Hi Everyone!

[GraphixUnlimited]

welcome aboard if only for a while lol... risky guy though.. playing with fire looking for monster logo.. but i suppose if ya had too it isnt exactly hard to reproduce with illustrator and some photoshop knowledge ( i do not condone this HAHA )

cheers eh!

 

[AUTO-FX]

Some of the higher end vinyls like Oracal 651/751 can be used either as a graphic under some of the lower temp. curing clears, or as a graphic mask to do graphics like a painter would use.

Pretty cool, and thats kinda what i figured. Are you aware that there are paint masking films made just for this type of application? Oracal has a couple varieties. Also, i think i might try to stick with the cast film, like the 751, since its more dimensionally stable, especially if you're doing anything with outdoor exposure or temperature swings. I'd be worried about differences in expansion rates.

And hey, while I'm not the police , I'd be careful with the logos if you go to sell anything so you dont get in trouble. HD is supposedly especially touchy !

 

[KillerKustom]

I imagine powder coating is like sign making, the more serious you want to take it, the more you need to spend. I'm guessing like my cheap chinese cutter, these cheap entry level powder guns you see at Eastwood and Harbor Freight make it look cheap and easy.
Your basic needs:
1.) Powder application equipment. The cheaper models I listed will apply powder, but with marginal success. You can skip multiple coats and faraday issues will be a nightmare. My gun application gun retailed for $1500, the top guns are $4500+
2.) Application area. A dedicated ground system is a must. Powder containment (booth) is not a need, but be prepared for a mess if you don't and any debri in the air will attract to the static charge and adhear to the part. Humidity can give you issues and your area has to be clean free of any type of silicone contaminants.
3.) A extremely clean/dry air source is a must. Think along the lines of a painters filtration set up. Any, and I mean .01 microns of oil or moisture will mess up your part.
4.) A dedicated oven. You can start with a household oven if you are only going to do small parts. Once used for powder it can no longer be used for parts. The downfall is home oven temperatures can vary 50-60 degrees. Temp needs to be held within 5 degrees normally. Ovens are expensive!
5.) Metal prep area/ sandblasting/chemical pretreatment. All metal has to be extremely clean, prepped and free of all contaminants. Out gassing is a big problem, and metals need a phosphate treatement.
6.) Chenmical strip. You will mess up, parts need to be stripped and prepped if used, and powder coating is 10x's tougher than paint and just as hard to remove..
This is the basics. I could go a lot deeper, but right now don't have the time. I need to get back to work! But this gives you the basics at least. It's not rocket science, but there are a lot of things that can go wrong. I originally thought I could get started for a few grand. I am a small shop and have over $15,ooo invested so far.

 

[KillerKustom]

I have a feeling I am going to get deleted. I do appreciate the Monster advice and will look into attaining the rights and costs before I proceed with this upcoming project. Last thing I need is to get in trouble and fined for a few bucks. Thanks again!

 

[Gino]

I imagine powder coating is like sign making, the more serious you want to take it, the more you need to spend. I'm guessing like my cheap chinese cutter, these cheap entry level powder guns you see at Eastwood and Harbor Freight make it look cheap and easy.
Your basic needs:
1.) Powder application equipment. The cheaper models I listed will apply powder, but with marginal success. You can skip multiple coats and faraday issues will be a nightmare. My gun application gun retailed for $1500, the top guns are $4500+
2.) Application area. A dedicated ground system is a must. Powder containment (booth) is not a need, but be prepared for a mess if you don't and any debri in the air will attract to the static charge and adhear to the part. Humidity can give you issues and your area has to be clean free of any type of silicone contaminants.
3.) A extremely clean/dry air source is a must. Think along the lines of a painters filtration set up. Any, and I mean .01 microns of oil or moisture will mess up your part.
4.) A dedicated oven. You can start with a household oven if you are only going to do small parts. Once used for powder it can no longer be used for parts. The downfall is home oven temperatures can vary 50-60 degrees. Temp needs to be held within 5 degrees normally. Ovens are expensive!
5.) Metal prep area/ sandblasting/chemical pretreatment. All metal has to be extremely clean, prepped and free of all contaminants. Out gassing is a big problem, and metals need a phosphate treatement.
6.) Chenmical strip. You will mess up, parts need to be stripped and prepped if used, and powder coating is 10x's tougher than paint and just as hard to remove..
This is the basics. I could go a lot deeper, but right now don't have the time. I need to get back to work! But this gives you the basics at least. It's not rocket science, but there are a lot of things that can go wrong. I originally thought I could get started for a few grand. I am a small shop and have over $15,ooo invested so far.

$15,000, that's like taking a piss in the ocean. It ain't squat.
​

Let me get this straight. You're just a little shop in the powder coating business and you're not looking to get into the sign business so to speak.......... so what is it that you want to do for a living ??

Don't you have any ambition to become something or to make a living and become good at anything ??

Do you need help making a business plan so you can stay afloat instead of being a nobody in every business attempt you attempt ??

Why do you only buy the bare minimum in both of the businesses you mentioned ?? Are you cheap ??


These are questions I ask myself every time I walk through Lowes and want to become a roofer, carpenter, plumber or electrician. I mean they sell everything there is to make a living... and they even sell books for the DIY-ers. Hell, anybody can do anything if the put their mind to it. Killer, just don't try your luck at dentistry or brain surgery. I know for a fact you need to know more than just belonging to a forum with the words in the title.

Again, welcome aboard.....and good luck. You're gonna need it.
​

 

[KillerKustom]

Wow!...How are you doing today? I guess I should have mentioned my powder coating business is a side business. I didn't think I had to, to introduce myself and ask a simple question. I work full time in the printing industry and have for the last 21 years, and have had a very successful career at it. My coating business has been completely out of pocket. I have 0 debt, not even any credit card debt. I have a cusotm 2006 Dodge Charger for a car, a truck, 2 Harley's ('77shovel and a "48 pan), my house and my shop, all on my own income. I only owe money on the mortgage. I am tired of printing and coating started out as a hobby and I am building it up to try to make it a full time career. I have a plan, but thanks!

Edit: ON a side note, I called the owner who was looking to do his dirt bike in a Monster theme and told him the logo is protected and I wouldn't be able to help him. It wasn't going to be a big profitable job anyway.

 

[dj_elite]

I doubt the harley statement. I got in trouble with them a while back for making stickers with their logo on it for harley products. They have the most trademarks out of any 1 company and they let me know that! They have employees whos job is to just scout and find people illegally using their trademarks. They even have the word harley and davidson trademarked! You cant even make a sticker that says the word harley on it. I doubt he laughed and said their is nothing to worry about. You might think we are being rude, but this is a tight forum. Its also filled with intellects and hard to put one past us. On that note welcome to the forums and good luck!

 

[KillerKustom]

I doubt the harley statement. I got in trouble with them a while back for making stickers with their logo on it for harley products. They have the most trademarks out of any 1 company and they let me know that! They have employees whos job is to just scout and find people illegally using their trademarks. They even have the word harley and davidson trademarked! You cant even make a sticker that says the word harley on it. I doubt he laughed and said their is nothing to worry about. You might think we are being rude, but this is a tight forum. Its also filled with intellects and hard to put one past us. On that note welcome to the forums and good luck!

I appreciate the welcome. I am not trying to put one past anyone. I would rather do everything by the book. I have not distributed or used their logo for anything other than personal practice. Please do not take anything I say as negative. I am here to learn more than what I know. The story about talking to Willie G is true. It took place at J&L Harley Davidson in Sioux Falls, SD the weekend before Sturgis. My bike took first place and since it is almost 34 years old, it got a lot of attention. I went to their headquarters website and tried to contact them about infringement. If anyone has a lead they could point me in the right direction, that would be great. It makes me wonder why their logo's are so easy to access all over the web if they are so protective? brandsoftheworld has quite a few just as a reference. Monster is impossible to find, I would think Harley would be too if they are in fact so strict????

 

[Bigdawg]

Edit: ON a side note, I called the owner who was looking to do his dirt bike in a Monster theme and told him the logo is protected and I wouldn't be able to help him. It wasn't going to be a big profitable job anyway.

That's by far the smartest thing you've posted yet.

I'll tell you honestly that I was pretty sure I was going to have to delete your account when I got back on. But I'm not - at least not at this point in time

If you had explained yourself a little better in the beginning a couple of things would have happened - number one being that you wouldn't have gotten the reception you did when you posted that you were a powder coater wanting to do signs for himself. Then you posted up copyrighted images and claimed to have Harley Davidson's permission to use them. I have to question that still... and a word of advice - if you're smart you'd get them off your public facebook page.

As usual, Fred can say it better than me (with some parts of the discussion removed):

We accept members who are in related professions and some unrelated professions but who are interested in sign making as a profession. This would include photographers, print shops, web designers, embroiderers, CNC routers...

While it is a toss up on this guy, he certainly doesn't fit the mold of a guy who is looking to beat the system of dealing with a professional sign maker either ...

He isn't an end user. He's looking to incorporate graphics into the profession he works at to develop new and different products.

So you are here on that basis... I'd use the opportunity to learn the fundamentals of how signs differ from printing...

or maybe its just that I want to see a picture of that 48 pan...

 

[Fitch]

Like Stacey, I think Larry deserves the benefit of doubt and the benefit of our all encompassing knowledge and experience.

Unlike some others, he has in no way been rude, snooty, vicious, or vindictive toward individual posts.

In fact the harshest he has posted was "Look, I'm not here to step on anyones toes or break any rules, or do anything illegal."

So I say welcome aboard from Sydney Australia... enjoy the ride and who knows... at some point you may be able to offer some good advice on.... "my cnc cut aluminium came back from the powder coaters all rough - almost like there is grit underneath it and looks like ripples and bubbles. Should I take it back and ask them to do it again"?

Cheers - G

 

[Mosh]

Oh just go ahead and use any logo you want...copyright stopmyright!
Like any Harley rep is going to be kicking it at the local flea-markets!

Just tell them The Mosh said it as all cool!

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

The real problem goes well beyond TM infringement (a civil matter). Why I stopped producing vast quantities of stickers years ago was when the laws changed to Manufacturing counterfeit goods (a serious criminal offense). Shortly thereafter a local (legally blind) 70 years old man lost his business, house and corvette shop because he was airbrushing chevy t shirts in the Carlile PA auto show. And yes Mosh, he left the show in cuffs. It's the same thing here when they bust a warehouse making counterfeit gucci bags (something you don't want to be involved in). The guys on the boardwalk with 20 inch plotters and books of TM logos are committing the same crime.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

It makes me wonder why their logo's are so easy to access all over the web if they are so protective?

Bingo! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that the logos that are all over the web are not from the company themselves, but rather copies (pirate images) and therefore, they are the most commonly produced without permission or license (especially popular images) and that in turn drives the need for an aggressive anti-copyright infringement policy complete with legal might. Simply put......These companies can and will take a serious chunk of your hide (and sometimes bury the rest) in order to protect what is theirs, no matter how small or big you might be.

 

[KillerKustom]

Thank you for the welcome Fitch and Bigdawg thank you for not deleting me, yet..lol... Just to clarify myself and my intentions. I AM planning on selling basic vehicle and business signs to customers. For right now I am mainly interested in basic signs with basic designing and without printing. Maybe someday I will upgrade my equipment and get into more, maybe not. I've used coral and inkscape in the past. I am no way an expert, and that is how I stumbled upon this place. I will not be one of the guys selling decals at flee markets. I will admit I was naive with the Monster logo. Lesson learned.
I AM going to make every intent to be cleared by Harley Davidson for the way I intend to. Like a painter would use a mask for graphics or the actual graphic itself. Painters paint the Harley logo all the time or use the graphics on new paint jobs, I don't see the difference. Graphics with powder coating is very new, and has never been achievable in the past. This is going to be my niche market. Like I mentioned, I will not be making anything to sell. I don't have time to cut numerous images and sit there and weed them.
I will be glad to help anyone who has any issues with their powder coaters... Unfortunately there are many out there who buy a $170 gun and a household oven and open up shop, without a tax id number and don't have a clue as far as prep and putting out a quality, dependable finish. I am not trying to do that to the sign business.

I apologize if I created any confusion in the beginning.

Bigdawg, the pan is only half together but I'll snap a pic of her so far. She is going to be nice.

 

[KillerKustom]

Bingo! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that the logos that are all over the web are not from the company themselves, but rather copies (pirate images) and therefore, they are the most commonly produced without permission or license (especially popular images) and that in turn drives the need for an aggressive anti-copyright infringement policy complete with legal might. Simply put......These companies can and will take a serious chunk of your hide (and sometimes bury the rest) in order to protect what is theirs, no matter how small or big you might be.

I understand that, but do they not see them there and make them delete them? That is the impression I am getting Monster did. I'm sorry if I am naive on this, but I am trying to get educated.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

...... but I am trying to get educated.

I believe that is the whole premise behind this site!
I think I understand and can appreciate where you are and your intentions. Be forewarned......the journey that you are embarking upon can be painful and expensive for a (totally) greenhorn like yourself, but if that journey is where your heart (it must be from the heart rather than the ars) takes you, well then.........party on! GOT BEER?

 

[KillerKustom]

.........party on! GOT BEER?

Yeah, I have to drink beer so I have the empty aluminum bottles to practice on. lol..... I fully recognize I am green, but I'm hoping to find a place that when I do have a design issue, I have a search engine to try to figure out what I am doing wrong, and if that doesn't give me a answer, some good people who will help a guy out.

I like your sig btw. I have the same saying on my facebook business page.

 

[KillerKustom]

If anyone is interested, here is the info I found on logo usage for Harley Davidson:

http://www.inta.org/downloads/Commi...arley-Davidson_Visual_Identity_Guidelines.pdf

 

[Dave Drane]

Good post killer. I went to the museum in Milwaukee last april, and found that they are very proud of the logo, but needless to say I did cut it out of orange scotchlite and stick it on the back of my helmet, from the disc I was supplied with from Cadlink/signlab in 1998??? or therabouts. I do remember after a few years the dealer coming in and saying he would like to give me "a brand new CD" as a trade in on my old one!!..
I believe that HD are bigger on copyright than Disney or Warner ever were.
Good luck with your business but stay away from anbything Oracal and regards from Down-Under. PS, I went to Sturgess last April and picked up some good deals, which were much better than my HOG mates got there in August.. lol

 

[KillerKustom]

Nice looking Road King you have in your avatar. If I remember right the phone numbers in that link are no good, that's when I went to the corporate site and called a number I found there. I'm going to try again later today though and maybe send a email if I can figure out where.
Why stay away from Oracal? Just curious....