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Hello...I am not a graphic artist

Dan Antonelli

New Member
Thing is Jeff, not all degrees are the same, not all experience is.

You can have a degree from Bucktooth University, or one from Art Center
and it means nothing unless the instructor was good and the student paid attention.

This is so true Rick. I've interviewed dozens of candidates from various universities and colleges. For some of these candidates, I really felt bad for them - that they've spent so much money on a degree, but either the university failed them, or they failed to study, or a combination of the two.

For designers, we hire, primarily from one or two universities that have amazing programs - one that teach designers to not only design - but to think. I would send my own kids there in a heartbeat if they had any interest in being a designer. The portfolios for these kids are amazing from this college (if you were wondering - its Kutztown University).

We just started an intern program with this college, so we'll have an intern for 8 weeks each semester. I have graduates from there that work for me.

For me, I worked for an amazing sign writer from when I was 15 to 22. While in college, I interned under an amazing art director. Between the two, I got a very well rounded schooling on art. And the degree from my University (of Scranton) taught me how to think about advertising, marketing, and communication.
 

Billct2

Active Member
All the proof I need that there are just as many bad graphic designers/marketing experts as there are sign makers is to drive the highway to work and try to decipher what some of the (very very expensive) billboards say.
 

CES020

New Member
All the proof I need that there are just as many bad graphic designers/marketing experts as there are sign makers is to drive the highway to work and try to decipher what some of the (very very expensive) billboards say.

I notice that stuff too. I also notice a lot of graphics on tv for commercials of brand name products using basic, simple fonts. People talk about how important font selection is all the time, then you see a multi-million dollar (or even billion dollar) corporation using Arial in their marketing. Makes one wonder if some things are as important as we make them out to be.
 

nikdoobs

New Member
It seems like everyone on this this thread thinks there's a huge difference between a graphic designer and a sign designer. I went to school for graphic design then started working in a sign shop. I've been working in the signage business for 7 years now. So am I a graphic designer or a sign designer?
 

TimToad

Active Member
It seems like everyone on this this thread thinks there's a huge difference between a graphic designer and a sign designer. I went to school for graphic design then started working in a sign shop. I've been working in the signage business for 7 years now. So am I a graphic designer or a sign designer?

They are one in the same. Its your versatility and ability to span both worlds (separate only in the minds of those seeking to divide us all ) that will continue to earn you a decent living as long as you are capable.
 

Ponto

New Member
They are one in the same. Its your versatility and ability to span both worlds (separate only in the minds of those seeking to divide us all ) that will continue to earn you a decent living as long as you are capable.

Excellent point.....interesting thread!

JP
 

thinksigns

SnowFlake
I find it interesting that OP would put that image as their Facebook cover photo. I wonder how a potential customer would take it.
 

Jeff

New Member
Here’s the story;

A self-proclaimed graphic artist calls. She has been working with one of my long time customers to develop a new logo and mascot. We have a conversation about designing and lettering. She boasts about her vast experience, knowledge and attention to detail.

She sends me the artwork.

My customer (our now joint customer) contacts me. The customer and I get together to discuss adding the new stuff to an already overloaded truck.

I have tried in the past to offer some changes/improvements to his self-made company brand. No luck. Obviously I do not have Dan Antonell’s ability to persuade customers to better things.
He tells me this graphic artist is part of their business network group and that is why he had her do this work for him. She came up with this fresh new original mascot art with her ability to think outside the box.

The new “logo” was a group effort; customer, his wife and the GA.

The following is right from the GA’s website and FB page.

“As a promotions specialist with a vast amount of education and experience in graphic design, copywriting, public relations & marketing, I am able to assist businesses in all their marketing needs from business cards to websites.

Not all businesses can afford to staff someone whose sole purpose is successful branding and promotion. That's where (blank studio) can help!
Those important promotional projects are given the focus they deserve, while allowing you the time you need to handle the daily needs of your business.

Need ideas on how to grow your business? Let's talk! I can help you strategize how to stand out in the crowd, while respecting your budget.

...ONE DESK, LOTS OF OPTIONS.”

This is the “final” artwork she sent me.

wrong number art jpeg.jpg Water drop mascot jpeg.jpg


As I have said before I DO NOT think I am a perfect designer. We all have things slip by us, but to me this logo has too many simple blunders to let it go out the door.
The center of the oval is miscued to the lower left and none of the copy in the oval is properly centered / aligned / doesn't fit the arc.
For me a water drop doesn’t scream pressure washer.

As for the “new original” mascot that the GA came up with while thinking outside of the box, it can be found in its entirety with a google search of “water drop”

She told the customer she is going to copy-write both of these for them?

Again I’m not above using clip-art and such as components of a design, but I can’t ever remember finding something such as this and trying to pass it off as my own creation.

I do realize there is not much difference between a GA and today’s sign designers. I know of many of both in my area that are what I would call veterans in the industry, yet they either don’t care or haven’t learned simple design / layout dos and don’ts.

As I said before I did not enter the world as a design prodigy, but I take great pride in my abilities I have developed and my attention to detail. You would be hard pressed to find a more anal individual than my-self when it comes to being meticulous about details.

Maybe I am just an “old fart” / x-sign “painter” that can’t get along in today’s new computer enhanced design world where if you can punch the keys…you’re good to go.:rolleyes:
 

Ponto

New Member
....technically speaking,......the oval certainly needs help! Was a "corrected" revision offered as a replacement?

JP
 

thinksigns

SnowFlake
Do you think a customer would find that offensive? Please explain.

Not offensive, just not the forum for you to "vent". Obviously this topic leads to some good discussion amongst sign people. I just would not want a potential customer to think I was "bragging" about not having a graphic design degree. It seems an odd thing to brag about.
 

Jeff

New Member
I just would not want a potential customer to think I was "bragging" about not having a graphic design degree. It seems an odd thing to brag about.

To each his own with regard to how you think. I think my work speaks for it's self. I don't feel embarrassed / unworthy because I don't have a degree.
 

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Here’s the story;

A self-proclaimed graphic artist calls. She has been working with one of my long time customers to develop a new logo and mascot. We have a conversation about designing and lettering. She boasts about her vast experience, knowledge and attention to detail.

She sends me the artwork.

My customer (our now joint customer) contacts me. The customer and I get together to discuss adding the new stuff to an already overloaded truck.

I have tried in the past to offer some changes/improvements to his self-made company brand. No luck. Obviously I do not have Dan Antonell’s ability to persuade customers to better things.
He tells me this graphic artist is part of their business network group and that is why he had her do this work for him. She came up with this fresh new original mascot art with her ability to think outside the box.

The new “logo” was a group effort; customer, his wife and the GA.

The following is right from the GA’s website and FB page.

“As a promotions specialist with a vast amount of education and experience in graphic design, copywriting, public relations & marketing, I am able to assist businesses in all their marketing needs from business cards to websites.

Not all businesses can afford to staff someone whose sole purpose is successful branding and promotion. That's where (blank studio) can help!
Those important promotional projects are given the focus they deserve, while allowing you the time you need to handle the daily needs of your business.

Need ideas on how to grow your business? Let's talk! I can help you strategize how to stand out in the crowd, while respecting your budget.

...ONE DESK, LOTS OF OPTIONS.”

This is the “final” artwork she sent me.

View attachment 101780 View attachment 101779


As I have said before I DO NOT think I am a perfect designer. We all have things slip by us, but to me this logo has too many simple blunders to let it go out the door.
The center of the oval is miscued to the lower left and none of the copy in the oval is properly centered / aligned / doesn't fit the arc.
For me a water drop doesn’t scream pressure washer.

As for the “new original” mascot that the GA came up with while thinking outside of the box, it can be found in its entirety with a google search of “water drop”

She told the customer she is going to copy-write both of these for them?

Again I’m not above using clip-art and such as components of a design, but I can’t ever remember finding something such as this and trying to pass it off as my own creation.

I do realize there is not much difference between a GA and today’s sign designers. I know of many of both in my area that are what I would call veterans in the industry, yet they either don’t care or haven’t learned simple design / layout dos and don’ts.

As I said before I did not enter the world as a design prodigy, but I take great pride in my abilities I have developed and my attention to detail. You would be hard pressed to find a more anal individual than my-self when it comes to being meticulous about details.

Maybe I am just an “old fart” / x-sign “painter” that can’t get along in today’s new computer enhanced design world where if you can punch the keys…you’re good to go.:roll eyes:


Ohhhh, that's bad... like really bad!

I see the full picture now, and I can see why you would vent, but you have it all wrong...
its not that "degreed" graphic designers suck... SHE SUCKS!!!!
 

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Hey, Mr Drippy is flipping us off!
 

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eahicks

Magna Cum Laude - School of Hard Knocks
Blame Adobe too...now ANYONE can get Photoshop for 10 bucks a month and (00* POOF *00)!! they are instant graphic designers.
 

David Wright

New Member
I have always been curious how much actual classroom time or credits are given in the average four year university art education.
More to the point, what percentage of all credits as opposed to required classes.
 

Marlene

New Member
I've seen some really horrid stuff come from old timey sign painters who have been in the biz since 1804 as well as crap from computer age 4 year degree people. it all comes down to talent. either you have it or you don't.
 

Deaton Design

New Member
IVe had so many startup a sign business in my town, after buying a cutter, printer, and whatever else they could get, but they didnt know the first thing about the fundamentals of layout.
They then set about destroying the perception of the sign business here, driving the pricing down, and basically giving work away and most customers went along with them. All the tools available
to signmakers are great, all the way from the brush and paint, to the cutters and printers, but without that knowledge of design, they are like giving a motorcycle to a snake. I scaled back my signwork here
due to low sales and a horrible economy. Most of those that started up are now gone. Myself, I had many decent years doing signs, and Im proud of the work I did. Im glad that I studied Mike Stevens, Signcraft
and other great signmakers to learn what I could and apply it to the work that I did. More people need to focus on design before focusing on buying equipment.
 
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