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How to Print true CMYK ???

B

Biggermens

New Member
Hi there everyone

i am trying to do a few test prints of 4 squares C M Y K
and its pretty clear that is not 100% Yellow and the other colors are not 100% also
I export my file from corel as a eps and use the default settings, open in versaworks and print

I sure i am doing something wrong or is it even possible to print true CMYK ??

Thanks
Biggs
 
E

equippaint

Active Member
perfectpdf said:
Design in RGB
Export as a PDF using RGB
Don't listen to anything different.
Click to expand...
What about pantones? I do almost everything except raster images in cmyk and export it the same. Im no expert by any means but most customer supplied design in in cmyk and offset printing wants files in cmyk as well. Might as well keep it simple and cmyk is easier for me personally.
 
P

ProPDF

New Member
I was speaking in terms of digital eco-solvent printing only using a vector based program and should have clarified. There are a lot of factors in a print operation more than I have time to list. There is so much misinformation out there that it will confuse a lot of people. I think dealer sales reps are a majority of the problem. Color is a profession in and of itself so most of us have trouble. I am not an expert but definitely not a novice. The few color experts I have seen explain digital eco-solvent printing correctly and fix my workflow have said the same thing and it makes sense. However these guru's were in the minority of the information I was given. CMYK is safe for a lot of shops and good enough for most. RGB can get you CMYK and more. Your properly profiled CMYK printer IS capable of outputting more colors than what is inside the CMYK color gamut.

Design in CMYK: Good enough (can be an average print shops safe space)
Design in RGB: Best

CMYK Color space: SMALLER than RGB
RGB Color space: LARGER than CMYK

CMYK solvent inkset printer: Can output colors beyond CMYK values

File/Image type: Garbage in Garbage out

Incorrect printer profile: None of the above matter.

If you design in CMYK and have a printer with a million color inkset it doesn't matter. You will print CMYK colors if you have good CMYK ink.
If you design in RGB and have a printer with a CMYK or more million color inkset it will achieve/output more colors than your workflow that restricts you to CMYK in and CMYK out.

If you want a safe space and good enough printer buy a latex or solvent and run your whole shop in CMYK.

If you want to be able to offer customers the best color options and the best color control: Buy a solvent machine or non HP latex to be specific and design in RGB and use printers with as many ink colors as possible.

I was told to not buy a current Latex machines if my workflow was very color critical. Everyone who rants and ravs about latex isn't wrong necessarily because that machine is good enough for them but they will get taken to the cleaners with a custom profiled Epson CMYK printer especially the S80600.

You can see even some print suppliers online will say only send us PDF's in RGB. There is a reason they don't want CMYK print files. Last time I checked signs365 was one of them and I will attach a DTG supplier screenshot as well who is still WRONG that DTG is an exception but in general overall they are right in why they also say send us RGB PDF's only.
 

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I

ikarasu

Active Member
Not to be a dick, but how does this have anything to do with OP's question?


He wants to print in pure C M Y K... As in a pure cyan square, a pure Magenta, etc.

Why? Maybe he wants to see if one of his heads is having a problem... Maybe he wants to test for ink starvation... Maybe something else. But it doesn't sound like he's trying to hit a color not in the CMYK spectrum.

I don't know Versaworks or I Would have replied. I presume there is a way to turn profiles off... If so do a CMYK file, make sure profiles is off and it shouldn't change it from 100/0/0/0, 0/100/0/0 etc, and you'll print 100% of the colors with nothing mixed.

In onyx theres a dropper tool that you can use to hover over a color, and it'll tell you the CMYK values it's going to print at... not sure if there is one in versaworks... Hopefully someone with experience in versaworks can reply!
 
P

ProPDF

New Member
ikarasu said:
Not to be a dick, but how does this have anything to do with OP's question?


He wants to print in pure C M Y K... As in a pure cyan square, a pure Magenta, etc.

Why? Maybe he wants to see if one of his heads is having a problem... Maybe he wants to test for ink starvation... Maybe something else. But it doesn't sound like he's trying to hit a color not in the CMYK spectrum.

I don't know Versaworks or I Would have replied. I presume there is a way to turn profiles off... If so do a CMYK file, make sure profiles is off and it shouldn't change it from 100/0/0/0, 0/100/0/0 etc, and you'll print 100% of the colors with nothing mixed.

In onyx theres a dropper tool that you can use to hover over a color, and it'll tell you the CMYK values it's going to print at... not sure if there is one in versaworks... Hopefully someone with experience in versaworks can reply!
Click to expand...


You just proved my point why my response has everything to do with the OP. You just gave him wrong information. The bulk of my second reply was in response to equippaint to answer your question but was relevant to OP. When OP said he did a C M Y K print and it didn't come out %100 true he felt, I was assuming he already made it the correct %100 CMYK values because you can't type the word CYAN in your values dialog box and poof it prints %100 CYAN. Part of your answer is right though he does need to make sure the CMYK values are correct to start.

OP needs to tell us about the nozzle check media/ink he is using and does his profile match the media/ink. If that doesn't get sorted caring about color output obtained is putting the cart before the horse.
 
C

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
Biggermens said:
Hi there everyone

i am trying to do a few test prints of 4 squares C M Y K
and its pretty clear that is not 100% Yellow and the other colors are not 100% also
I export my file from corel as a eps and use the default settings, open in versaworks and print

I sure i am doing something wrong or is it even possible to print true CMYK ??

Thanks
Biggs
Click to expand...
Try reading through a seven page document from Roland, “Custom Color Management Presets in Roland VersaWorks” and notice an option to “Preserve Primary Colors” found in a Color Management Properties dialog of VersaWorks. Also try printing any or all of the RDGA standard print files to gauge results.

It’s good that you’ve noticed your solids are faulty and yes, it’s possible to print as you expect. Good calibrations and valid ICC output profiles can make it so. You have some work cut out for you.

Best of luck.

PS: Also know designing in RGB and exporting a PDF using RGB has nothing to do with your original post. Absolutely. Nothing.
 
I

ikarasu

Active Member
perfectpdf said:
You just proved my point why my response has everything to do with the OP. You just gave him wrong information. The bulk of my second reply was in response to equippaint to answer your question but was relevant to OP. When OP said he did a C M Y K print and it didn't come out %100 true he felt, I was assuming he already made it the correct %100 CMYK values because you can't type the word CYAN in your values dialog box and poof it prints %100 CYAN. Part of your answer is right though he does need to make sure the CMYK values are correct to start.

OP needs to tell us about the nozzle check media/ink he is using and does his profile match the media/ink. If that doesn't get sorted caring about color output obtained is putting the cart before the horse.
Click to expand...

What information was wrong? I think you should re-read his question.

He's trying to print 4 squares... one C, One Y, One M, One K. Obviously he wants a 100% Cyan, a 100% yellow.. a 100%M, and a 100%K..

Instead he got a reply telling him to design in RGB. I'm pretty sure you can't use an RGB value and get his printer to only print using the Cyan head.

Whether he has custom profiles that are bang on, or the shitiest profiles ever, it doesn't change the solution to his question. If his 4 squares are setup as 100% each channel.. All he needs to do is tell the rip to print as is, and not use a profile. I could help in onyx, flexi... but I've never used versaworks, so I'm of no help.


I do the same thing. I have a file setup to use 100% C, M, Y,K, and a mix of the lights. Why? It helps me to diagnose nozzle issues not showing up, it helps me to make sure the ink I'm using hasn't gone bad, helps to see if theres ink starvation which isn't going to show up in a nozzle check... Along with many other reasons.

The poor guys just wants to know why his 100% squares are mixing colors... And if he's at the level where he doesn't know that, I don't think getting lectured on profiles and color spaces is going to help him much.
 
N

netsol

Active Member
i consider myself to have some expertise in color, from years servicing and calibrating tv cameras for cable company studios and broadcast, as well as a year or two doing photo lab printers, mostly noritsu.

there are parts of this i still have trouble wrapping my head around. what roland machine & what color space? his roland, is a cmyk +n device i assume. not simply a cmyk device. if he only has 4 ink cartridges there is no interpoltion performed in the machine. not so sure how it handles lc & lm

perfect pdf says the machine can print more than the gamut of cmyk. true, but NOT EVERY color in that range. the misconception of clients in my previous life was always "if we can render 3,000,000,000 colors per pixel my color must be in there somewhere".
not always true. the ability to render a larger quantity of incorrect colors makes a terrible consolation prize
 
C

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
netsol said:
what roland machine & what color space?
Click to expand...
Doesn't much matter for this discussion, really.

netsol said:
his roland, is a cmyk +n device i assume. not simply a cmyk device.
Click to expand...
For the matter at hand, know the ICC output profile is typically 4-color as opposed to 6-color, etc. A 4-color profile can encompass the entire gamut of an ink set using more than 4 colors.

netsol said:
perfect pdf says the machine can print more than the gamut of cmyk. true,
Click to expand...
See above about "encompass." The machine will not print more gamut than a good 4-color profile is capable.
 
Z

zspace

Premium Subscriber
Every printer I’ve owned, from solvent to latex to UV, had a pure channel test pattern, they all call it different names. I’ve never owned a Roland, but I have to believe Roland has an on board pattern that will print pure color blocks.

Not sure if this will address the need, but it should produce pure ink color patches - cmyk++ - without any mixing.
 
MelloImagingTechnologies

MelloImagingTechnologies

Many years in the Production Business
I highly recommend you go to onyxgfx.com and download the 30 day free trial copy of Postershop.
I have been installing this and training people to use this for wide format inkjet printing for 28 years and you will see all the benefits quickly.
 
S

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
zspace said:
Every printer I’ve owned, from solvent to latex to UV, had a pure channel test pattern, they all call it different names. I’ve never owned a Roland, but I have to believe Roland has an on board pattern that will print pure color blocks.

Not sure if this will address the need, but it should produce pure ink color patches - cmyk++ - without any mixing.
Click to expand...

Yes, there's a test print in service mode that does this. Not in the regular/user menu though.
SERVICE MENU --> PRINT MENU --> TEST PATTERN --> TEST PATTERN FILL
Should give you pure blocks from each head/ink colour.
 
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S

shoresigns

New Member
I'd like to hear one of you colour "wizards" explain why anyone would design in RGB when the application is a CMYK printer output. If your system is fully colour-managed to deliver the maximum CMYK gamut your printer can output, that means you have custom ICC profiles that are in CMYK space. Shouldn't you be sending those ICC profiles to your clients so they can design in your printer's gamut?
 
bigben

bigben

Not a newbie
shoresigns said:
I'd like to hear one of you colour "wizards" explain why anyone would design in RGB when the application is a CMYK printer output. If your system is fully colour-managed to deliver the maximum CMYK gamut your printer can output, that means you have custom ICC profiles that are in CMYK space. Shouldn't you be sending those ICC profiles to your clients so they can design in your printer's gamut?
Click to expand...

I'm curious too. :popcorn:
 
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