How do you find good employees?

[ucmj22]

No, well, maybe... :Big Laugh ... thats what I did... I bounced around till I found the right fit, all the while picking up skills. I would have stayed at any of the jobs, but like many of the employed at small shops, they had little to offer as far as advancement.

it has taken me about 3 years, but after realizing that no one in any of the owners businesses, save for their son and daughter in-law, make more than 30K a year.... there is no advancement here. I dont have another 3 years to see if the promises of grandeur are fulfilled.

 

[Rick]

it has taken me about 3 years, but after realizing that no one in any of the owners businesses, save for their son and daughter in-law, make more than 30K a year.... there is no advancement here. I dont have another 3 years to see if the promises of grandeur are fulfilled.

If they make 30k, I'm thinking you make less?

I would never wait that long. You can tell in 6-9 months the kind of person/company you are working for or how much advancement you can make. The only advice I would give anyone is learn all you can, absorb it like a sponge, then get the shweeze out, but make sure you get a bump in pay.

I went from 6 bucks an hour to 60k + with benefits in 5 years by working my butt off, adapting to each shop and soaking it all in.

My work principles have always been:
---Make the boss a crap load of money while I am there.
---I have to be the boss of your own career. Never leave my career in the hands of someone else.

Do that and the money will come. (might take longer in this economy, but it will happen)

 

[Ponto]

"...Finding a good employee is just as hard as finding a good employer. Especially in the sign business..."

KUDOS FOR HITTING THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....and a very entertaining thread........................


JP

 

[ucmj22]

If they make 30k, I'm thinking you make less?

I would never wait that long. You can tell in 6-9 months the kind of person/company you are working for or how much advancement you can make. The only advice I would give anyone is learn all you can, absorb it like a sponge, then get the shweeze out, but make sure you get a bump in pay.

I went from 6 bucks an hour to 60k + with benefits in 5 years by working my butt off, adapting to each shop and soaking it all in.

My work principles have always been:
---Make the boss a crap load of money while I am there.
---I have to be the boss of your own career. Never leave my career in the hands of someone else.

Do that and the money will come. (might take longer in this economy, but it will happen)

when I took over the shop, we had 1 computer, a Summa DC2 and a 24" plotter in an office shared with a storage facility and the shop had never done a wrap. I had never made signs before or applied vinyl. We now have a multi-office building, a roland XC-540 a laminator and the same damn 24" plotter (I think the owner is emotionally attached to it). We went from offering yard signs and window decals to a full array of wide format products all on the research and work of the 24 year old (now 27) guy who had never made signs before. I feel like I have soaked up about all I can from this place. I've refreshed my website and resume, and I'm taking my first vacation in 3 years next week, I'll let you figure out what I will be using those 40 hours for.

 

[HulkSmash]

when I took over the shop, we had 1 computer, a Summa DC2 and a 24" plotter in an office shared with a storage facility and the shop had never done a wrap. I had never made signs before or applied vinyl. We now have a multi-office building, a roland XC-540 a laminator and the same damn 24" plotter (I think the owner is emotionally attached to it). We went from offering yard signs and window decals to a full array of wide format products all on the research and work of the 24 year old (now 27) guy who had never made signs before. I feel like I have soaked up about all I can from this place. I've refreshed my website and resume, and I'm taking my first vacation in 3 years next week, I'll let you figure out what I will be using those 40 hours for.

There's always denver

 

[ucmj22]

There's always denver

HA! Yeah I talked to the wife about that. she said it was a long, expensive & uncertain move. I really appreciate the offer though!

 

[jc1cell]

when I took over the shop, we had 1 computer, a Summa DC2 and a 24" plotter in an office shared with a storage facility and the shop had never done a wrap. I had never made signs before or applied vinyl. We now have a multi-office building, a roland XC-540 a laminator and the same damn 24" plotter (I think the owner is emotionally attached to it). We went from offering yard signs and window decals to a full array of wide format products all on the research and work of the 24 year old (now 27) guy who had never made signs before. I feel like I have soaked up about all I can from this place. I've refreshed my website and resume, and I'm taking my first vacation in 3 years next week, I'll let you figure out what I will be using those 40 hours for.

We're on the same boat here. Incredible how some owners just don't get it right. On my end, they bought a Valuejet to print the yard signs that they used to cut. I introduced them to dry install, vehicle wraps, Illustrator and Photoshop. Being their Printer Technician every time something goes bad on it, saving them thousands in tech fees.

What in return? Two 25 cent raises each in two years. I've been here four years already. They don't bother to go out and get new business. And any that does come in, they simply let sit for weeks before providing quotes. It drives me crazy!!! I've been forced to get side jobs and freelance because they don't move to get business.

You have the benefit of already being on the mainland. Your search will be easier. Mine, well. I think is going to be an uphill battle since I'm across the pond in Puerto Rico. My work history shows that I'm career minded and a hard worker. All I want to do is be productive and not sit on my ass all day for days on end. Feels like I'm wasting away. I'm not the most talented guy, but I can work, and work hard. Plus, I have character and good moral fiber. A 40 year old that feels like he's still in his twenties.

It's true, finding a good employee is hard. But for those of us that ARE good employees, finding a good employer has become very difficult as well.

jc

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Please, someone define "good employee".

 

[HulkSmash]

uncertain? couldn't be more certain if you ask me

 

[Rick]

when I took over the shop, we had 1 computer, a Summa DC2 and a 24" plotter in an office shared with a storage facility and the shop had never done a wrap. I had never made signs before or applied vinyl. We now have a multi-office building, a roland XC-540 a laminator and the same damn 24" plotter (I think the owner is emotionally attached to it). We went from offering yard signs and window decals to a full array of wide format products all on the research and work of the 24 year old (now 27) guy who had never made signs before. I feel like I have soaked up about all I can from this place. I've refreshed my website and resume, and I'm taking my first vacation in 3 years next week, I'll let you figure out what I will be using those 40 hours for.

I'm going to put on an employer hat for a minute. And this is what scared the crap out of me when I went searching for my 2nd job. Even though you took a shop from being a yard/window sign to a large format with a small plotter, what else do you know? Are you more than a digital sign designer. If I am a employer I probably want a fast production monkey, but vinyl/large format production designers do not make a whole lot of money unless you find a production shop that values that.

What part of the sign industry do you really want to get into.

I had been a graphic designer and learned how to letter signs with paint, then got out of graphics and into construction. When I got back into signs again, I worked as a grunt (thats what he liked to call me) for a vinyl/some paint guy that specialized in auto graphics. He canned me. I ended up sweeping floors at a high volume vinyl lettering shop. I only became the designer when they could not find anyone else to do it.

At one point I realized, there are more to signs than lettering semi trucks and wrapping busses. And who paid the most? Architectural, and who was doing fun design? Environmental graphic designers... and I headed toward that path. This is not the path to sign designer nirvana, just my path.

A production monkey is a fun and rewarding job, but when you are 30 - 35 with a kid or 2, the pay is probably not gonna cut it.

 

[signswi]

Designers know sign shops pay is usually low.

Designers also believe that sign shop design work is generally low end design work.

To many designers, it's an ego thing. They will complain and whine and may occasionally spit out a crappy design out of protest, but an underpaid designer that is talented, driven and good, will ultimately give in to vanity and produce good work. But they are probably thinking about, or looking for a better job the whole time.

Problem is a lot of sign shop owners think of themselves as sign shops not as digital large format inkjet print shops and really limit their audience and scope of work. So much potential being wasted all over the place and it drives us designers mad -- as you know very well.

and yes, in a small sign shop an employee is expected to wear many hats/ that's the nature and actually the joy of this type of business. If you want to sit at a monitor all day the sign business has limited opportunities. Actually the market rate for graphic designers is set by the supply and demand. Around here there are lots of schools (from Community Colleges, Art schools, 4 year Colleges and trade schools) churning out (mostly very mediocre) graphic designers and flooding the market. That combined with the fact that so many with a computer and a program consider themselves geniuses has diluted the value of the trade.

The supply of good designers is low (note: good), the demand is the issue in the sign industry -- not enough emphasis on good design in the middle and bottom. At the top agencies and in-house design teams suck up all the work. Add in to that the issue I brought up above (shop owners limiting the scope of their business artificially) and you get low demand. Which is why I look at designer wages as being one reason design work in the industry is so middling to poor -- bring the wages in line with the rest of the GD market (and it's not all that much) and you'll see better work from smaller shops. That in turn enables those shops to compete on something other than price, which we all know is a losing proposition.

Or keep scraping the bottom of the barrel for cheap workers and get crap results and wonder why you don't have a lot of repeat business from the more profitable sectors.

 

[ucmj22]

I'm going to put on an employer hat for a minute. And this is what scared the crap out of me when I went searching for my 2nd job. Even though you took a shop from being a yard/window sign to a large format with a small plotter, what else do you know? Are you more than a digital sign designer. If I am a employer I probably want a fast production monkey, but vinyl/large format production designers do not make a whole lot of money unless you find a production shop that values that.

The owners are only in the state about 6 months out of the year, So I do pretty much everything that the Owner/GM would do as well as all of the "grunt" work. we have some part time installers, But I still consider myself to be the most capable installer/vinyl monkey. The hardest thing for me has been, with so many positions I am required to fill, Where is the most effective place for me to be spending my time? installing, designing, selling...? there is a lot more that I know I could be doing, especially in my "Off" time, but after being moved to salary, and then having an extra hour added to my work week, which not only devalues my time, but requires me to pay for an extra hour of daycare every week, it has been increasingly hard to convince my wife, and lately even myself, that I should feel obligated to do more outside of work. My next move might not even be in the sign industry. As much as I love design, I feel I can market myself well with my "team leader" management skills to operate in an industry with more advancement opportunity, and better pay. I would have loved to grow with my current company, unfortunately I feel it has grown with out me.

 

[Ponto]

It's true, finding a good employee is hard. But for those of us that ARE good employees, finding a good employer as become very difficult as well.

jc[/QUOTE]


And once again, well said..............

JP

 

[Billct2]

bring the wages in line with the rest of the GD market (and it's not all that much)

Part of my point is the "jack of all trades" aspect of the small to middlin sign shop. Most need someone who can sell/design/produce/install, so those who want to just design and find the other parts of the trade "below" them (I've seen it) won't find much satisfaction or opportunities.

 

[Rick]

Part of my point is the "jack of all trades" aspect of the small to middlin sign shop. Most need someone who can sell/design/produce/install, so those who want to just design and find the other parts of the trade "below" them (I've seen it) won't find much satisfaction or opportunities.

I have seen it too... a designer working an a 1-4 person shop can pretty much expect to do or know most of it and expect to clean the toilet if asked.

One funny exchange I had my first week on the job was my boss asked me if I can sell when he was out of the shop... I said yes. I told him all I needed to know was what to charge. He said 'leave that to me', I respond 'how can I sell if I don't know what to charge?' He said 'let me handle that'.... I respond 'but you won't be there' we went back and forth until I realized... he didn't want me to know what he was charging... I told him I could care less what he was making, just pay me on time, keep your promises and I am happy. Just give me the tools to make the sale... he didn't budge.

I spend a few days by myself, tried to make sales without giving customers prices then realized he left me with keys to the place, the register full of money, an entry code to get in and thousand of dollars worth of supplies at my disposal... and he is worried about what me knowing what he was making. I had another place that wanted to hire me so I quit... I don't list that job on my resume

 

[cartoad]

Finding the right employee, and a good employee is a challenge to say the least. As a small shop, everyone has to design, clean, produce, install, and just about everything else that needs to be done. Hire a graphic artist and explain this, and in the interview they agree, not a problem, then when hired it is a different story. Hire someone with no background and while they find it interesting for a while, they lose interest when you are out digging in rocky ground to put up a sign.
To the question at hand, write a good add, screen carefully, check as much as you can, and yes test, test spelling, basic math, if they can use a tape measure and level, get them to talk about themselves. And a healthy dose of good luck. After hire do a weekly evaluation for the first 6 months.

 

[ProWraps]

we just drive by home depot at 7 am.

no joke. we have to bid against mosh like its "storage wars" but we find our man/10 year old.

 

[Desert_Signs]

We test every applicant. Don't want the job because of that? No problem--you wouldn't fit in here anyways.

By the way, our average pay including benefits is over $19 an hour. Just calculated it earlier this week.

Never taken one of those before. I found one (50 questions, 12 minutes). I scored 41. If it wasn't 1am, and having been at work since 6am, I think I could have done better. (3 of the questions I missed were bad math in my head; I knew how to get the answer, I just burned the actual math)

What kind of scores do you usually look for? What's good for this industry? As the hiring guy here, this might be something I'd like to utilize, but I need to know how!

 

[signswi]

I'm not a big fan of the wonderlic but it's used rather widely. More interesting to me is culture fit, which you can get through briggs myers or jungian testing methods in combination with culture fit interviewing methods.

On the "small shop designers should be jack of all trades" issue I'd rather see tiny shops contract freelancers or agencies than try to employ and grind down the soul of a full time designer . Invest in a good prepress/press operator guy, contract the design. You have more of the former than of the later as a small shop in most situations.

 

[Billct2]

I'd rather see tiny shops contract freelancers or agencies than try to employ and grind down the soul of a full time designer . Invest in a good prepress/press operator guy, contract the design. You have more of the former than of the later as a small shop in most situations.

Really? used to be this was a business that attracted people who were interested in doing a variety of tasks. Someone who doesn't want to be attached to a desk all day, but see a project from start to install.
And on a practical note, you're going to send out every design that you need? That just doesn't seem realistic.