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Discussion I know my answer already, what's yours...........................

Discussion in 'Designs & Layouts' started by Gino, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    It's a small part of the overall project, so it is important. And also correct is, this was quoted 13 months ago and the guy who was in charge then, has moved into a new position. This guy inherited the old guys jobs and projects and he's trying to dot all his i's and cross his t's.

    The problem with the guidelines is...... it had all the various conditions of when to use this color scheme or the reverse, but nothing indicates CLEAR glass, so they all assume black will be fine. They simply don't understand and won't listen to me, but I only said it wouldn't work. I didn't do any demonstrations. I doubt that will happen, but we'll wait and see.
     
  2. 2CT Media

    2CT Media Very Active Member

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    What I mean is why invest so much time into showing them other companies guidelines? Even if by extent this is a much larger project, to battle with the stubborn is a fools' errand.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. fresh

    fresh Very Active Member

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    I make my suggestions. Its up to them to accept my expertise. If they know better, and "that's just the way its gotta be" then do what they ask. Eventually you'll re-do it at their cost.

    AND I always suggest people look around and see what others are doing. Find someone else with black window lettering, and see if you like it! If they can't find anyone, then maybe its because it doesn't work. Also, it takes 3 minutes to stick a piece of white vinyl and a piece of black vinyl on your window so they can see the difference.
     
  4. SignosaurusRex

    SignosaurusRex Major Contributor

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    With all due respect Gino, I'm surprised that you did not address this issue at the start when you were asked to quote the job. With that said, I know it is easy to overlook a detail like this when quoting the job. As well experienced professionals, we can and do get to a point where we assume that we have license to make a judgement call on an issue like this. Ya just gotta love dealing with these corporate "Branding" kids that don't thoroughly address the full gamut of possibilities let alone the most common applications.

    My response: " Yes sir, the corporate branding, it's visual clarity and impact is most omnipotent. In some cases there are exceptions to the base rules of display if not clearly addressed in the branding guidelines. In this case we are dealing with Black on Black as the mind's eye sees it. In my professional opinion, we should use White...and I will bet that the powers that be, will approve. If they don't, I will not charge for the change. If they change it to Black and then decide to change it back to White, it will be with a color change fee."

    Get it in writing and charge accordingly. If they want you to change it to Black...and then back to White. Get it in writing and CHARGE accordingly. $$$
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    When I did the first mockup/proof, I just naturally did it with white copy and they called me on it. When I did a proof with it black, as y'all can see in my example, he wrote back, he thinks it's better with the white, but I'm not abiding by their guidelines, so I just waited for them to figure it out. It costs me the same white or black and either color goes on the glass with the same ease.

    About 6 this morning, they said the white copy will be just fine.

    Signguy wins again..... over corporate America. :wavingflag:
     
  6. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Very Active Signmaker

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    Since this is your thread, I'll cover you on this one...

    I like happy endings.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • I Appreciate You I Appreciate You x 1
  7. E Coloney

    E Coloney Member

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    Put a line on your quote that says, "Valid for 30 days, only."
     
  8. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    That's already on there, but does anyone you know read all the details or just the price at the bottom and then question the numbers ?? Besides, there was no question on their part about it being higher. They were fine with that.
     
  9. Superior_Adam

    Superior_Adam Member

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    Customer is always right.....right? I will suggest that it is not going to work well with black but if they insist I do it black. Then when they are not happy I can say remember that conversation that the black would not work good, then charge them to change them all.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. signpro

    signpro Manager

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    I agree with the others, ask for a copy of their branding guidelines.
    if they disagree, take it off, do it in black for them! customer gets what they want, even when they are wrong.
    put it on your invoice that 'white was suggested, but done it black per customer request'
    and then if they want it re-done it white again, tell them you've already changed it once no charge, this time it's on them.
    and get the check up front for the change!

    good luck
     
  11. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Yep, I get it.

    Problem is, I've been doing this for a lo-o-o-ong time and some things just make sense and other things just add headache and cost. There's no reason explaining their own guidelines to them and trying to interpret them and wasting my time. I know there are only two possible outcomes. Either black or white. In this case one can truly say this is a case of black and white at its peak. No grey matter inbetween. Doing samples and making ultimatums is just costing everyone more time and money. I don't believe in that. I cut right to the chase. Here's what ya want and here is what I suggested. One or the other, please. Then, I go to town and knock it out. If they call back and say, it doesn't look good, it becomes a new job ticket as the quote, invoice and e-mails all serve me as my paper trail, that they were dumb about this and went about it wrong. In the meantime, I'm working on all the other signs which are really the big ticket items. This job is several thousand dollars and I'm not gonna get caught up in a $175. matter.

    I only posted this whole thing to kinda give an actual problem scenario and listen to all of the input. Like the title says, I already know MY answer, I just wanted to know how others feel.
     
  12. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    Ever have a customer insist on their logo printed on clear for the same scenario?
    Me: "You will only see it after dark when the office lights are on."
    Genius Customer: "Oh I'm sure it will look fine, plus I want to see it while looking out the door!"
    Is that your standard print + cut door vinyl price? If so that's spot on with my in town price.
     
  13. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Sorta, I'm only replacing the logo itself, not the copy directly under it or at the bottom. Just the emblem and the word microchip. If I was replacing all that other stuff, too..... be about $265. plus if I hadda remove any old vinyl.
     
  14. SheBeau

    SheBeau Member

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    They don’t know their own brand policy. Here THEY use the white logo. Screen Shot 2019-07-11 at 10.27.44 AM.png
     
  15. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    In all fairness, like I mentioned earlier, this design is known. The debacle was putting it on glass. I guess they figured glass is clear or light in color, since you can see through it, but didn't understand the properties of glass looking dark from the outside in, especially on privacy glass.
     
  16. Abraxas Aguilera

    Abraxas Aguilera New Member

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    "The money is always right... I mean, the customer is always right." Mr Krabs
     
  17. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    Sheesh, is that right? I'd probably do all of the copy in 3m cast and the logo printed on 3m calendared (yeah I'm the only guy using ij35) and quote that at 50/hr, 2hr tops to fab and install. I don't typically charge for removal of old hours if its on glass if I'm redoing all of the copy(unless it is more than a 5 min ordeal). Can I ask how you figured yours?
     
  18. jsmoritz2000

    jsmoritz2000 Very Active Member

    Been there, done that. I gave my opinion and the business owner didn't want to hear it. To people walking by on the sidewalk, the black shows up alright, but from street level, you can barely see a thing. I think the dark grey on the door may have been an even worse choice than the black.

    20160114_132905.jpg 20160114_132910.jpg 20160114_132928.jpg
     
  19. Big Rice Field

    Big Rice Field Electrical/Architectural Sign Designer

    Any designer knows that black vinyl on windows does not show up at all. That is basic knowledge. Make a sample black copy and white copy and put it on a window to demonstrate.
     
  20. Baz

    Baz Very Active Member

    Unless of course they have white shades or drapes. Then black is appropriate.
     
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