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Fatboy

New Member
SO then my Sign 101 friends? No more advice questions? So what shall we do on here exept blowing smoke up our own arses and reminding each other how many years we have been doing it,how good we are with paintbrushes bla bla bla!
Ridiculous that op can't ask any sign related question (which by the way I don't have the answer to) on here.Get a live my cousey!
 

Fatboy

New Member
and please don't take the name calling away either! Then there really is nothing left.lol
 
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RobbyMac

New Member
If I'd seen similar responses to the dumbass questions I've had, I'd likely not have returned, let alone subscribed for the 'entertainment' available on this site.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
SO then my Sign 101 friends? No more advice questions? So what shall we do on here exept blowing smoke up our own arses and reminding each other how many years we have been doing it,how good we are with paintbrushes bla bla bla!
Ridiculous that op can't ask any sign related question (which by the way I don't have the answer to) on here.Get a live my cousey!


You pose quite a quandary directive.

I would imagine, if some of the questions were better formed so as one could make sense of them, there would be no need for all of the attitudes most of the seasoned veterans show, whether they be old crabby f**ts or young punks with computer savvy.

You see, when getting into a field of work, especially when some experience is nice, it would help if that experience was more than just owning some equipment and having a goal.

Let's say you wanted to become an electrician, plumber, doctor, mechanic, surveyor, television camera operator, airline pilot, therapist, urban planner.... vs. a DJ, flippin' burgers, a clown, re-modeler, grass cutter, dig ditches for the local municipality, lay macadam, fix roofs and so on.... do you think it would help with some of these to know as much as possible before heading in and opening up shop ??
Why is sign making so different ?? :doh:
Maybe because it's been made so easy to enter into the ranks, that no one takes it seriously and has no ill feelings about turning out crap and total waste because they don't know any better to begin with ?? You can now get your education on-line from people who know what they're doing and yet, because they don't teach down to the lowest and most pitiful levels of some of the questions of people who can't spell, use grammar or form an intelligent thought..... the inadequate requester is bad-mouthing the very people from whom he/she's asking for answers. It's a really funny scenario. People wanna come into this business without a business plan....ah the hack with that pre-requisit.... they don't have a clue as to what they want to pursue in life in general, but got caught by some other hack sign maker and now they are going to set the world on fire cause they feel justified.

I would be willing to wager just about anything, that more people in this business are burnt customers from these hacks I speak about. They feel a need to get into what appears to be a get-rich scheme and jump in head first into the deep end, instead of working their way through, learning the ins & outs of the trade, learning techniques and then finally perfecting certain portions of the trade and going after their dream in that fashion.

To be good in your field, you must first understand what it is you are getting into. After that, identify, your direction and then perfect yourself. Sure, you'll get knocked down along the way, but the strong get right back up and keep on keepin' on. Identify your shortcomings and learn.

Most of the complainers here are getting the very information they are requesting. It just isn't delivered the way they want it, so they spout off crap and get pissy about it and then a name-calling contest follows which is the fun part to most of us, but nonetheless, it doesn't really serve anyone.... especially Fred or his sponsors.

I guess it's a little hard conducting business when all the hostility shown here takes place among so-called peers when it's really a piece of cake once you understand the fundamentals. Yes, learn the basics and the rest will fall into place amazingly well. I can assure you of that.

Just yesterday, I received a call from a member here with an incredible story and I'd really like to follow through with the same mindset, but I'm getting too old for that kind of change, but for others... there is so much information here, at any level, at your fingertips and you still get caught up on ego, name calling and attitudes. Get over it. It happens everywhere and with today's world situation, it ain't gonna get too much better in the near future, so learn to deal with it.
Either learn it or get off the pot.:unclesam:
 
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CES020

New Member
Just out of curiosity, how would one learn something that don't know about? A think many of us started in this business in one place and we've moved in other directions based on business opportunities we've seen over the years.

We don't have a large format printer. So how would we ever get into the market of large format printing. If we currently sub all of it out, and want to bring it in house, how can we, since we don't own one, so we don't know how to run it? Would we buy one and learn, taking our bumps and bruises along the way, asking dumb, obvious questions, looking like a newbie? Or would we shut our business down and go work for someone with a large format printer so we could learn how it's done? Or would we hire someone with the knowledge and put all of our business in the hands of someone else that could walk out the door and leave us in trouble?

I think you have to start somewhere, don't you? I think just about everyone reading this has bought something they didn't know how to use. That's what we do. We go buy software and hardware that is new that we've never used, then we go back to work and try and figure out how to make money with them, don't we?
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Just out of curiosity, how would one learn something that don't know about? A think many of us started in this business in one place and we've moved in other directions based on business opportunities we've seen over the years.

We don't have a large format printer. So how would we ever get into the market of large format printing. If we currently sub all of it out, and want to bring it in house, how can we, since we don't own one, so we don't know how to run it? Would we buy one and learn, taking our bumps and bruises along the way, asking dumb, obvious questions, looking like a newbie? Or would we shut our business down and go work for someone with a large format printer so we could learn how it's done? Or would we hire someone with the knowledge and put all of our business in the hands of someone else that could walk out the door and leave us in trouble?

I think you have to start somewhere, don't you? I think just about everyone reading this has bought something they didn't know how to use. That's what we do. We go buy software and hardware that is new that we've never used, then we go back to work and try and figure out how to make money with them, don't we?


I don't think you're being honest with yourself. You're justifying things you do and making assumptions the whole industry works the same model you do.

Take one of your comments for example.

You don't have a wide format printer.........so:​
You still will do all of the layouts, designs, learn your software to get the best results from your wholesaler. You'll talk with your customer and set up all the files necessary to get the job done correctly. You'll learn the lingo. You'll build your wide format market until it's time to make the plunge. You'll go to a sign show or two, talk to various distributors where you can purchase printers and supplies. You'll talk to various lending institutions to get financing, unless you have the cash upfront. You'll get most of your ducks lined up simply with your own learned knowledge and when you have many of your decisions made, you come here and get tons of second opinions and ask for help. You'll get ridicules, good help, poor suggestions and you in the end are responsible for your own destiny based on your knowledge and help from your peers.

However, as you are putting it above. It sounds like you have absolutely no inkling what to do and you come here for all of your answers without any of yourself entered into the equation. That's a sure-fire recipe for disaster.

There is no way to not have any insight into some of the questions/requests posed here so often. It shows pure lack of respect for oneself and the community along with total laziness on the poster's part. Why does someone pose a question like.... where can I find a supplier for ...... anything ?? These people have found s101 through googling and other means, why stop there ?? Why, once they find s101 they go completely stupid and just ask away and fire out some of the most ridiculous questions and requests ??

Annnnnd your answer is... they have to start somewhere ?? I think not. I personally don't want to help anyone whom is too lazy to help themselves, at least a little. Show some frickin' effort. Remember the old term 'E' for effort ?? Well, now it's 'E' for e-mail me the answer, now and without any lip or tude.

No CES, it's not about starting someplace, we all start someplace, but the doers are self motivated and will get the job done regardless. These other hacks, just want a free pass for the most part. Here today, gone tomorrow.
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Just out of curiosity, how would one learn something that don't know about? ...

You have states, rather ineptly, the fundamental problem of empiricism. Specifically, Aristotelian empiricism. This is a philosophical pinata upon which academics like to beat.

We don't have a large format printer. So how would we ever get into the market of large format printing. If we currently sub all of it out, and want to bring it in house, how can we, since we don't own one, so we don't know how to run it? Would we buy one and learn, taking our bumps and bruises along the way, asking dumb, obvious questions, looking like a newbie?...

Heaven forefend you should look like a newbie, eh?

Your quandary as stated as stated above does not fit with the philosophical dilemma you stated in your first paragraph. You know what printing is and you probably have a reasonably accurate idea of how it's done. So, figure it out. It's not difficult, just time and materials consuming.
 

CES020

New Member
I think you over simplify things too much some times Gino. I seem to recall The Vector Doctor doing a tutorial some time ago and many seasoned sign people said they learned things they didn't know from watching him do nothing more than draw with the pen tool over top of letters.

But you didn't rip those people apart for not knowing how to use the pen tool and being in the trade for years. Yet, someone asks a question like this, which I think is a reasonable question, and they are suddenly a "freeloader" of the trade? How so?

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, I don't know anything about them, so I haven't judged their motives.

So I guess if you don't know how to use an advanced tool in Corel, you're stupid, a hack, and shouldn't be in the business, but if you learned how to use the pen tool in Illustrator from watching the Vector Doctor trace letters, then you're a sign master that deserves respect? The two reactions don't match.
 
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Gino

Premium Subscriber
I think you over simply things too much some times Gino. I seem to recall The Vector Doctor doing a tutorial some time ago and many seasoned sign people said they learned things they didn't know from watching him do nothing more than draw with the pen tool over top of letters.

But you didn't rip those people apart for not knowing how to use the pen tool and being in the trade for years. Yet, someone asks a question like this, which I think is a reasonable question, and they are suddenly a "freeloader" of the trade? How so?

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, I don't know anything about them, so I haven't judged their motives.

So I guess if you how to use an advanced tool in Corel, you're stupid, a hack, and shouldn't be in the business, but if you learned how to use the pen tool in Illustrator from watching the Vector Doctor trace letters, then you're a sign master that deserves respect? The two reactions don't match.


Sorry, but you have so many typos, I really can't get the gist of your entire post. Please either edit it or re-write it and I'll try to answer this one, also. I start to think I understand it, then you either misspell or leave out a word and your thoughts take on a whole new meaning. This step [spelling, grammar & punctuation] means a lot at this stage of the game.

:thankyou:
 

CES020

New Member
Try it again, sorry the autocorrect feature gets to running a little wild. Mix that with my real errors and it's a combination for a mess.

Hopefully it's fixed enough now you can read it.
 

Fatboy

New Member
Whenever people paint themselves in a corner....out comes the dictionary.Flippid Gino ...I can't understand half of what you just said. LOL I think you cool though.You have always helped me and even invited me to pm you at any time when I started my business. That is the spirit I don't want us to lose towards newbies. You let people with Bob's attitude lose and we will be third world very quickly.I know...I live in Africa.
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
Wow, I'm kind of surprised by some of the flames blazing in this thread. It's not like the sample design from the OP involved giving away state secrets in order to list a recipe of how the design could be completed. Pretty basic stuff.

I do share the frustration other long time sign designers have at various newbies arriving on the scene, often without any qualifications to do design work. The visual landscape in many communities is polluted with horrible design. And graphic artists with lots of experience and talent have a difficult time trying to justify the pay they deserve when so many others are coming in and out of the trade willing to work for cheap.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I think you over simplify things too much some times Gino. I seem to recall The Vector Doctor doing a tutorial some time ago and many seasoned sign people said they learned things they didn't know from watching him do nothing more than draw with the pen tool over top of letters.

But you didn't rip those people apart for not knowing how to use the pen tool and being in the trade for years. Yet, someone asks a question like this, which I think is a reasonable question, and they are suddenly a "freeloader" of the trade? How so?

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, I don't know anything about them, so I haven't judged their motives.

So I guess if you don't know how to use an advanced tool in Corel, you're stupid, a hack, and shouldn't be in the business, but if you learned how to use the pen tool in Illustrator from watching the Vector Doctor trace letters, then you're a sign master that deserves respect? The two reactions don't match.

Now that's a new one.... I'm being accused of oversimplifying something. :ROFLMAO:

Okay, your example of the Vector Doctor showing how to do somethings was exactly that.... a tutorial. It's for learning about what he does, how you can implement it into your own work and how well he is at doing it and why you might consider having him do some jobs for you. It served quite a few venues.

Why rip apart people commenting on what they've seen, learned and possibly might be able to use in the future or perhaps say, that's too hard, I'll let the Vector Doctor do it for me, pay the price and be done with it. Either way, people are learning from a tutorial.

Why doesn't your boy here in this thread use the 'Search' button or show what he can do so far and ask for some pointers on how to do it better ?? Why ask for a step-by-step tutorial made especially for him ?? How does he rate special favors ?? Oh, that's right, he doesn't. He just gives lip immediately and b**ches about those that were helpful, but didn't do his work for him. Let me ask you CES.... do you do your kid's homework every night to ensure he/she gets good marks at school ??

Regardless of what your answer to that is.... he was shown by numerous people on how to do it and still felt the need to cry about it. I have nothing against the OP, but in my lifetime, those kinds of people get nowhere because they are lazy or manipulative..... or both.

No one is saying not knowing how to use a particular tool in some software is wrong, but expecting sugar-coated answers when the same questions are asked time and time again and these people refuse to help themselves.... why are we expected to help those that don't help themselves... except to free hand-outs ??

My beef is not with you CES, nor the OP, but more towards this type mentality whereas we are expected to hand over the farm without any questions on our end.
 

CES020

New Member
I'm fine with that Gino. My impression was that you didn't think ANYONE should ask simple questions. I understand now that your beef was the way it was asked and the level of detail. I took issue with your comments because you said things along the lines of people shouldn't ask where to get materials from either, more or less.

I've asked for it a number of times and I know many of us have asked simple questions like that before, not because we haven't looked or we're lazy, but because we've exhausted our resources for finding it and need to the collective wisdom of others to help us get through something we're stuck on.

No worries, I understand where you're coming from now.

Have a good day!
 

10sacer

New Member
Use Typestyler for the MAC. Will do the bulk of the work for you, then just convert to paths and add the surround by offsetting a copy of the outer path and fill with your color.
 

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
For the love of all that is unholy. This is not that hard that it requires bickering like little kids.

I'm not attaching it because it's too big. Save and use. Follow steps I listed previously.

http://imgur.com/RVMFl

enjoy.





jeez.
 
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