How much would you charge?

[oyy0]

751 is junk. I am a huge Oracal fan but 751 is the worst.

Can you elaborate? Big difference between the 751 and 951? I've been out of the know in this stuff for a long time, would be nice to know from first hand knowledge.

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[RayGun]

As far as pricing goes, our shop based a lot of pricing on the Sign Contractors Pricing guide. We don't adhere to it strictly, but it helps get us in the ballpark. SignCraft also has a Pricing Guide out there that may be helpful. I also have talked with a few "old-timers" that go with the 400% + Labor &Shop formula. That is to say, find your material cost per sq ft and make sure to charge 4x that. So if you purchase a 651 roll 24"x50yd roll at $85.72, your cost per sq ft is $0.34. That means you should be (at minimum) charging $1.36/sqft material. Then you have your artwork/digital conversion of artwork time-I would spec this job right at 1 hr or $75. Once that's done you'd run your shop fees (power, machines, consumables like ink or cutting blades). This is something that will differ from shop to shop. We run an easy $5/sqft shop fee. Some people include transfer tape in that charge, some don't. So now we're at $6.36 /sqft and you used (I'm guessing by the image) about 50 sqft of material. (Yes, count the drop material not just the material on the truck) Finally, price your install. We had one installer charging us $5/sqft and his stuff was only good enough for fleet vehicles. We now use an award winning, 3M certified installer that charges $3-3.75 sqft (depending on complexity). So let's say he'd charge $3.50 for this job. Toss on $1 because you've secured the work from a reputable installer and we're at $10.86 /sqft.
50sqft of job @ $10.86/sqft = $543. + your design time. $618 +tax would be around the ballpark of what a majority of people would charge.
But this is just an example - maybe it's low, maybe it's high. Just my two cents -

 

[TimToad]

Can you elaborate? Big difference between the 751 and 951? I've been out of the know in this stuff for a long time, would be nice to know from first hand knowledge.

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The first digit is meant to denote how many years the manufacturer "expects" it to last outside.

ie. 751 has been tested and deemed capable to last 7 years "on average" outside under normal circumstances. 951= 9 years

That being said and before any of the pinheads start denying the existence of climate change, the environmental impacts of it on our materials cannot be ignored. I've seen many sign painters complaining about how much worse 1Shot is these days without acknowledging that perhaps its not just the paint quality affecting its durability.

I'm not sure when the media manufacturers will adjust their expectations, but we all certainly should be downgrading how long we think things will stand up to increasing atmospheric pollutants, UV, etc.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

If you're in a smaller town you can charge a lot more because you don't have that much competition, and a lot of times what competition there is is already booked up. I got $1,100 to install a customer provided 30' banner on a wall, in this far-flung small Texas town where the nearest sign company was an hour away. Granted they needed next day turn around and it required a bucket, but still who else would they have got to get it done? Point is if you're in a small town don't think you have to be cheap.

 

[Johnny Best]

I like the 3M Scotchal 7125 or 7725 series cast better than the Oracal 751. But think they both will hold up the same.

 

[ddarlak]

I've seen many sign painters complaining about how much worse 1Shot is these days without acknowledging that perhaps its not just the paint quality affecting its durability.

no, sorry, i'm a climate changer and this is a ludicrous statement, It is 100% the new paint formula causing it to suck ass...

as to OP, when did 651 degrade??? the minute you started using it on vehicles.....

 

[Gino]

The first digit is meant to denote how many years the manufacturer "expects" it to last outside.

ie. 751 has been tested and deemed capable to last 7 years "on average" outside under normal circumstances. 951= 9 years

That being said and before any of the pinheads start denying the existence of climate change, the environmental impacts of it on our materials cannot be ignored. I've seen many sign painters complaining about how much worse 1Shot is these days without acknowledging that perhaps its not just the paint quality affecting its durability.

I'm not sure when the media manufacturers will adjust their expectations, but we all certainly should be downgrading how long we think things will stand up to increasing atmospheric pollutants, UV, etc.

So, now the air is having an impact on the paint ?? Nothing to do with many of the ingredients were taken out, to make it safe so little kids can eat window sills. You can see it as you use it, it's not like it used to be, but I guess as soon as you open the can, the air has done its diligent best to ruin it, huh ?? It's like painting with snot. You hafta double and even triple coat it for some colors. When spraying, it still doesn't have the hiding power.

Cripes, you have a conspiracy theory for everything..... whether it makes sense or not. ​

 

[oyy0]

As far as pricing goes, our shop based a lot of pricing on the Sign Contractors Pricing guide. We don't adhere to it strictly, but it helps get us in the ballpark. SignCraft also has a Pricing Guide out there that may be helpful. I also have talked with a few "old-timers" that go with the 400% + Labor &Shop formula. That is to say, find your material cost per sq ft and make sure to charge 4x that. So if you purchase a 651 roll 24"x50yd roll at $85.72, your cost per sq ft is $0.34. That means you should be (at minimum) charging $1.36/sqft material. Then you have your artwork/digital conversion of artwork time-I would spec this job right at 1 hr or $75. Once that's done you'd run your shop fees (power, machines, consumables like ink or cutting blades). This is something that will differ from shop to shop. We run an easy $5/sqft shop fee. Some people include transfer tape in that charge, some don't. So now we're at $6.36 /sqft and you used (I'm guessing by the image) about 50 sqft of material. (Yes, count the drop material not just the material on the truck) Finally, price your install. We had one installer charging us $5/sqft and his stuff was only good enough for fleet vehicles. We now use an award winning, 3M certified installer that charges $3-3.75 sqft (depending on complexity). So let's say he'd charge $3.50 for this job. Toss on $1 because you've secured the work from a reputable installer and we're at $10.86 /sqft.
50sqft of job @ $10.86/sqft = $543. + your design time. $618 +tax would be around the ballpark of what a majority of people would charge.
But this is just an example - maybe it's low, maybe it's high. Just my two cents -

Thanks the detailed work down. This will help a lot. I'm not here to undercut everyone around me, I want to stay competitive and make what I should make off of the work. I really appreciate the input.

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[oyy0]

The first digit is meant to denote how many years the manufacturer "expects" it to last outside.

ie. 751 has been tested and deemed capable to last 7 years "on average" outside under normal circumstances. 951= 9 years

That being said and before any of the pinheads start denying the existence of climate change, the environmental impacts of it on our materials cannot be ignored. I've seen many sign painters complaining about how much worse 1Shot is these days without acknowledging that perhaps its not just the paint quality affecting its durability.

I'm not sure when the media manufacturers will adjust their expectations, but we all certainly should be downgrading how long we think things will stand up to increasing atmospheric pollutants, UV, etc.

Understandable, thanks for the information.

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[oyy0]

If you're in a smaller town you can charge a lot more because you don't have that much competition, and a lot of times what competition there is is already booked up. I got $1,100 to install a customer provided 30' banner on a wall, in this far-flung small Texas town where the nearest sign company was an hour away. Granted they needed next day turn around and it required a bucket, but still who else would they have got to get it done? Point is if you're in a small town don't think you have to be cheap.

You're right, I'll keep that in mind. Like I've said, I just don't want to undercut anyone so much that I'll be losing on profits. I want to be competitive in the pricing.

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[oyy0]

I like the 3M Scotchal 7125 or 7725 series cast better than the Oracal 751. But think they both will hold up the same.

I'm always willing to try new materials, I'll look into this, thanks.

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[oyy0]

no, sorry, i'm a climate changer and this is a ludicrous statement, It is 100% the new paint formula causing it to suck ***...

as to OP, when did 651 degrade??? the minute you started using it on vehicles.....

See, that's the thing I've always used 651, back in the day. I started back in 2002, stopped when I joined the Marines, then went back to doing just little stuff here and there after I got out.
I know materials have gotten better, wrapping is the thing now, cast seems to be the standard.
I'll get on board with everything soon enough. Thanks.

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[Gino]

Thank you for your service. ​

 

[ams]

Can you elaborate? Big difference between the 751 and 951? I've been out of the know in this stuff for a long time, would be nice to know from first hand knowledge.

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The half a dozen rolls I've used of 751, it has low tack adhesive and rips extremely easy. Doesn't stretch even the slightest. It's bad.

 

[equippaint]

They will blow your tire when you run over it. View attachment 133886

Actually the alarming decline of the frog population has been attributed to global warming. Just saying

 

[TimToad]

The half a dozen rolls I've used of 751, it has low tack adhesive and rips extremely easy. Doesn't stretch even the slightest. It's bad.

Low tack adhesive? Rips extremely easy?

We've been using it for years on all manner of substrates and while it may not stretch like a cast "wrap" media, it has performed as expected here in a place where our temperatures range from below freezing to over 110. 60 degree daily temperature swings are as common as the sun coming up.

The other day we cut some 3/16" tall letters with some and it adhered to a piece of ACM just fine. We see cut vinyl vehicles we've done with it four years ago that look like the day we did them.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Odd you have issues with it. I used some 751 on my new truck and had some extreme parts that it stretched over real well. I made a 6" thick red line from the grille to the tailgate and it went over the everything...including the hinges of the tool boxes just fine.... with some heat of course. Didn't rip or give me any trouble.

 

[oyy0]

you get what you pay for.

651 on a truck....and he's your friend?

Work is work and friends are friends....

that job should have been done in cast and no cheaper than $600, or else you are nothing but a hack...

Thanks for the input. I'm not a good friend...

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[oyy0]

Thank you for your service. ​

Thank you. I would still be in but things don't always turn out how you want.

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[unclebun]

I'm also in a small area. But price is arbitrary to a point. That truck cost how much? Did the town affect that purchase too?

I'm on a 13mile island and next to a po dunk town area called Yulee north east of Jax. I get $90 an hour / 125 an hour out of shop for labor, the rest you need to calculate on a spread sheet per job to ensure you are making money to help grow you & your business.

I have a customer in Yulee!