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How does this happen (I didn't do this sign)...

Discussion in 'Digital Printing' started by bendeane, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. bendeane

    bendeane Member

    Nov 10, 2009
    We are doing a sign to replace this one for a client. He says it has been up for 3 or 4 years. It is determinately printed on adhesive backed vinyl and laminated with a matte lamination. I don't know specs, but I do know it gets a lot of sun exposure.

    They want us to see if we can redo this and print on something that wouldn't do this (the client thought it was rust. It took some convincing to tell him vinyl doesn't rust...:banghead:). It is applied to alumacor panels. I've attached a picture of a similar sign printed but that has some protection from the sun for a good portion of the day, but if you look close at the bottom edge, you can see this phenomenon creeping up on that sign as well.

    Thanks for the input.

    Attached Files:

  2. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

    Sep 24, 2004
    not sure but it sure is a cool effect :thumb:
  3. dsmskyline

    dsmskyline Member

    Dec 16, 2010
    Phoenix, AZ
    Probably just the sun baking the overlam turning it brown. PLastic type products tend to do that when left in the sun for too long.
  4. CanuckSigns

    CanuckSigns Very Active Member

    Nov 11, 2008
    I've never seen that before! looks like when you leave a receipt on the dash of your car!

    DSM might be on to something, but i've never seen it before, maybe someone from Florida or Australia can chime in on weather they have seen this before with all the sun they get?

    Also, what is around the border that is stopping the brown from going right to the edges?
  5. JTBoh

    JTBoh I sell signage and signage accessories.

    Jun 15, 2011
    Clermont, FL
    ironically, orlando, FL has more overcast days than seattle, WA. The more you knoooow.

    My guess is that because the letters are black, the area over them is retaining heat more than the white surrounding. If it's on Alumicore, the metal may be heating up as well under the black. I'd guess it's the adhesive baking off under extreme heat. Try holding a thermometer to it and seeing just how hot it gets, and comparing that to the specs of what the laminate is usable for. Just a guess - I'm a sales guy, not a production guy ;)
  6. ChicagoGraphics

    ChicagoGraphics Major Contributor

    Feb 27, 2007
    It's the lmainate, I have seen the same thing is the pass where cheaper laminate is used and it turns brownish and or yellowish.
  7. TyrantDesigner

    TyrantDesigner Art! Hot and fresh.

    Mar 9, 2011
    Amarillo, TX
    I see this all the time ... but on big rigs who go through acid washes with their truck ... the acid turns the edges of prints purple (and can turn the adhesive into an orange paint staining compound.)
  8. Si Allen

    Si Allen Very Active Member

    Jul 17, 2004
    Cheap laminate without UV inhibitors!

    Vinyl will turn brown form the UV rays ... that is why they put in inhibitors when formulating it.

    Us old pharts remember the days before inhibitors ... was not fun!
  9. brdesign

    brdesign Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    Fuquay Varina NC
    I've seen that happen with cheap calendered laminate used on vehicle graphics. It does look just like rust, one time I peeled part of the laminate off and print underneath looked perfect.
  10. Pat Whatley

    Pat Whatley Major Contributor

    Sep 29, 2003
    Wetumpka, AL

    Wait, are you saying that the "brown background" is supposed to be white?
  11. bendeane

    bendeane Member

    Nov 10, 2009
    It is just alumacor endcaps...the cheap vinyl endcaps you can get from glantz or grimco....
  12. JR's

    JR's Very Active Member

    Sep 6, 2007
    swansea Ma 02777
    I've seen this before it is rust. You see it on things that are left out in the weather likes steel, old cars, old bike's. :)

  13. bendeane

    bendeane Member

    Nov 10, 2009
    Thanks for the input...

    Thanks for the feedback guys. I assumed it was a cheap lamination. I also assume if I use a good UV lamination that it will hold up to its advertised rating.

    Thanks again guys!
  14. bendeane

    bendeane Member

    Nov 10, 2009
    One more thing...

    Oh, by the way, what is everybody's calendared lam of choice for superior UV protection?
  15. Border

    Border Very Active Member

    Feb 8, 2007
    It's cheap laminate, not suited for that long-term application. I had the same thing happen to a print that I subbed out a few years ago...needless to say I don't send any work to them anymore!

    Attached Files:

  16. calbanner

    calbanner Member

    Apr 24, 2008
    Harbor City, California
    I have seen this before as well and was not quite sure why. After examining pictures, one might conclude that the top of the print is still white because
    it has still a bit more shelter from the roof and does not get as much sun exposure as the rest of the print.
  17. Sticky Signs

    Sticky Signs Very Active Member

    Nov 9, 2009
    I've only had a similar problem once. It was avery A6 silver vinyl printed with eco-sol max ink, unlaminated. Only the graphics on the hood and roof where affected by a brown "stain". The graphics on the side of the car where fine. I tried variouse products hoping the clean the brown but nothing worked. I was told that the car had been parked under a big tree for some time so I naturally came to the conclusion that the sap from the tree and sun had caused the browning. It doesn't look like you have any trees in the photo so now I'm rethinking my original conclusion. Seeing what other have written, it seems like the sun alone can do this. The weird thing is that I did several cars with the same graphics package and it was only the one that was parked under the tree that had the problem.
  18. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

    Jun 24, 2003
    they lammed it with clear regular vinyl instead of a good genuine laminate. I did it myself a few times and watched the overlam get just like that.
  19. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

    Oct 10, 2006
    Vaughan, Ontario
    If the sign is only 3 or 4 years old, I find it odd that a lamination of any type sold to sign shops would do this so early in its life.

    Let me rephrase that.... It makes no sense as to why the print would have been laminated at all, as the whole purpose of laminate is to protect and extend the life of the colours of the print.

    If the original print had not been laminated it may have had some fade after that period of time but not look so horrific!!

    On a side note... whats the difference between using a quality laminate on a print or using a 2ml clear vinyl? How much different are they? A 2 ml clear is supposed to have an 8 year outdoor life. just sayin
  20. gabagoo

    gabagoo Major Contributor

    Oct 10, 2006
    Vaughan, Ontario
    After reading what I wrote, I thought I would go to my back door to inspect 2 decals I put on it back in oct 2006 as a test to see how well the inks would hold to southern sunshine on a door that gets awfully hot in the summer.

    One was laminated with 3ml laminate and the other had none.

    Up until this spring...5 years after they were put on the only difference was that the unlaminated version had some noticeable fade but not to bad.

    10 minutes ago I looked and in those 2 months since I looked at them the change is incredible.

    The unlaminated one is almost devoid of any ink and the laminated version has the same rust look running along one side.

    The laminated version has that rust look running along the right side...so it is defiantely a laminate issue although I would choose that over having almost pure white graphics lol

    Now in reality, does anyone really expect to get over 5 years out of a digital print?

    take a look!!!

    Attached Files: