard, yes, indeed.

So let me get this right. If they don't work for free and apprentice.. or show you their degree... or have enough "time" into the business... they can't be a professional. You have NO IDEA how much time someone has invested into learning when they post here. None. And you don't bother to even find out because...

they must not be a professional if they ask questions...

The part about having to start somewhere… is so ridiculously lame, it borders on a not worth a reply.

Of course everyone has to start somewhere. Is the internet the best way ?? Perhaps. You did it and many more here have done it, but were they dabbling… or already to some extent already in a form of the sign trade and just stretching their horizons ??

Welcome to the new reality of the internet Gino. The old days are gone and they aren't coming back. This is the way people learn these days.

Someone wanting to sell to their friends is like someone baking cakes and selling them at a fair. Once and done. Fine. No harm, no foul. Get a big head and want to make money at it and sell on a much bigger scale and these people don’t ask questions like, what licensing do I need…. what exams must I pass to make food for others to consume…… what do I have to do to make myself legal……. where do I find additional training or can I go to a culinary school for baking ??

No, all you get is :

• What size oven can I get without blowing myself up ??
• Where do you buy flour ??
• What proportions do I use if I wanna bake two cakes ??
• How do I cut back on the ingredients and still make something they will buy ??
• Where do you buy sugar ??
• Do I really need to let it cool down before icing it ?? The customer wants it right away.... I think it will work.
• Do I really have to get a bigger circuit breaker for this big stove ??
• How much can I charge and still undercut all the other bakeries in town ??
• What size spatula should I get, or since I already have a spoon.... can I use that instead ??
• Should I buy a Dunkin’ Donuts or just buy wholesale ??
• Can you actually make money doing this 6 hours a week…. my other job is doggie grooming and I can’t have an oven in the backroom because there seems to be too much doggie hair going down the drain clogging it and when those things need to be unclogged, the commotion it creates…..my cake will fall.
• Can I sell a flop cake ??
• How much can I get for that ??

Oh……… what oh what should I do ??

And don't give me any negative responses..... I don't need the extra pressure.​

That didn't make a whole lot of sense... but that's okay.

Here's a thought. You don't like the questions?

Don't post.

Easy as that.

 

[signmeup]

I learned to make signs on the internet. I learned to gild on the internet. I learned to carve from books. Almost every skill I have I taught myself either through reading books or on the internet. From a very young age my parents drilled into my head that I could learn to do anything from books. (We didn't have the internet 50 years ago)

I fix my own cars (even the brakes...... gasp!). I built my own house. (Designed it myself. Even did the wiring and plumbing.... gasp!)

I find the current lack of skills in the general population today to be alarming. I find the hostility towards newcomers to this site sad.

 

[SignManiac]

This is my take on the matter and partially posted on a previous thread. I could care less myself about anyone entering the business. Nothing will stop someone who is determined and if you feel that threatened by beginners, then you better step up your game. This industry has no protection and it's a free country still. The majority here had to start somewhere, even I did. I bought a book and read it. Things are different today, where's that magic easy button?

However, if somebody in my town comes in and ask me to help them start a competing business, well you can guess what my colorful response is going to be.

Everyone here may as well get use to it. Even if non professionals don't happen to find this site, there will always be a constant influx of people trying to get in this business, with or without our help. There's no stopping it. It's technologies fault for making it so easy.

I have contributed a crap load to this site and don't mind helping legitimate professionals. I can tell who is not in this business to earn a living and I simply choose not to answer and help any of those post. Most of the time I try to be helpful and not an ass, but sometimes I digress and say something I might not have ought to, but hey, I'm human and have the occasional off day too. Get over it. What's that childhood saying about sticks and stones??

Part of the problem I see here is all the PC (political correctness) crap lately. I'm not one to be overly sensitive to everyone's emotional vulnerabilities. I see it all the time with design critiques. If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen. If you want to be in this business then you better have thick skin. Some are better at sugar coating their responses, I tend to suck in that area. My time is valuable and if I'm giving it away to help somebody, don't expect to get it with a smile on my face.

I think Signs 101 should consider dropping the rules about being professionals and let everybody and their relatives come here to learn. Just because they don't register, doesn't mean they don't lurk. Just look at the bottom and see how many guests are here compared to members. It's not like they can hurt this industry anyway. It's already in the toilet as far as I'm concerned. If you're good, you will survive in this business. If not, then you'll be looking at the next easy get rich quick business opportunity.

 

[Bigdawg]

Thanks for posting signmaniac...

You HAVE contributed a lot. And I personally appreciate that there are times you simply don't post because you don't see the person asking as a professional. Really that's all I'd like to see.

And yep - we are all human. Lord knows I've apologized for a buttload of things I've posted... sometimes that happens.

It's not so much political correctness I'm looking for... I have no issue with telling someone their design sucks or that they are doing something the wrong way.

But to jump on a new member simply because he's a new member? And hasn't yet presented the "street cred" y'all want doesn't mean they aren't seriously trying to learn the business. The other thread you mentioned is a prime example... the guy had dealt in cut vinyl and was making the jump to digital. What part of that is not professional? Those are the things that get me.

This is not a nice place sometimes. And it doesn't have to be. Thick skin is a must in this business without a doubt. But to take abuse simply for abuses' sake isn't necessary.

How will there be a new generation of sign-makers? There won't be... well there will be, but they'll suck... because those that know... those that HAD to learn it the old way... don't want to translate that into today's technologies or learning environment.

You are right. If you are good - you'll survive. If you aren't then there's really nothing for the established ones to worry about..

 

[fmg]

Ahhh what's the matter Gino You seem a bit quiet now that someone has shut u up.You think you are always right and your patronizing welcome from PA greeting everytime someone poses a question without introducing themselves.
I fear your time is up here sunshine on this forum and suggest you retire to the oldies section where you can moan and grump all day cos that's how you come across ...A grumpy ol man!
P.S Welcome from CT!

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Ahhh what's the matter Gino You seem a bit quiet now that someone has shut u up.You think you are always right and your patronizing welcome from PA greeting everytime someone poses a question without introducing themselves.
I fear your time is up here sunshine on this forum and suggest you retire to the oldies section where you can moan and grump all day cos that's how you come across ...A grumpy ol man!
P.S Welcome from CT!

I gotta step in here... I just can't sit back and let you call Gino grumpy... or patronizing! He is older than me though... (I think!!) :Big Laugh

This is quite the interesting thread. I agree with both sides and am quite relieved that I'm not a newbie on here lately! I really think it's just the way some posts are worded, and I feel that (most) of these new people posting mean no malice. It's tough posting your first post to ANY forum, but this one is the toughest I've seen (lately).

WG... choose to take the responses how you will, but the true measure of how much you want to learn is whether or not you stick around and learn! It's easy to simply join, lurk around, read, search and learn... but in a lot of cases, it takes a mighty huge set to actually post on here for the first time. Keep your back up and welcome from Calgary, Alberta!

 

[OutlawsLimited]

Business must be slow for Gene.

 

[Raulrdz]

Now my two cents worth...first of all welcome aboard...I think.
I guess in my view of defining hobby from professional is...
1. Do profits matter to you? Are you concerned with the bottom line?
2. Are you reporting your income and losses to the IRS?
3. Do you have a sales permit from your local jurisdiction?
4. Do you have a sales tax permit?
5. Do you have legitimate customers?
6. Do you have a legit business name (DBA, LLC, etc.)

If you can answer yes to the above questions then your a professional if not...I guess your a hobbiest. I am a part-timer, but I can answer yes to all of the above! I care about my profit margin, about being fair in pricing with my competitors, and about how much I spend on my own stuff.

Again, just my 2cents worth, and giving you the benefit of the doubt...welcome!

 

[miguelon.lizarraga]

I've been looking into that as well! Thanks!

He was being sarcastic.

 

[miguelon.lizarraga]

I make signs. It's my hobby. I make money making signs. I do my hobby professionally. Made over 275k last year. Expensive hobby I guess.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

i dont know the answer(s) there is much being discussed here. but what i would like to say is that there are many extremely skilled signmen and women who will not post at signs101 or have stopped or severely limited their participation because of educating their competition, or hobbiests, or doofuses..or they dont want to get caught up in stuff like this because there is no way you aren't going to fling a little mud or get a little on you. and to me that is sad. i'm not trying to toot my own horn with what i am going to say next,i am struggling to find the words because i know what i am going to say is going to come out wrong..so cut me a little slack. i am talkign about the caliber of people that I call when I am stumped on an issue...those people. and in my opinion we all are losing when those ppl are choosing not to participate.

This site has changed tremendously over the years but lately it seems to have undergone another evolution recently and i hope that we see another one soon so we can move out of this current one.

 

[Sticky Signs]

Sounds like another one of them thar terrorists.
JK - welcome and I hope you find the help your looking for.

 

[sos224]

you guys are scary

When I re-entered the sign business along with my son and daughter in law, I found the technology had changed in the past years. I got out 10 years ago not wanting to invest in the new print technology. Getting back in has been a challege, I am older, things have changed - coral draw sucks! BUT looking around the internet for answers, I found this site. It has been a great source of information, but to be honest I am a little afraid to ask a question since I am a "newbee". Some of you are pretty hard on the new guys. I do say "welcome to all who are looking for answers".

"this too shall pass"

 

[Joe Diaz]

- coral draw sucks!

ahhhh man!!! Don't make me go Gino on you. :ROFLMAO:

 

[SignManiac]

Yea, all of my work is done in Corel and it's pretty hack. I think I need to go back to Microsoft paint.

 

[greenmachine]

I would like to know Fred's response to this thread. He has been very quiet on it!

 

[SignManiac]

Fred has an uncanny ability to step in only when it really becomes necessary. I'm sure he has many more important things going on in the background. Most of the time, these little spats run their course in due time.

 

[buttons]

Absolutely K-G... and the original post coulda, woulda, shoulda been worded a little more artfully. I understand that.

But it's not just this thread. Take a read around the newbie posts and you'll see a recurring theme. I talk to a lot of people on this board - newbies, oldies and some that just read and don't post. EVERY SINGLE one of them has mentioned at some point that this board is very unfriendly to newcomers.

I hate to admit it but they are right.

And I do understand not wanting a fly-by-night to be your competition... but the truth is not every new person is a fly by night. Some are here to actually learn the right way.

But they seemingly all get painted with the same brush.

I don't know the answer - we screen the members carefully - and my point to Gino was that HE doesn't see those forms... he doesn't know how long they've been at it OR their stated intent when they join.

There was a thread about a sign warehouse package deal the the same crap went down in. Guy asks about digital printing... assumptions are made that he has no clue as to what he's doing... when in reality he'd been in the sign business for years - just not the digital end.

So that's why I'm on my little rant here... I want the kinder, gentler Signs 101 back... the one that helped instead of slamming without gathering the facts...

When I first joined a month or so back I read through the newbie forum.... I saw a bunch of very harsh replies and decided against making a "welcome me" thread of my own. I decided to just lurk, search and read until I found the answers I wanted. I too do this as a "hobby" making decals for friends (car, RC, small signs) and am interested in one day taking it further. This forum has helped me very much but I rarely post for fear of harsh unvalidated comments from certain members.

 

[iSign]

When I first joined a month or so back I read through the newbie forum.... I saw a bunch of very harsh replies and decided against making a "welcome me" thread of my own. I decided to just lurk, search and read until I found the answers I wanted. I too do this as a "hobby" making decals for friends (car, RC, small signs) and am interested in one day taking it further. This forum has helped me very much but I rarely post for fear of harsh unvalidated comments from certain members.

another terrorist... get him!!!