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Gun threads

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signage

New Member
FMG, I didn't sign any petition, I as a born and raised American am sick and tired of foreigners trying to change this country. They come hear and want us to speak and use their language, rather than learn than learn English. They want us to not celebrate holidays because they don't like them. but they want to gain wealth the American way!
As to the Americans fascination with guns, maybe it is the survival aspect, you need to eat so get natural food, rather than what is fed to the live stock to make them grow quicker.
 

Bly

New Member
I find this debate fascinating as an interested outsider.
If I lived there I would own and carry a gun if possible, no doubt about it.
Here I don't feel the need because I don't worry about every other idiot out there being armed.
Sure we get bashed and stabbed to death but hey that's human nature. :smile:
We do have gun deaths too but usually they are targeted hits by crime gang members so the average joe doesn't feel threatened by them so much.
My sister is married to an ex US army officer and has just moved back to the US so I do have a personal interest.
In fact she was attacked while jogging there years ago and he trained her all up to use a pistol. They lived here for a few years - he was shocked he wasn't able to even have a shotgun at home.
I guess it's the culture you grow up with yeah?

An Aussie friend has lived in the States for a long time now. Married an American girl, had a few kids.
Owns guns and basically loves the lifestyle and the freedoms there and doesn't want to leave but offered this insight after the recent school shootings.

Schools here now look like prisons.
My boys all went to the same primary school their Mum did.Nice little old school it was.
It got demolished and a new one was built,no windows to the outside world and a double locked entrance like a jail.
Their high school is the same,if you drove around it and missed the sign saying it was a school you would never know.
The land of freedom is a joke.They're slowly destroying themselves.

Sounds a bit sad but there's no putting the toothpaste back in the tube now.
You have to deal with an armed populace so no point crying about it.

To FMG. It was actually the riots in London last year that really made me want to get a pump action shotty or large calibre pistol to protect my home and family.
Unfortunately self protection isn't a valid reason to own such a weapon here.
Even if there's a large public housing estate 1km down the road..
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
the fasination between guns and americans.........SIMPLY. 3 answers.
1. people enjoy hunting and killing animals.
2. people live in fear of being killed.


Part of that is human nature (survival instinct). Some may argue that it is obsolete now and that may be true, however, the amount of time that it took to instill that instinct into us, dwarfs how long it's been obsolete.

However, I will add this. I live out in the country, I've had to kill predators that would have attacked my livestock (horses and alpacas). There are others that have to do the same to protect theirs, otherwise predators will get ahold of them. Now while that does not directly affect you, it does indirectly. Even if you don't consume meat from livestock, you have the fiber animals that could be affected (Alpacas, Sheep etc).

There is a need for some type of arms out there, I can promise you there is not way to teach predatory animals not to attack livestock and to just go after other predatory animals. That type of need is still very much a need in today's world.

Now assault rifles and all that is another can of worms entirely, but the blanket no guns whatsoever, that posses a problem, especially for the scenario above. For those that advocate no guns for all private individuals (regardless of the type of gun) that could have externalities that you can't think of right away (like the one I mentioned that would directly affect me and others and indirectly affect those that consume products that are produced from those livestock (rather food or fiber or entertainment depending on the livestock).
 

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
The problem here is that there are simply too many of us. Partisanship and organized special interests makes finding solutions virtually impossible. Common sense no longer rules and any attempt by leaders to offer solutions is met by opposition pointing out the ways it will not work. Yet we continue to seek absolute solutions to issues where only partial solutions exist.

When was the last time government did something that would be hailed as nearly great in its benefits to U.S. citizens? Winning World War II perhaps or building the interstate highway system. Ending segregation and discrimination. Not so much since then.

Even those endeavors have their critics.

The last 50 years have brought us lots of bad and ill conceived ideas as our size and our expectations have grown while our ability to govern and find solutions has diminished. The result has been a strengthening of big everything from government to business etc. as our trust in anything and everything has eroded. Our food, water, air, and manufactured goods are all contaminated while our expectation is that the government will provide solutions and protect us. Our individual safety from crime cannot be expected either. Yet our government seems only capable of providing wars that don't work out, foreign policy that results in making enemies out of many, social engineering that results in economic bubbles that keep bursting, and Ponzi schemes doomed to fail at some point.

The predictable response by many is to pull back and look out for one's own best interests. Acquiring firearms thus becomes understandable.

T'is true, t'is sad ... T'is sad, t'is true.
 

Marlene

New Member
FMG, I didn't sign any petition, I as a born and raised American am sick and tired of foreigners trying to change this country. They come hear and want us to speak and use their language, rather than learn than learn English. They want us to not celebrate holidays because they don't like them. but they want to gain wealth the American way!
As to the Americans fascination with guns, maybe it is the survival aspect, you need to eat so get natural food, rather than what is fed to the live stock to make them grow quicker.

wow, so you are a Native American? unless you are, you come from foreigners. those foreigners brought with them the very customs and beliefs we have here today. just what holidays do these evil foreigners not want to celibrate? I must have missed meno. as far as guns getting us back to natural food, how does an assault rifle work for that? seems like this went way off topic blaming foreigners.
 

Bigcat_hunter

New Member
how many cows, pigs and chickens did you kill last year with your ASSAULT RIFLE???HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Do you mean how many deer, wild boars, coyotes, sage rats, bobcats, fox etc have you killed with your assault rifle?

We leave the cow, pig and chicken killing to the slaughter houses. There is a huge hunting industry based on AR-15 style rifles and tons of people hunt with them.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
wow, so you are a Native American? unless you are, you come from foreigners.

That's true even of Native Americans if you go far enough back.

However, being a 6th generation Native Texan, I don't really refer to myself as Welsh-Irish-German American. I'm too far removed from that point of my family history.

German and American history and cultural identity would have been more alike back then, but once you have a couple hundred years of divergent history, that culture changes.




those foreigners brought with them the very customs and beliefs we have here today.

They have slightly changed over the years to fit the differences of the cultures that have come out of living here versus the Motherland. There are commonalities, I won't dispute that, but there are differences as well and those differences came about with a different history of living here.


Think of it this way, majority of us are here in America, but within each different region there are ever so slight differences in the cultural identity due to the history there. Ranging from accents to history. No reason why that wouldn't apply from other countries as well.
 

Marlene

New Member
Think of it this way, majority of us are here in America, but within each different region there are ever so slight differences in the cultural identity due to the history there. Ranging from accents to history. No reason why that wouldn't apply from other countries as well.

true, there are big differences all ove this country depending who settled where. I live in Vermont and my family came over as they were stone masons and worked in granite over in Barre. a lot of people from Italy came over to VT for the same reason. that aside, I didn't think the attack on foreigners in another post was fair or just. how they got in on this I'm not sure. it may be because some non-Americans posted in the thread and it might have been a direct slam against them. I didn't like it, plain and simple.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
...I am in full support of military and police to carry weapons to protect.I don't agree with citizens carrying firearms.

While I'm uncertain of just how things might be there in Mother England, here in the USofA the police** are under no obligation to protect anyone. They exist to enforce the law and not provide any sort of personal protection of the sort to which you allude. They are unable to see into the future to see how things will play out unless they act.

This principle has been unequivocally decided by the supreme court in a fairly recent decision. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Otherwise some mechanism like that conjectured in the movie 'Minority Report' would have to exist in order to predict the future. With that mechanism in place someone could be arrested before they commit a crime if the swami's crystal ball indicates that unless an arrest is made, the probability of the crime happening is 1. With a little thought even a slow witted third grader can see, if not the paradox, at least the contradiction inherent in this.

Thus if your neighbor threatens you, unless the act of threatening itself is illegal AND there exists some actual evidence beyond hearsay, there is nothing that law enforcement can do to help you.Legally.

**The term 'police' is used here as a generic term meaning police, sheriff, highway patrol, and any and all other forms of constabulary short of the military. The latter is enjoined from participating in law enforcement except when martial law has been lawfully declared. Even then the military is charged with enforcing the martial law itself, not enforcing local ordinances.

It has been said, many time recently, that when seconds matter the police are minutes away. That being the case, it's up to the individual to deal with threats and whatever until such time that some law or another is actually broken or it's immediate and obvious that a law is about to be broken. That's called 'law enforcement' in these waters.

How to deal with such situations? The optimum solution is to construct an environment around you in which the situation would be hard pressed to occur. Something like demonstrating the possession and the will to use firearms. Not the only solution but still a perfectly valid and sound solution. It's long been held that the scariest sound in the world is that of someone racking the slide on a pump shotgun in the dark. The sound is unmistakable.
 

OldPaint

New Member
I HAVE TO SAY IT THIS WAY.....where do you come up with this crap?
There is a huge hunting industry based on AR-15 style rifles and tons of people hunt with them.
IF SO........what purpose do you need a semi auto assault rifle with 30-90 round mag??? PEOPLE HUNT WITH THEM???? i want some of what you smokin)))))
i was an avid all seasons PENNA HUNTER, before they made it law you had to wear that stupid orange vest so the "idiots" in the woods with guns, who cant tell a deer from a cow or person, didnt shoot you. even then..........IF YOU HAD SEMI AUTO hunting rifle...........5 ROUNDS WAS MAX, you could have in the rifle at any time!!!!!!!
so again i ask, why do you need an assault rifle and 30-90 round mags? most of the people i hunted with(we actually hunted, not sittin a tree stand and ambushing deer when they came to the corn you put out to attract them)30.06, 303, 308, 30-30, 35, 7.62 & shotgun with slugs. and most times a deer was killed.....IT WAS WITH 1 SHOT!!!! so again i ask, why do you need an assault rifle with 30-90 round mag???
and i have to say it this way..............IF YOUR THAT BAD A SHOT, you need 30-90 rounds to hit anything........WHY DO YOU EVEN OWN A GUN???
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
...so again i ask, why do you need an assault rifle and 30-90 round mags?...

You figure that someone cannot possess an otherwise lawful firearm unless they justify their 'need' to you? To the authorities? To whom? More importantly, why should anyone have to satisfy anyone else as to need?

Moreover what, exactly, is an 'assault' rifle? How does an 'assault' rifle differ from a non-assault rifle? Does does an 'assault' rifle function in some way different than a non-assault rifle? Do you not hold one end and have bullets come out the other end?

Perhaps an 'assault' rifle, identical in function to a non-assault rifle, merely looks different. Does all that vicious looking flat black metal and plastic perform some unique function that differs from a non-assault rifle?

Does the magazine capacity on an 'assault' rifle differ from a non-assault rifle's magazine of identical capacity? Does an 'assault' riffle accept magazines of higher capacity the non-assault rifles can accept?

Please define 'assault' rifle such that the definition includes all firearms that are 'assault' rifles and excludes all firearms that are not 'assault' rifles.
 

OldPaint

New Member
NOTE TO BOB: no other hunting rifle or weapon has 30-90 round magazines!!!! semi auto hunting rifle, max maybe 7 rounds in clip/tube. shotguns semi auto, pump, none i know of has more then a 7-8 magazine capacity.
HENCE THE TERM ASSAULT RIFLE!!!
its only purpose is to spread as much lead as the magazine will hold in the shortest amout of time.
ALSO....... assault weapons are created to FULLY AUTO, the one sold to civilians are mechanically changed to be SEMI AUTO. knowing this, taking a semi auto ASSAULT RIFLE TO FULLY AUTO FUNCTION..........is fairly simple!!!!
 

SignosaurusRex

Active Member
NOTE TO BOB: no other hunting rifle or weapon has 30-90 round magazines!!!! semi auto hunting rifle, max maybe 7 rounds in clip/tube. shotguns semi auto, pump, none i know of has more then a 7-8 magazine capacity.
HENCE THE TERM ASSAULT RIFLE!!!
its only purpose is to spread as much lead as the magazine will hold in the shortest amout of time.
ALSO....... assault weapons are created to FULLY AUTO, the one sold to civilians are mechanically changed to be SEMI AUTO. knowing this, taking a semi auto ASSAULT RIFLE TO FULLY AUTO FUNCTION..........is fairly simple!!!!

LMFAO! Please OP....don't yak out of the side of your neck about firearms. It only shows your ignorance.
 

Scott Reynolds

New Member
This is a clip....

picture.php

This is a Magazine....
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You guys REALLY want some food for thought? Check out this list and tell me what you notice. THIS is at least one of the problems.....

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.

Missing from list…3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds….
What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az

What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado

What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or

What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
Roberts is the only one that I haven’t heard about being on drugs of some kind
 

Scott Reynolds

New Member
ALSO....... assault weapons are created to FULLY AUTO, the one sold to civilians are mechanically changed to be SEMI AUTO. knowing this, taking a semi auto ASSAULT RIFLE TO FULLY AUTO FUNCTION..........is fairly simple!!!!

Please explain how simple??

I know exactly what it takes, it's FAR from "simple". Please explain....
 

Bigcat_hunter

New Member
oh...........and you just showed yours)))

You know that you can lawfully put a five round magazine in an AR-15 and hunt deer in most states right? In most states the .223 is fully legal for deer hunting. In the states that it is not legal it is because the .223 is considered too small for deer.

.223 FMJ bullets are designed to penetrate(punch through without maximum damage), not expand. If you wound an enemy soldier, it takes a medic to take him off the battle field, hence two enemy soldiers with one bullet.

These guns are not "30-90 round" killing machines. I'll bet that most competent hunters are WAY more deadly with a five round bolt action hunting rifle then any "30-90 round" so called "assault rifle".
 
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