Help Please!

[Signmaker1234]

Need help with backlit sign please! Sign faces are already there and they are white. What's the difference between overprint, double strike, and double print? Using versaworks rip btw. Can someone give me some vinyl recommendations for this project also? I've never done a backlit sign before. Thank you in advance!

 

[CanuckSigns]

For backlits, your best bet is always going to be to use a good quality translucent cut vinyl, it produces the best results day and night. However if the design doesn't allow for that, you can print on translucent white vinyl.

The problem with printing translucent signs is that the inks are translucent so when you back light a standard print it looks very washed out. There is a way around d this that involves printing on 2 seperate sheets and carefully lining them up, but your material costs double and your labour cost goes up.

Double printing is a way of laying down 2 times as much ink as normal so when the sign is backlit the colours look correct, however during the day the colours are too dark

TL;DR use a translucent cut vinyl where possible as your results will be much nicer.

 

[Signmaker1234]

For backlits, your best bet is always going to be to use a good quality translucent cut vinyl, it produces the best results day and night. However if the design doesn't allow for that, you can print on translucent white vinyl.

The problem with printing translucent signs is that the inks are translucent so when you back light a standard print it looks very washed out. There is a way around d this that involves printing on 2 seperate sheets and carefully lining them up, but your material costs double and your labour cost goes up.

Double printing is a way of laying down 2 times as much ink as normal so when the sign is backlit the colours look correct, however during the day the colours are too dark

TL;DR use a translucent cut vinyl where possible as your results will be much nicer.

What's the best technique for the double printing? The design (which I didn't do) can't be done with colored cut vinyl, so it has to be printed. The printing on 2 separate pieces of vinyl sounds like the best option but can this been done with a first surface application since the sign face is white? Thank you for the info and fast response!

 

[oldgoatroper]

What's the best technique for the double printing? The design (which I didn't do) can't be done with colored cut vinyl, so it has to be printed. Thank you for the info and fast response!

If youhave a roll-feed printer, have to print two copies on clear (if you have already a sign-white face) and overlay one on the other very carefully. (clear pre-mask is a great help in this).

If you have a flat-bed printer and your design can be printed in sections, then simply printing your clear substrate twice without disturbing its position, will do the trick. (double-hitting).

I have found, through some trial and error, that two hits at 100% density can be a bit much for daytime / unlit conditions, so I will do a test wit a scaled down version or a representative section (density-wise) and see if making the second print at 70-80% density (or there-abouts) of the first print will give acceptable results both night and day.

But you will need to test it... there is no hard and fast rule. You can also curve your dark areas down and leave the lighter colours at 100% for the second hit. Like I said, testing is the key to this working out.

 

[oldgoatroper]

I will also add...

if your design has only a portion that must be printed, then, by all means, just print that portion and nest it into translucent cut vinyl -- in the years to come, when the printed portion is starting to weather and wash out, it won't be nearly as noticeable as the translucent vinyl around it is still in good shape and has s few more years left of decent colour.

This trick has really worked well for me. When we got our first UV printer, the ink was rated for two years outdoors and I printed only the part of our logo that was four-colour with it and everything else was trans. vinyl. I expected the sign overall to look decent for maybe 3-4-5 years, but it was up for eight years before the faded part of the logo (which had relatively deteriorated long before) really became apparent enough to be noticeable against the surrounding trans vinyl.

Your mileage may vary depending on the design

 

[oldgoatroper]

One more thing I forgot to mention...

If you are using a roll-feed printer and subsequently printing two copies on clear to overlay one-another, and if you are scaling back the density on one of the copies, then install that scaled-back version on your signface first, and then overlay the 100% density copy on top (if your graphics are going on the first surface -- outside surface).

This is not an issue if you are double-hitting a single piece of clear on a flatbed.

 

[printhog]

heres a great doc for you.. http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...-sign-faces-all-imaging-methods.pdf?&COrrrrQ-

Do not print on two clear layers and put them over each other. That'll ruin the daytime appearance.

Ive had great results with the 3M method since years ago when we first started doing backlits with Scotchprint graphics. It works great and the client will always be satisfied. 3M has decades of experience in this.
It will double your clients price, but 4 color on translucent is the priciest sign out there. At least $35 PSF.
Whether you can be profitable with the higher inventory costs is a call you need to make. You can get most of the supplies in cut yardage.


its only a freaking sign!

 

[oldgoatroper]

The correct way to produce a two layer translucent is to print one layer on clear vinyl, this is the first layer you apply to the sign face and it acts to increase the nighttime density of the image. The second layer is printed on white translucent (3M 3630-20) vinyl. This is the print that will be seen in the daytime. It is applied over the first layer, aligning the images by illuminating from behind.

Although I agree with you on that if one is applying to a clear sign face, the original poster has said the face is already white and I'm presuming the face is a signwhite face that already has the proper density of white. Adding another layer of white translucent will only dim the sign and the colours.

 

[printhog]

I revised my answer and included the 3M bulletin. Full instructions in that. In my experience clear over clear is as noticable as a washed out single layer and color shifts are unpredictable in both. Not so with a reduced white. Yeah you lose some brightness, but you gain proper color in daylight.

Of course client may not want to pay for those options.

My advice to OP is to try a sample of each technique and let the client decide. We've printed 10s of thousands of sq ft of translucents wholesale for electric shops as a service bureau in the 90s. They always went with the clear over translucent.. stunning when done second surface!

its only a freaking sign!

 

[Signmaker1234]

For backlits, your best bet is always going to be to use a good quality translucent cut vinyl, it produces the best results day and night. However if the design doesn't allow for that, you can print on translucent white vinyl.

The problem with printing translucent signs is that the inks are translucent so when you back light a standard print it looks very washed out. There is a way around d this that involves printing on 2 seperate sheets and carefully lining them up, but your material costs double and your labour cost goes up.

Double printing is a way of laying down 2 times as much ink as normal so when the sign is backlit the colours look correct, however during the day the colours are too dark

TL;DR use a translucent cut vinyl where possible as your results will be much nicer.

Thank you!

 

[Signmaker1234]

I revised my answer and included the 3M bulletin. Full instructions in that. In my experience clear over clear is as noticable as a washed out single layer and color shifts are unpredictable in both. Not so with a reduced white. Yeah you lose some brightness, but you gain proper color in daylight.

Of course client may not want to pay for those options.

My advice to OP is to try a sample of each technique and let the client decide. We've printed 10s of thousands of sq ft of translucents wholesale for electric shops as a service bureau in the 90s. They always went with the clear over translucent.. stunning when done second surface!

its only a freaking sign!

Thank you!

 

[Signmaker1234]

Although I agree with you on that if one is applying to a clear sign face, the original poster has said the face is already white and I'm presuming the face is a signwhite face that already has the proper density of white. Adding another layer of white translucent will only dim the sign and the colours.

Thank you!

 

[oldgoatroper]

I revised my answer and included the 3M bulletin. Full instructions in that. In my experience clear over clear is as noticable as a washed out single layer and color shifts are unpredictable in both. Not so with a reduced white. Yeah you lose some brightness, but you gain proper color in daylight.

Of course client may not want to pay for those options.

My advice to OP is to try a sample of each technique and let the client decide. We've printed 10s of thousands of sq ft of translucents wholesale for electric shops as a service bureau in the 90s. They always went with the clear over translucent.. stunning when done second surface!

its only a freaking sign!

defn agree with that.