How to Determine Pole Depth of Pre-Existing Pylon Sign

[Rick]

Doesn't it look like a Burger King sign? (oh Arbys!)

If so, isn't that a square logo that would possibly make a square sign?

It might be safe to say - after all the surveying and information that if that sign was square, and you essentially designed a sign with twice the area, that you have most likely over-extended the capacity of the posts and footing.

Why design a panel that size in the first place without knowing what was going in, it's kind of hard to go back now and reduce it, unless of course you have shown a square option in case this didn't fly.

 

[Rick]

Are you using a sign engineer?

Ask the city first if it will fly,
I think I would make a drawing of the original sign and reverse engineer that using all the information you currently have.

Then add the new sign and calculate if the panel will work. Since your new sign is not as high, maybe it can handle the extra square footage.

 

[Marlene]

The poles/base was built for a taller than wide sign and now you want to put a wider than tall sign on the same system. I sure wouldn't want to do that. The taller than wide had a center pole going up thru it and the left & right sides had more support as they didn't stick out all that much. Now the sign will be long with the only support coming from the center pole with a ton of square footage unsupported on either side. In a high wind that could be a huge issue.

 

[ams]

Oh great, a pissing contest. Are we gonna base it on distance, volume, PMS Yellow color match - or the fact that I've been pissing in footings for nearly 40 years. You can't tell what a footer is based on the grass.

No but there are also state laws that prevent footers from being in certain areas and easements. You can clearly see that there isn't enough ratio to support it, unless it was insanely deep. refer to a structural calculator to see what I mean. But I am not going to debate it with you.

 

[ams]

Also that sign should have a two pole support straight up into the cabinet.

 

[Rick]

No but there are also state laws that prevent footers from being in certain areas and easements. You can clearly see that there isn't enough ratio to support it, unless it was insanely deep. refer to a structural calculator to see what I mean. But I am not going to debate it with you.

Now I'm confused by your statement... certain footers and depths can be limited in certain areas because of easements? And the state regulates that? I thought since 2014, the State of Virginia uses the same IBC code that the rest of the states use with only minor adjustments, and I incorrect? I've done quite a few projects in Virginia, well, all over the US and I don't recall submitting anything to a state entity for easement restrictions unless it was State DOT related but still have yet to deal with restrictions on how deep a footing can go. The only restrictions on depth I have ever come across is frostline, waterline and utilities and I determine those restriction based on existing conditions, then present the engineered drawing to the entity signing off the permit.

In this case, since the sign exists would mean that the sign is well within any easement restrictions, any depth restrictions would be the same, frostline, waterline, utilities... as far as the concrete PSI - since it is a constant in the case of the existing sign, the engineer can determine what would have been required on the existing signs given the parameters of the existing sign. Since I can't see any plate attachments, j-bolt attachment or direct burial - I still do not understand how you can determine it's inability to support the new sign, let alone the existing. The footing is not exposed so again, I can not see how that could be determined without a survey.

You can't debate anything you have no proof of... you can't make an inaccurate or ill-informed statement and then not expect a response...

 

[ams]

Now I'm confused by your statement... certain footers and depths can be limited in certain areas because of easements? And the state regulates that? I thought since 2014, the State of Virginia uses the same IBC code that the rest of the states use with only minor adjustments, and I incorrect? I've done quite a few projects in Virginia, well, all over the US and I don't recall submitting anything to a state entity for easement restrictions unless it was State DOT related but still have yet to deal with restrictions on how deep a footing can go. The only restrictions on depth I have ever come across is frostline, waterline and utilities and I determine those restriction based on existing conditions, then present the engineered drawing to the entity signing off the permit.

In this case, since the sign exists would mean that the sign is well within any easement restrictions, any depth restrictions would be the same, frostline, waterline, utilities... as far as the concrete PSI - since it is a constant in the case of the existing sign, the engineer can determine what would have been required on the existing signs given the parameters of the existing sign. Since I can't see any plate attachments, j-bolt attachment or direct burial - I still do not understand how you can determine it's inability to support the new sign, let alone the existing. The footing is not exposed so again, I can not see how that could be determined without a survey.

You can't debate anything you have no proof of... you can't make an inaccurate or ill-informed statement and then not expect a response...

VDOT has certain regulations about signage within their right of way, also if the footer was under a parking spot and the sign fell over, it would rip up the parking lot, potentially causing vehicle damage or serious injury. Just like you can't bury a footer underneath a road.

As for the poles, the more open the sign is, the better. If you have 20% air flow, a smaller footer and pole diameter is okay, but for 100% blocked sign, it won't support it.

 

[Rick]

VDOT has certain regulations about signage within their right of way, also if the footer was under a parking spot and the sign fell over, it would rip up the parking lot, potentially causing vehicle damage or serious injury. Just like you can't bury a footer underneath a road.

As for the poles, the more open the sign is, the better. If you have 20% air flow, a smaller footer and pole diameter is okay, but for 100% blocked sign, it won't support it.

Huh? I don't know what to say, so here's a rabbit with a pancake on his head,,,

 

[Gino]

What, no syrup ??

 

[Rick]

What, no syrup ??

Here, but please acknowledge the following disclaimer before partaking of this product...

WARNING: This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause , cancer, diabetes, birth defects or other reproductive harm.

 

[Gino]

As long as it doesn't give me diarrhea..................

 

[Sign consultant]

Get an engineering drawing dine that you would need for city too

 

[GAC05]

I pray the OP knows this is the most unqualified statement I think I have ever read on this site, please ignore...

Oh great, a pissing contest. Are we gonna base it on distance, volume, PMS Yellow color match - or the fact that I've been pissing in footings for nearly 40 years. You can't tell what a footer is based on the grass.

Imagine my surprise at finding a pissing contest based on the length and girth of poles on signs101.

 

[Rick]

Imagine my surprise at finding a pissing contest based on the length and girth of poles on signs101.

AMS did say he worked on a 50 footer...

 

[equippaint]

Put up the same sign and call it a sombrero. There, problem solved.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Why is your new sign so big? Seems overly big for that area.

 

[Rick]

Yes there was an Arbies previously, here are some photos. The sign they had there before is smaller by a couple feet.

I believe if I take the photo and scale it, it's more than a "couple of feet" More like 50 - Also looks like some measurements need verifying...

This is where I would have an engineer calculate the existing sign - and even see if it's realistic to assume the foundation can take the added 52 square feet. Otherwise you might want to make that sign 15' x 10'

 

[Marlene]

Here, but please acknowledge the following disclaimer before partaking of this product...

WARNING: This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause , cancer, diabetes, birth defects or other reproductive harm.

Not Mrs Butterworth's! At least use real maple

 

[HDvinyl]

Huh? I don't know what to say, so here's a rabbit with a pancake on his head,,,

I see you.

 

[JTBoh]

I believe if I take the photo and scale it, it's more than a "couple of feet" More like 50 - Also looks like some measurements need verifying...

This is where I would have an engineer calculate the existing sign - and even see if it's realistic to assume the foundation can take the added 52 square feet. Otherwise you might want to make that sign 15' x 10'

I know this is off topic a bit... But what tool do you use to get the "actual square footage" of the Army's hat? Been looking for something like that for years.