How honest are you?

[Fitch]

On another thread, it really got me thinking...

How many of you are in the sign business or in the business of doing signs?

Do you live sleep breath signs? Or do you just "do it" then go home? Until the next day.

I have to be honest... there seems to be quite a distinct differential between those that are employed / self employed / "been in the business for 50 years" / and Craftsmen - students and teachers of the trade.

This is my thread:

"hmmm...

This is both fact and discriminatory/

Round Man... God Bless...

Tomence... have some respect.

I know that Isign and many others can answer this but .... if you do not know what

A pounce is...
A fitch is...
An OHP is...
Terebine is...
Shellac is...
Smalts are...
HDU is...
NC file is...
Passover is...
Fast size, slow size is...
A DXF, 3DM, EPS, DWG, PLT, AI or STL files are...

You are SERIOSLY not in the sign game... merely computer operators that design within a program and print to a sticky substrate.

When you can do a quote to handpaint on Monday, do a dimensional sign on a cnc on Tuesday, Hand carve HDU and gild on Wednesday, install a digital print on DiBond on Thursday, and Airbrush a banner on Friday...

THEN... and ONLY THEN are you in the sign game.

This is my 15th year working for myself and still know Jack$hit.

When you get even CLOSE to me and I know nothing ... then I will listen to what you have to say.

Not before.

Imagine your days with no electricity. Can you survive past 3 months - I can.

Because and ONLY because I am TRULY in the sign game. Doesn't make me special; just willing to absorb all that the craft has to offer. CRAFT... a key word.

Oh Lord blessed be to those like OP and Isign.... they know where it's at... and can survive.


So there. "

Quite harsh maybe to some, but maybe quite honest to others.

Maybe there are many just in "the trade" for the $$$. Maybe there are some in it for the craft.

Steven King - the novelist once said " 95% of the people that walk this earth are inert. One percent are imbicile, one percent are genius. The other three percent are those that can do the things they say they can do".

Are you in the 3% ?

In the Sign trade, can you gild, airbrush, signwrite, output to digital, hand carve, apply vinyl mirror reverse on glass in the middle of winter, sculpt with Abracadabra, speed up paint dry time, slow down paint dry times, use Corel, Photoshop, Enroute, Rhino, MeshCam, use a CNC, a plotter?

Do you know the expansion difference between DiBond, PVC, HDU, and timber?

Do you use Polyurethane adhesive, fibreglass resin, water based and oil based paints?

Obviously I could go on.

Not being a smart a$$... just wondering what your committment to the industry is... as opposed to the job that you have which happens to be in the sign industry.

Me? After 15 years... still learning... up to date with new and still learning on old. But still here... and will be until I retire in another 20 or so years.

Because I love what I do. There is NO thought of changing my vocation (destiny maybe)

Have a great day ( and maybe a reality check)

Cheers... G

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Huh?

 

[J Hill Designs]

Get off the horse, bud.

 

[Letterbox Mike]

I keep re-reading this and I can't figure it out. Are you talking down to people that don't have the same focus or "dedication to the craft" as you? What are you asking here? What response are you looking for? Are you just trying to boost your ego or are you legitimately griping about someone/thing or just asking an honest non-confrontational question?

 

[J Hill Designs]

Sounds very very holier-than-thou to me...

 

[TheSellOut]

Preppies' always come in thinking they know it all!

 

[SignBurst PCs]

What? That is not exactly what I would have posted on my 11th post here.

Way to piss off 99% of the people you are talking to. Why come in here and do that?

These are good people making a living... and you seem to think that you are better than them.

 

[tcorn1965]

Greg,
Your post comes off as arrogant and "I am better since I am a true craftsman"

Your words-This is my 15th year working for myself and still know Jack$hit.
When you get even CLOSE to me and I know nothing ... then I will listen to what you have to say.

Not before.

Frankly I could give a flying f*&% who you will listen to or not. I am certainly glad that you graced us with your infinite wisdom and insight...Not.

Get over yourself.

Terry

 

[Marlene]

yep, I can answer all that stuff, so what? I have seen sign painters that have put out work so God awful it would make your eyes bleed to look at it. being able to hand paint is a talent but it doesn't make you a sing maker as there's a whole lot more to it than that. to say that a person MUST be able to define a fitch or be able to make a pounce pattern is nuts. people did signs by hand and by pouncing because that was all there was. people also used to drive to work in a buggy pulled by a horse because that too was all there was. if you can hand paint and your work looks great, that is a talent and that is always a value. to look down on anyone who does their work differently is wrong. I do agree that too many buy a computer and a plotter and think that make them a sign maker. there's a lot to know from materials to design, from zoning and permitting to marketing.

I too am not sure just what your thread's intent is. if some one has no clue what a pounce pattern is, could it be because they are living in 2010 and not 1965?

 

[Farmboy]

I agree. I'm in the wrong business. I should have been a psychologist, cause there are tons of crazy $hits out there (and here). Hell, mine gets $150 and hour and I'm still squirrelly.

 

[OneUpTenn]

Okay I dont know what HALF the crap you mentioned is.....but you know what? I am helping feed my family especially since my husband is a contractor and do not know what we do if not for my (is it okay if I call it?) sign business.

And as far as you "listening" to what I have to say.......BAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah I could care less.

Oh and surviving without electricity....WTF? Dude how many days have you ever had to "survive" without electricity? If you would pay your electric bill instead of wasting time posting this BS then you wont have to "survive" without electricity.

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Honesty, huh! Even though your post is B.S., I'll waste a few minutes....
Well, I'm by no means a sign craftsman like some people on here... the only brush I know how to use is the one I do my teeth with every day!

First and foremost, my business is in the business of producing PRINT! That's a HUGE umbrella when you stop to think about it. I live, breathe and bleed PRINT... I started the "education process" in 1978 when I was 16 and set my first piece of hot lead type in high school. 32 years later, I am partner in a successful PRINT franchise. We do offset and digital printing encompassing everything from business cards to banners (oohhhh I think I just discovered a cool tag line !!!).
Secondly, we're in the business of making money... why else would I be doing this? And yes, I consider myself a craftsman at what I do!

I have no clue what:
A pounce is...
A fitch is...
An OHP is...
Terebine is...
Shellac is...
Smalts are...
HDU is...
NC file is...
Passover is...
Fast size, slow size is...
A DXF, 3DM, EPS, DWG, PLT, AI or STL files are... but hey, I am smart enough to learn if it had any relevance to what it was I do.

Does that mean that I'm NOT in the sign game! Um, no! I am in the business of putting PRINT on media, and depending on your definition of what a sign is, that could include making signs or not! I guess the question that needs to be answered is; "How do you define a sign?". Is a piece of construction paper with "Garage Sale" written on it in black sharpie considered a sign? If so, then yes, I'm in the business of making signs, albeit slightly better than that sharpie marker one!!!

All that said, it's obvious that I'm not worthy enough for you to even read my post...

When you get even CLOSE to me and I know nothing ... then I will listen to what you have to say.

So, I guess I just wasted my time typing all of this...! Oh... couple more things (although you're not reading this, because I'm not worthy of your time)... If we were without power for 3 months, we'd have more important things to worry about than if we can pick up a @#$@#$ brush and paint a sign... unless of course that sign reads "The End is Near".

When you (obviously) brag about your skills....

In the Sign trade, can you gild, airbrush, signwrite, output to digital, hand carve, apply vinyl mirror reverse on glass in the middle of winter, sculpt with Abracadabra, speed up paint dry time, slow down paint dry times, use Corel, Photoshop, Enroute, Rhino, MeshCam, use a CNC, a plotter?

I'd like to see you use your airbrush, output to digital, Corel, Photoshop, Enroute, Rhino, MeshCam, a CNC router or a plotter without that power you were mentioning...

You are SERIOSLY not in the sign game... merely computer operators that design within a program and print to a sticky substrate.

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess this is exactly what I am, and I make a very, very good living at it... SO THERE!!!

 

[JR's]

I commend you on your knowledge of the sign business and sign kraft.
There were a couple of items that you was talking about that I did not know what they were.
But just because a sign person doesn't know how to paint or airbrush a sign doesn't mean they are bad at their craft. You don't have to do it all to be good at your craft.

I knew this little coffee shop, they didn't have fancy pastries or flavored coffees but if you wanted a good cup of coffee,that was the place to go.

So you could do it all or just do one thing and do that one thing really well.

What I'm trying to say I think your a sign painter or artist if you make a handprint on a cave wall or your lying on your back painting a masterpiece on a church ceiling.

Just my thought. It sounds like you are having a good time.

JR

 

[R08]

 

[Red Ball]

36 years and still learning.

A pounce is...electric, wheel, bag or pattern?
A fitch is...don't forget cutter, quill or flat
An OHP is...no clue sorry
Terebine is...again sorry
Shellac is...stinky
Smalts are...really cool
HDU is...a fine celled foam thingy
NC file is...a router file?
Passover is...A Jewish Holiday?
Fast size, slow size is...Silver and Gold
A DXF, 3DM, EPS, DWG, PLT, AI or STL files are...mostly a pain to import into Omega.

You forgot a few...

Rubylith...
Durometer...
Viscosity...
Mesh count...
Off contact...

Little Beaver...

And if you want to do this for more than a short time....
True cost of product...
Government tax rates...
Government environmental regulations...
Occupational safety regulations...
Employee true cost...

Ooops, back to work...

 

[Rick]

I think you are trying to say... experience, used well, is worth something.

If you are trying to say that then I agree... just a long winded way of saying it. Problem with the thread you are referencing to is, most sign people will never work with 3/4ths of the items you are talking about... does that make them any less of a sign maker?

By the way, you forgot Illustrator w/CadTools, cone of sight, wayfinding, ADA, fire safety signs, thematic design, environmental graphics, FRP, vacuum forming, walldogging, screen printing, photopolymer, MUTCD, precast concrete, theme park signage, ride experience graphics, sign schedule.... all this knowledge does not make me better... just adds to services I can offer.

The sign guy you mention may have an attitude, but really, why worry about him if you have all these skills.

 

[Fitch]

JHillDesigns I will disregard.

Insignia:I would NEVER talk down to someone that does not have the same focus. Yes I am questioning "dedication to the craft... considering this is a SIGNS forum - meaning all styles / types / formats of the sign business. I am not seeking any "response' - merely asking a question of individuals as to their diversity, ability and committment in the sign industry.

I have to be honest and do NOT consider those that simply do wraps or digital printouts, a master of the signage industry - no matter how good your printer is. My point is purely that there is so much more to the craft and being able to cover all facets is very very fulfilling. The fact that one cannot pinstripe, hand letter, gild, carve etc is only confirming my original post. There no doubt would be people that would think " I would love to be able to do that"... on the other hand there will be people that will "run away" and still say "I am a great designer and a great digital printer". And even more honest... some of the logos / designs etc on here are $hit... yet all others can do is bitch about how bad they are and why they should not be here... without actually helping the person with valid pointers as to how to improve. Heck I have even read comments by Administrators bagging someone's genuine attempt. That sucks. Obviously some people do not have the calibre, the experience or the ability to point someone in the right direction.

I am NOT trying to boost my ego. Number one I do not have an ego, number 2 I do not feel have to - my work and longevity speaks for itself ( [NOW I KNOW THIS WILL SOUND EGOTISTICAL - BUT NOT INTENDED TO] and has been recognised internationally by industry associations Signcraft etc. When your work is published I think that is a reasonable basis for recognition by peers).

I really am simply asking a non confrontational question.

I REALLY do hope this clarifies things

Chin Chin

 

[Si Allen]

Seems to me that he is asking "Are you a master of your craft, or just a day laborer?"
Similar to are you a real carpenter that can build a complete house, including the cabinets and furniture, or are you just a guy with a nail gun? Or are you a mechanic that can diagnose a problem and can rebuild an engine and transmission, or just a parts changer?

I started in this business , full time, 43 years ago ... and still find out that I am learning something new every day!

well ... I guess he will piss off some people on here that have hundreds of post, but still don't know squat ... but have very high opinions of themselves!

Just my 2¢ worth.

 

[Tim Aucoin]

Is it April 1st in Australia already?? :ROFLMAO: That was a good one... you got me big time!!! April 1st isn't for another 6 days here in North America...:ROFLMAO:

 

[HaroldDesign]

I am not dedicated to the craft, nor do I know anything. Now that you mention it- it's pretty stupid that I paid for a subscription to this forum. Nobody should get involved with anything related to the knowledge base here without first knowing enough to start a forum of their own. This is my last post.