How do you work with the limited art board size?

[TammieH]

Just work in scale, no biggie....

with every release from Adobe, I hope they will change the 227" sq max art board, ... until then...

Most things we do here are under 227" sq anyways.

 

[nikdoobs]

I just cringe every time I receive one of those "young creAtives" production ready files. It means I have my work cut out for me! Far too many of the "young creAtives" assume that a sign shop will be outputting their artwork on a web offset printer and provide their artwork in the CMYK colour space or worse yet, some obscure Pantone colour in various percentages to give it a "pastel" feel.

And don't get me started on outlines that are nothing more than a line weight (not set to scale with the image/artwork) instead of a proper contour (or "offset" in Illy parlance). A very real problem when the artwork is done at a smaller scale and needs to be scaled up for production purposes and all because of the limited art board size in Illustrator.

Or how about various shapes set to the background colour that are dropped here and there to cover up something that shouldn't be there in the first place.

Dan

Im just saying that most schools teach you photoshop, illustrator, rather than corel. There are always going to amatuers who will send you ****ty art files no matter what program they use.

 

[SightLine]

Just work in scale, no biggie....

with every release from Adobe, I hope they will change the 227" sq max art board, ... until then...

Most things we do here are under 227" sq anyways.

Same here.... really quite simple. Yes - it would be nice if Adobe would make the canvas itself larger. Have to differentiate between artboards and the canvas too. If they made the canvas 1000 feet but somehow restricted the artboards it would be of no help.

Those who say Adobe is not the industry standard are fooling themselves or simply do not work with any big marketing firms, advertising/design agencies, big gov't agencies, etc. In 10+ years the ONLY time we have ever had a Corel file sent to us was from a small business. Never once has a big agency ever sent us a Corel file. I'm not saying that's how it should be nor am I at all interested in an Adobe vs Corel debate. I actually wish Corel was more accepted as it would foster more competition, lower pricing, and additional growth in both. In the big business world, Adobe is the industry standard, it is what it is. Reading this thread I expected the snarky comments. Yep Illy has a big limitation there, is Corel perfect in every way? I seriously doubt it. I learned on Adobe so I'm an Illy user but I'm open to learning an alternative but at this time I see no real benefit in doing so. We literally get a dozen or more files from assorted clients every week that are 99% of the time Adobe files - the other 1% is the occasional Corel file or some idiotic office application file. I know CorelDraw is an excellent program but it just is not the standard that we have to deal with on a daily basis.

 

[nikdoobs]

I actually wish Corel was more accepted as it would foster more competition, lower pricing, and additional growth in both

Me too.

 

[Techman]

Im just saying that most schools teach you photoshop, illustrator,

I would like to know what schools "they" are talking about.

My son in "school" is spending bucks on CAD software including 3DMAX and Auto Cad and other like software. The only class he knows about that uses an adobe product is the photography class.

 

[David Wright]

Just wondering. All the people who usually receive just Adobe files, how do you know they are not generated in Corel?
Most Corel work I do is exported to .ai or .eps. Is there some way of knowing?

 

[nikdoobs]

I would like to know what schools "they" are talking about.

My son in "school" is spending bucks on CAD software including 3DMAX and Auto Cad and other like software. The only class he knows about that uses an adobe product is the photography class.

What school is your son in, and what is his major/concentration? I went to LSU for graphic design and there were no classes that taught Corel. This is as of 2006. I"m not saying that makes Corel a bad program (or that no one teaches Corel) but if you are studying graphic design with a concentration on print design the vector graphics program that is the industry standard is Adobe Illustrator.

3D Studio Max is often used for video games and non-print types of media. At LSU Auto Cad was mostly taught to Architecture majors.

Just wondering. All the people who usually receive just Adobe files, how do you know they are not generated in Corel?
Most Corel work I do is exported to .ai or .eps. Is there some way of knowing?

I was wondering the same thing. I would imagine I have received a lot of artwork done in Corel I just don't know it. Same thing goes for Corel users. When I send someone an art file I usually send an outlined .eps or .pdf so they can easily open it in whatever program they use.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I was wondering the same thing. I would imagine I have received a lot of artwork done in Corel I just don't know it. Same thing goes for Corel users. When I send someone an art file I usually send an outlined .eps or .pdf so they can easily open it in whatever program they use.

To me, this is what people should be doing.

I use one of the big programs that a lot of people would consider the industry standard for the embroidery digitizing world. It is directly interfaced with Corel. So while I'm using the industry standard for one industry, I am not in another. Now, I do have CS5, but not many people want to have Adobe after swallowing the pill for the other program, especially if they are using the full version. That's some of the considerations that I think should be taken into account and why I think it's good practice to send eps or pdf files. If you just have to send an Ai or CDR file at least attach a high res raster file along with it for comparison.

 

[J Hill Designs]

Just wondering. All the people who usually receive just Adobe files, how do you know they are not generated in Corel?
Most Corel work I do is exported to .ai or .eps. Is there some way of knowing?

open the eps with notepad - it will tell you within the first 10 lines or so.

 

[Bobby H]

Regarding the maximum art board size differences between Adobe Illustrator and CorelDRAW, one of the reasons why there is such a big difference has to do with how each application handles math units. Adobe is obviously more geared to smaller things. You can enter object dimensions out to four decimal points. OTOH, Corel only lets users edit out to three decimal points, but it can scale objects several times larger than AI.

Illustrator isn't perfect in how it computes mathematical situations. I can't remember the specifics about it (something about object scaling), but have seen it discussed at length in the Adobe user forums. This was in regards to the bone-headed move on Adobe's part to kill Macromedia Freehand -an app that bested Adobe Illustrator in many areas, including this math situation.

Regarding what schools are teaching what: any design curriculum devoting much or all of its time to teach how to point and click around in applications is a total waste of money. No one needs to go to art school to merely learn how to use a mainstream graphic design application like CorelDRAW or Adobe Illustrator. Those applications are easy enough to learn via how to books, numerous web sites dedicated to them and even lots of how to videos on YouTube, Vimeo, etc. A school teaching graphic design should be spending the overwhelming amount of class time covering things like visual problem solving, layout & composition, color theory, typography, studio/agency skills outside of merely using an app, portfolio, selling one's creative work, etc. Applications like Photoshop & Illustrator are so common and are easy enough to use that skills in those applications honestly should be a prerequisite to enter a school teaching graphic design. The only way I would sign up for a class just teaching how to use an application was if the application had a really difficult learning curve.

With that being said, I don't think it really matters what is being taught in schools. The work place is what matters. Every work place is different in its own way. And if you're in business for yourself you get to choose what hardware and software you prefer. If the designer is good enough he/she can adapt to most work situations, including switches between computing platforms.

Corel could try making inroads in certain print-oriented ad agencies, design studios, etc. by releasing a Mac-based version. But the folks up in Canada need to be doing a better job with CorelDRAW to have any chance at all of wooing over Mac-based users of Adobe Illustrator. CDR has certain annoying bugs that have been around for years. Lately they've been goofing up with these updates to throw in premium subscription features, like the font playground, but end up slogging down how type performs in the application.

 

[Rick]

Regarding what schools are teaching what: any design curriculum devoting much or all of its time to teach how to point and click around in applications is a total waste of money. No one needs to go to art school to merely learn how to use a mainstream graphic design application like CorelDRAW or Adobe Illustrator. Those applications are easy enough to learn via how to books, numerous web sites dedicated to them and even lots of how to videos on YouTube, Vimeo, etc. A school teaching graphic design should be spending the overwhelming amount of class time covering things like visual problem solving, layout & composition, color theory, typography, studio/agency skills outside of merely using an app, portfolio, selling one's creative work, etc. Applications like Photoshop & Illustrator are so common and are easy enough to use that skills in those applications honestly should be a prerequisite to enter a school teaching graphic design. The only way I would sign up for a class just teaching how to use an application was if the application had a really difficult learning curve.

 

[nikdoobs]

A school teaching graphic design should be spending the overwhelming amount of class time covering things like visual problem solving, layout & composition, color theory, typography, studio/agency skills outside of merely using an app, portfolio, selling one's creative work, etc. Applications like Photoshop & Illustrator are so common and are easy enough to use that skills in those applications honestly should be a prerequisite to enter a school teaching graphic design. The only way I would sign up for a class just teaching how to use an application was if the application had a really difficult learning curve.

This is how it was at LSU. I never actually took courses dedicated to photoshop or illustrator, but these are the programs that everyone used/ learned on. I taught myself these programs. I didn't even realize that Corel Draw isn't available on for Macs. This is probably the main reason it isn't as widely used in the design curriculum.

With that being said, I don't think it really matters what is being taught in schools. The work place is what matters. Every work place is different in its own way. And if you're in business for yourself you get to choose what hardware and software you prefer. If the designer is good enough he/she can adapt to most work situations, including switches between computing platforms.

I learned Flexi Sign at my first sign shop that I worked at and still use it now. I love it. I took a job @ another sign shop and was forced to learn sign builder. (Now that is a program that I seriously despise!) I got out of that job pretty quickly and the owner ended up selling the company soon after. Anyone on here use sign buidler?

 

[SignMan2u]

Hi everyone, I have been trying to move over to Illustrator after using Flexi Sign Pro for the last 10+ years. I really like Illustrator, but I continue to be frustrated with the limited art board size! I understand that some probably just scale larger signs, but many times, we will take a picture of a vehicle, scale it to size and then fit our lettering to adjust for rivets, windows etc. Scaling in this situation seems like a hassle! I also struggle with the text not being the actual size you type in - Illy seems to measure the text box instead of the actual text. I would love to have some veteran users explain their process to working with the limitations..... I would LOVE to use Illustrator 100% instead of bouncing back and forth with Flexi. Any input would be AWSOME!

The real question is "Why would you want to switch from Flexi to Illustrator?" I was a CasMate Pro (Scanvec) user from 1990 (DOS days) and as the software progressed, they decided to purchase Amiable (FlexiSign) to provide more of a stable programming platform due to the intense design functions/tools available within the CasMate. Slowly, Scanvec incorporated the more advanced design tools from CasMate into Flexi bringing back the design capabilities we CasMate users loved in order to save time. I worked with the developers at Adobe to bring enhancements to Photoshop the allow the end user to do certain things like "save custom color palettes after adjustments" for streamlined experiences. In 1993, the ICC came around but didn't have their stuff together and it took another 10 years for their idea to take hold, so I created a whole color management program all of my facilities to use as standard procedure during the 90s as well as complete process management for the sign industry for complete efficiency.

This brings me to the point. The sign business is unique business with many moving parts and all we really have to sell is 'Time" if you think about it. FlexiSign Pro (CasMate Pro) is by far the absolute best time saving software for vector designing for Master Users like myself and countless other designers I have trained over the past 20+ years. It even has Photoshop filter and bitmap features that assist in excellent ways but, Photoshop and FlexiSign are key software programs for designers to increase the production rate per hour within any sign company. Yes, I have written process management methods for the sign industry and trained international Fortune 500 corporations (50M - 300M annual sales) to increase production rate per hour (PRH) and yes, as a past speaker at the ISA's shows, I've offered much needed knowledge for sign industry owners and with this, I recommend that you stay with Flexi as your main sign design software since you have a 10 year history. Many do not take the time to really learn the tools and good work habits for movement within the software but, once one does, it's another world. No time wasting events by switching between design programs, no converting to metrics and back (wasted time. The space industry has plenty of time, you don't) and everything at 100% scale. Besides, Flexi is not spline based programming like Corel or other design programs and you get clean arcs and great Adobe algorithm compression features.

Good luck
JD

 

[Gene@mpls]

SignMan has it- I labored thru this entire discussion thinking exactly this. The same suspects will support AI and Corel [which are good for some things] but FlexiSign is a signmaking program and does it well and quickly. I have retrained several AI users and they all say- FlexiSign is the best for signs... it is right in the name. I has made me a moderately well off old fart who can now do whatever I want- playing with a new 3d printer right now. Turns out I am not very good at retiring... but I am great at making money. Better to be luck than smart.

 

[myront]

Let me add to some drawbacks of illustrator.
- All print/exports have to be on the artboard itself. Corel can do it no matter where it is on the workspace, as well as, "Selected Only"!
- Don't forget Corel has Photopaint that works in the same fashion as illy.
- no dimension tool
- Corel uses Visual Basic for a plethora of useful macros. Yes, I know about "Actions".
- Does illy even have a Print Merge feature?

 

[oldgoatroper]

Thing is that if the Corel driver was worth his salt you would never know he gave you a file produced in Draw.
If he/she is just giving you a .cdr then you need to hang out with a better class of Corel users.
Giving a printer a cdr file for production is about the same as getting a powerpoint ppt from a Government official.....

wayne k
guam usa

Egg-zack-ly!


Spent 15 years in a well-established print and signage business - primary tool was CorelDraw. Can do almost everything Illy can that one would need in the normal course of business, and because CorelDraw is multi-page, 98% of what of InDesign would ever be needed for, with resultant file sizes that are sometimes as small as 1-5% of the same layout done in InDesign.

Ideally, all artwork should be submitted via high-quality PDF with fonts converted to curves, transparencies flattened, etc. Designers that submit native files, Corel, Illy, InDesign or otherwise, need some lessons.

 

[shoresigns]

...because CorelDraw is multi-page, 98% of what of InDesign would ever be needed for, with resultant file sizes that are sometimes as small as 1-5% of the same layout done in InDesign.

Really? I don't know much about Coreldraw, but I've always been under the impression it was more comparable to Illustrator (i.e. an application for illustration and simple layouts, not complex/multipage layouts with grids, scripting and advanced typography).

 

[oldgoatroper]

Really? I don't know much about Coreldraw, but I've always been under the impression it was more comparable to Illustrator (i.e. an application for illustration and simple layouts, not complex/multipage layouts with grids, scripting and advanced typography).

Example: recently did a 32-page full-colour, full-bleed brochure with multi-column text flowing from one page to another, wrapping around objects, etc. CD supports text styles and paragraph styles, tabs (left, centre, right), indents, "out"dents, before/after paragraph spacing, line spacing. There is actually very little that it lacks in terms of text-handling.

In my opinion, CorelDraw is very viable for of nearly all of what most people might perceive they would need InDesign for. Granted CD is not as well suited as ID for very large jobs, but I would only put down CD and pickup ID if I were starting a 64+ page magazine.

If you think of Illy as an F350 Reg cab short-box with the passenger seat missing, then CoredDraw is an F350 CrewCab dually long-box with a fifth-wheel hitch able to pull a 30ft. goose-neck flat-bed triple-axle dually trailer... which would easily handle most of what a person might need to haul. Occasionally, you might need a full-fledged tractor-trailer with jeep (not Jeep) and oversize bed. That would be InDesign.

 

[Pippin Decals]

Possibly try right clicking on the file and see if it tells you ?

 

[shoresigns]

Example: recently did a 32-page full-colour, full-bleed brochure with multi-column text flowing from one page to another, wrapping around objects, etc. CD supports text styles and paragraph styles, tabs (left, centre, right), indents, "out"dents, before/after paragraph spacing, line spacing. There is actually very little that it lacks in terms of text-handling.

Those are all things that Illustrator can do.

I'm relatively new to InDesign, but the main things I would use it for are margins, easy grid setup, master pages, better page management, GREP search & replace, GREP styles, and the display performance options for working on large files. Those functions are the main advantages of InDesign over Illustrator. I was just wondering if Corel had a comparable app.