Gun threads

[Gino]

Fred, that was over 217 years later. It was made law, but does not mean it's been interpreted rightly or wrongly.

That was from the same source I was using, I believe. I was in the area of what was originally believed to be the meaning, not what has taken place 200 some years later. You were in the Civilian section, while I was in the Military AND Civilian section.

 

[cajun312]

Anyone following the random act of stupidity done by the New York Journal? They posted the names and addresses of all registered gun owners in the area.

My very first thought when I saw it (and it's posted on a map, not just a list) is "Now the criminals know who doesn't have registered guns". You just took their chances from 50/50 to something way higher.

So the intent was to name and shame gun owners and now the result will more than likely be that those not on the list will experience a higher than normal count on crimes.

Nice job, morons!

I saw that on the news, really crazy. They even have an interactive map on the newspaper web site. Now someone has come out with the same type of map showing where all the employees of that newspaper live.

 

[John Butto]

Gino and Fred sound like Clinton when he was giving us the meaning of a sexual relationship.

 

[David Wright]

What I find amusing about the arguments against guns is that of all gun related deaths (including accidental) the numbers don't remotely touch deaths by doctors, cigarettes, drug abuse, auto accidents, etc separately.

Exactly the real travesty in this country. Raise the legal driving age to 21, suspend drivers licenses and put real teeth behind the enforcement for abusers of the laws, felons, drunks etc.

Not that I really want that but I'm following the mindset of gun controllers.

 

[OldPaint]

1791
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
2012
a well regulated militia:
THE ARMY, THE NAVY, THE AIR FORCE, MARINES, NATIONAL GUARD, ARMY, NAVY, MARINE RESERVES ..............
being necessary to the security of a free State!
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed?
it already has been many times. YOU OR I CANNOT have many of the weapons that the ARMED FORCES HAVE. taking away one more weapon civilians SHOULD NOT HAVE..... is not going to eliminate ALL GUNS.

 

[tsgstl]

What I find amusing about the arguments against guns is that of all gun related deaths (including accidental) the numbers don't remotely touch deaths by doctors, cigarettes, drug abuse, auto accidents, etc separately.

Why would that be amusing?
cigarettes and drug abuse are self inflected
doctors? Well not sure what the numbers are there but modern medicine is responsible for millions of lives saved every year.
auto accidents are a huge problem but there is regulations and laws changed regularly to address it, far more than gun control. If there is a wiff of a manufacture defect causing injury it is addressed severely. There are speed limits, human and vehicle tests for safety, random dui checkpoints. Now that you mention it maybe you are on to something. We should have yearly or even bi-yearly physical exams for gun and their owners. And random check points at ranges and hunting spots during gun season to check sobriety and legal status of current guns.

 

[FrankW]

Why would that be amusing?
cigarettes and drug abuse are self inflected
doctors? Well not sure what the numbers are there but modern medicine is responsible for millions of lives saved every year.

auto accidents are a huge problem ...

There are a lot of things where we live with the risk because they are very useful for us: driving a car, flying with a plane and so on. Weapons in private households have a really huge disproportion between use and risk, in opposite of cars, planes and so on.

Some people in switzerland who are "amused" too about the arguments against weapons have checked out the kitchen knife as a target: if forbidding guns in households they should forbid kitchen knifes too because kitchen knifes could be used for killing too. No eye on the balance between use and risk.

Some of this "amusing" things will show that this people not really understand what they say.

 

[Marlene]

A well regulated Militia,

we were always taught that was a state guard/militia so that if the feds came into a state to attack it, the state would have its own military. in ww2, my dad was too young to join up but was old enough to join the state guard. I think we still have one but it isn't something most hear about. it is a militia in the way our forefathers difined it.

Anyone following the random act of stupidity done by the New York Journal? They posted the names and addresses of all registered gun owners in the area.

My very first thought when I saw it (and it's posted on a map, not just a list) is "Now the criminals know who doesn't have registered guns". You just took their chances from 50/50 to something way higher.

I saw that too and couldn't believe they did that. my first thought wasn't the same as yours, I thought "Oh crap, now those out to make someone pay for this shooting in conn have addresses"

What I find amusing about the arguments against guns is that of all gun related deaths (including accidental) the numbers don't remotely touch deaths by doctors, cigarettes, drug abuse, auto accidents, etc separately

there always is someone who says but cars kill too etc. natural old age causes more deaths than guns do, of course so why not give up talking about this. you can't compare cars, drugs doctors and such to this as it is not the same. point for point on each of your list isn't needed as I don't remember the last time someone grabbed a doctor, went to a mall and used him to kill a bunch of people. when a person gets into their car, they aren't intended to drive until they can hit 26 people and kill them, they are just going to the store and have an accident. there is no intent involved in any of the ways to kill/die with maybe cigarettes as we know they can cause death but not on the first puff. drugs? they are out to kill people with that either. when was the last time a person lighted up with the intent to kill 26 people by smoking a bowl?

 

[mnapuran]

And how does the value of intent vs self-inflicted vs accidental matter to the cost of human life? Human life lost is human life lost....

And what about all the lives saved using guns? Not a stat that's as easily tracked, and definitely not talked about by the liberal media, etc.

 

[mnapuran]

BTW..... here's the crazy lady's proposal - http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons

 

[Bigcat_hunter]

That bill would make all grandfathered weapons to be treated as NFA, meaning you would have to register basically any semi auto anything, pay the $200.00 tax stamp per gun and get a four to six month background check before you could legally own the guns you already own.

If you don't do that you are instantly a felon. Its unreal the lengths these people will go to take your rights. If this happens there will probably 70 to 80 million instant felons in America.

 

[tsgstl]

And how does the value of intent vs self-inflicted vs accidental matter to the cost of human life? Human life lost is human life lost....

And what about all the lives saved using guns? Not a stat that's as easily tracked, and definitely not talked about by the liberal media, etc.

Is that really the argument you are using? I admit I am only assuming from your words but are you saying that the life of someone who takes drugs and overdoses is equal to the life of a innocent murdered child?
And you keep using examples of things that we regularly change laws and try to fix. The NRA isn't willing to do anything to try and fix the problem, oh wait they are trying to convince us all we need more guns, my bad

And to your second point, nobody is trying to get rid of all guns. Just some of these incredibly high powered guns that carry significant numbers of bullets.
Nobody cares if we regulate someone from building pipe bombs or bazookas or RPG's these all seem like things that "should" be protected under the second amendment?

I always hear the argument how controlling doesn't ever work. Yeah now that there is so many out there, if it ALWAYS was banned then we would not have to have this discussion. In 100 years if we change things now then we could cross it off of our list of how we are increasingly screwing things up for future generations.

 

[megacab]

Is that really the argument you are using? I admit I am only assuming from your words but are you saying that the life of someone who takes drugs and overdoses is equal to the life of a innocent murdered child?

Assuming from your words, you are saying one life is more important than another? Wow. I would hope that if the drug addict was your son or daughter you would feel differently. Especially since the mantra of the left about drug addiction is it is a disease.

And to your second point, nobody is trying to get rid of all guns. Just some of these incredibly high powered guns that carry significant numbers of bullets.

so if the shooter in CT had 10 round mags, how many could he have changed out in the 20 minutes it took for the police to get there? ALOT! The number of bullets in the magazine have little to do with the amount of people dead. it takes a second or less to change out the mag. How did the AWB work out for the 12 dead in Columbine? You see, no matter whether something is legal or not, criminals will always get what they want. The AWB only kept guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. The real crime will start once a newer, tougher AWB is re-enstated. Instead of running weed and cocaine across the border, isn't that stuff illegal also?, the cartels will be running guns to the criminals. I'm sure that'll help all of us sleep better at night

 

[Si Allen]

Let's face it ... anti gun is an emotional thing and reason does not come into play!

The thing to remember is that then end result of gun control is ...

 

[tsgstl]

your right, he could of changed out clip after clip and unloaded on those kids with a old small caliber hand gun. And in this case it might not of made a bit of difference but in a lot of situations it would make a huge difference. If I face a hand gun I am much more likely to try and over power the shooter. If it is a assault weapon that has large clips I will be looking for the nearest exit. I am not basing my opinions on these rare incidents. The gun problem is a much larger issue that especially in more urban areas needs addressing. A lot of country folk want to turn there back on these issues because they are "not in my backyard"

I try to be a logical thinker I try to see every angle, everything is not black or white this is not a gun problem only or a mental issue only. So many try and put blame on one thing or another. And it is certainly not a thing were we don't try and fix it because "well they will just get it another way" Why cant we address guns always, re adjust things now and see what needs fixing in a year and the next and the next.
We have a problem here and making excuses because other things do this or that just seems like the wrong way to go about it.

Other countries think of us as greedy and ignorant and selfish. Maybe this is true and that is the reason for our current world dominance. Maybe I am wrong and the connection between our out of wack gun violence is directly related to our success as a nation. Maybe if removing these instruments that kill large quantities of people causes us to lose that freedom that we were promised it will also cause us to be more like the countries that don't have these statistics. I don't know all of the answers but I have to think of things logically.


Edit: the assault thing is just one part of what needs to be fixed. Better background checks, holding people accountable for where their guns end up or who they kill, etc etc

 

[CES020]

The gun problem is a much larger issue that especially in more urban areas needs addressing. A lot of country folk want to turn there back on these issues because they are "not in my backyard"

Maybe you should think about why urban areas have this problem, rather than taking away things from people that don't have that problem. You could write a library full of books about why inner city children are failing in almost every possible measurement. Do you think people that have nothing, and don't see any hope for the future turn to violence and crime? Do you see no correlation between what's happening there and the problem you're mentioning?

For decades these children have been ignored. Their family unit has been destroyed, they have no leadership in their life, their role models are drug dealers, yet you think that's a "gun" problem? That's about as far as a stretch as one could make.

Address the root of the problem and the vast majority of this entire discussion goes away. However, it has nothing to do with solving the problem. It has everything to do with money, power, and politics. Solving the problem is easy. Getting that solution into action through politicians will never happen.

Most all problems can be solved. However, you need to solve the root of the problem. I don't think I've seen one single person in the media talk about solving the problem. I've not brainstormed about it, but my gut tells me the root of the problem is economics. If those in the inner city made decent wages,got good educations, and had good opportunities, my guess is that the number that turn to the dark side would seriously diminish. But, we don't talk about that. We talk about everything but that.

 

[Gino]

CES.........

You make a lot of sense and your ideas have been tried over the years and have failed miserably..... anyway in our area they have failed terribly.

I don't know about your area, but in my neck of the woods, we have several things taking our once.... fine city, down the drain.

We tend to be a hub for New York, Philly and D.C. Most of the trouble comes from those areas since we are centrally located and within an hour or two of these three. Many do their trading, funning and shooting in our town and then return to their own with little violence in their own town. This has been going on for decades. It's basically a war zone in the warmer months and I've been in circles of people who claim we are going to take our town back. It's never even got close. The people have become so numb to this violence, it's almost like walking down the streets in some foreign country at war, except they speak 'Spanglish'. Kids here are carrying, the inner city misfits number well into the 1,000's and there is no one around to pay taxes. Therefore, everything suffers. You can see huge.... and I mean mountains of trash on the sidewalks. There are 10 and 12 year olds I don't even want to look in the eye. These kids have absolutely no future, unless they move completely away. I would never walk in any of the areas of town where I used to live as a kid. It's all ghetto and a war zone.

You talk about solving or addressing the problem ?? Ha, that's a big laugh, too. It's basically drugs and bad family values [or none at all] and what are they starting to do ?? Legalize drugs, so the government can start to make profit from our core problem.

I'm afraid, the America as we know it... anyway in my vicinity, hasn't got a snowball's chance in H*ll of coming back around. No one cares enough to really make it happen. It's kinda like our pharmaceutical industry.... let's pretend everyone's sick, sell them legal drugs, make money and not worry about treating any core problems, just the symptoms and make it look like we care. Well, the Government is now seeing the profit there and is following suit.

 

[CES020]

CES.........

You make a lot of sense and your ideas have been tried over the years and have failed miserably..... anyway in our area they have failed terribly.

Gino, I'm not offering any real ideas to solve anything, what I'm suggesting is that if one WANTED to solve this problem them it could be fairly easily solved. I don't know the solution because I haven't be tasked to help with a solution. My suggestion is nothing more than saying the entire discussion on the front page news has nothing to do with solving the problem. I only offered up a "thought" on the issue, not so much a real solution.

I would imagine this issue has been traced to the root cause by many people far smarter than me, but I suspect they didn't get far with it. One group doesn't have a clue on how to effectively reach into some communities and the other group fears if the problem is solved, then they can't manipulate the people any longer. So it's in neither of their best interest to see the problem solved.

But make no mistake, this problem can be solved, and the solution has nothing to do with what's being proposed.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

CES.........

You make a lot of sense and your ideas have been tried over the years and have failed miserably..... anyway in our area they have failed terribly.

No matter how well the idea is conceived and implemented, if the people that its intended to help aren't behind it, it will fail.

I truly think that there are some (actually most (atleast 51%)) that don't want that type of help. I can understand one set of reasoning why that would be the case. I personally wouldn't be like that, but I can understand the motivation as to why they would be. Other reasoning could just be way out there and we probably would never understand it.

Some of it could be, because those that are trying to help aren't able to reach those people, but some don't want to be reached period.

 

[Gino]

Gino, I'm not offering any real ideas to solve anything, what I'm suggesting is that if one WANTED to solve this problem them it could be fairly easily solved. I don't know the solution because I haven't be tasked to help with a solution. My suggestion is nothing more than saying the entire discussion on the front page news has nothing to do with solving the problem. I only offered up a "thought" on the issue, not so much a real solution.

I would imagine this issue has been traced to the root cause by many people far smarter than me, but I suspect they didn't get far with it. One group doesn't have a clue on how to effectively reach into some communities and the other group fears if the problem is solved, then they can't manipulate the people any longer. So it's in neither of their best interest to see the problem solved.

But make no mistake, this problem can be solved, and the solution has nothing to do with what's being proposed.

I wasn't making fun of you at all. You have hit the proverbial nail on the head. It is all about eduction and forcing ourselves to look at the core problems and stop treating symptoms like gun control, arming teachers or legalizing drugs. We're just creating more problems. We need to rid ourselves of the cancer eating away at our children and family values. We need tough love and a lot of it. We need to stop being so Politically Correct. We need to start disciplining these children and many of the adults who have been raised totally wrong. The state cannot do it with the state it is in..... We the people must do it and get our representatives to start representing goodness and family value, not back-door politics and crying every-time you can't get your way.

The American Dream is broken and we need to repair it. As you said, we can fix it, but it will take a long time to fix what we've built over the last 200 years and have managed to butcher in the last 50. We ALL need to band together and get our priorities straight. Then, we can begin healing and fixing things.