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Input needed on logo design
- Thread starter randya
- Start date
Biker Scout
New Member
Even reading books, taking workshops, seminars and getting hand held through the process won't necessarily make a person any better at designing a logo. In fact logo design, just by itself is considered an art form. It's harder than page layout, photo manipulation and color theory. Those can be taught, and even memorized to some extent. This is one of those things, you either have it or you don't. Now, with the right software tools, tricks and cheats one can create some semblance of a logo. But it would really only be a visual mockery of existing elements, suggestions by many and therefore just be average.
Couple that in with trying to come up with your own logo or image? Fuhgeddaboutit....! Find a logo designer who's style you like and pay them a few bucks. Then move on with life and get started on the rest of your business... which is making money, not logo design.
Randy, you're a Tech Guru. You are the one whom we come to when we have a problem with our printers. Meaning, you know what you are talking about, through years of training, persistence and hard work. Plus a dash of nerd. So, please do the same. Defer this part of your website project to a professional.
Couple that in with trying to come up with your own logo or image? Fuhgeddaboutit....! Find a logo designer who's style you like and pay them a few bucks. Then move on with life and get started on the rest of your business... which is making money, not logo design.
Randy, you're a Tech Guru. You are the one whom we come to when we have a problem with our printers. Meaning, you know what you are talking about, through years of training, persistence and hard work. Plus a dash of nerd. So, please do the same. Defer this part of your website project to a professional.
Biker Scout
New Member
Dan Antonelli
New Member
After three books on the subject, I realize it's incredibly self-serving to reply to this (and honestly, I hesitated to even reply), but I do believe you are incorrect. No one taught me how to design logos other than what I studied, and absorbed over many many years. There are very good books which will teach many of the fundamental mechanics of designing logos. Whether someone has the creative flair to excel in the realm is a different issue, but you can certainly improve your own foundation on why something might work, and why it might not.
Sometimes it's a matter of understanding fundamentals, and you'd be able to see why what the OP posted doesn't work. That's the first step - recognizing the characteristics of a good logo. Once you understand the typical mechanics of a good brand, its much easier to attempt one on your own. But without that understanding, you're taking stabs at it without really knowing why one works and another doesn't. That's where education can play a significant role.
For the OP, If it's an area you truly want to endeavor to excel at, than by all means study all you can on. There's tons or free resources on my site if you're inclined to read more on the subject, and there are many good books out there. But if this is a one-off thing, than by all means, just hire a professional and focus your efforts on areas that you excel at. Sometimes you'll make more money doing what you're great at, and hiring a pro to do what you're not so great at.
Supergirl
New Member
People don't understand that, but it is so true. I am also one with the "other" bran half, but I'm hoping the more i learn about it and the more i do it, eventually it will get easier to put something together that looks good, without it taking forever. I've always known what looks good and what doesn't, but I'm just too simple and afraid to think outside of the box.
i envy you guys for your ideas!!!!!
That looks pretty damn good to me!!
randya, good luck!!
Marlene
New Member
it looks like I was th only one who got the face but I did find it creepy. if you want to go that route, work on a face that all can see when they look at it. it doesn't have to be literal and can be abstract but it needs to be clearly as face. the thing with faces abstract or literal is it's a fine lien between warm and friendly and down right creepy. a lot of research would need to go into this by looking at images to figure out where that line is. go to bing and start looking at "logos that have faces in them" and branch out from there to get a feel for what works and what doesn't
Biker Scout
New Member
This was my point... yes you can study and hone your knowledge about a particular subject. But I think it boils down to intrinsic skills, and lobe/hemisphere development. Dan, you are already naturally gifted at "seeing" what's there and what isn't. You already had the blade so to speak. Your years of study and practice only served to sharpen the edge. Same with any profession.
There are many gifted painters who are so good at reproducing other's works, that is what they do for a living. However, just because they "know every nuance" of a master's work, and can duplicate every last detail doesn't mean they have the "eye" to create their own works. In fact, sometimes a copy just looks like a copy and lacks soul, and feeling. Same thing with logo farms, and logo contests.
Dan Antonelli
New Member
True. I was thinking of an analogy with someone who learns the notes to play a piano and can hit the keys, but still can't 'play' a piano.
It's impossible to excel at anything unless you're passionate about.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
There's something to be said about someone who plays by ear vs. learns by book.
When something comes naturally to an individual, it's really a diamond in the rough. If not properly schooled/honed, as wonderfully talented a person they might be, can go totally bad. With training and attention, they generally will become major successes. Someone who has no talent for something, but intellectually pursues a vision, they too, can become major successes..... it's just harder and usually takes longer.
Many people on this sight, who have the ability to draw by hand what they see, have no more power over someone who can build erector sets. With today's knowledge, what you see can be duplicated in a second and even for those who can draw or paint.... the computer does it better than you ever could. Remember, the old saying about the early sign computers..... they just make perfectly made ugly signs. Not today anymore. With everything that is at your fingertips.... anyone can become a frickin' monster designer, layout artist, paste-up or instructor.
The main thing about anyone explaining to you or telling you how to do something.... there is one thing missing between them and you. They only need to stay one step/lesson ahead of you to be the teacher. When you go beyond the teacher, they will fade..... and fast. It happens all the time.
I would venture to say, if you read the many books available, read through the mumbo-jumbo and take the information really jammed into these books and CD's, you will learn the very basics about any given subject. As for becoming a front runner from the books and CD's offered in many of the magazines, you will quickly see/learn that they all repeat what someone else has already said, but just use different words or pictures.
Coming to a place like s101 will further your education faster and with more hands on than any book out there. Get the books, read them a few times, digest it all and then come here to discuss your questions and get first hand help..... from some of the guys who actually wrote that stuff. Those of us with 10, 20, 40 years under our belt will give proven answers which will also help back up the books and CD's.
It's never too late to learn, especially of you really want it.
When something comes naturally to an individual, it's really a diamond in the rough. If not properly schooled/honed, as wonderfully talented a person they might be, can go totally bad. With training and attention, they generally will become major successes. Someone who has no talent for something, but intellectually pursues a vision, they too, can become major successes..... it's just harder and usually takes longer.
Many people on this sight, who have the ability to draw by hand what they see, have no more power over someone who can build erector sets. With today's knowledge, what you see can be duplicated in a second and even for those who can draw or paint.... the computer does it better than you ever could. Remember, the old saying about the early sign computers..... they just make perfectly made ugly signs. Not today anymore. With everything that is at your fingertips.... anyone can become a frickin' monster designer, layout artist, paste-up or instructor.
The main thing about anyone explaining to you or telling you how to do something.... there is one thing missing between them and you. They only need to stay one step/lesson ahead of you to be the teacher. When you go beyond the teacher, they will fade..... and fast. It happens all the time.
I would venture to say, if you read the many books available, read through the mumbo-jumbo and take the information really jammed into these books and CD's, you will learn the very basics about any given subject. As for becoming a front runner from the books and CD's offered in many of the magazines, you will quickly see/learn that they all repeat what someone else has already said, but just use different words or pictures.
Coming to a place like s101 will further your education faster and with more hands on than any book out there. Get the books, read them a few times, digest it all and then come here to discuss your questions and get first hand help..... from some of the guys who actually wrote that stuff. Those of us with 10, 20, 40 years under our belt will give proven answers which will also help back up the books and CD's.
It's never too late to learn, especially of you really want it.
I came here for a reality check, thanks to those who provided that.
It was important to me to understand the limits of my understanding.
I have watched this logo thread for many years, but never participated, as I don't do logos, and don't know enough to provide valuable input.
I never expected to make Top Ten on my first attempt, not even Top Ten Worse, lol.
I understand what I like, but like many of you seem to allude to, not why I like it or why it works.
I certainly understand more after your input.
I bought Mike Steven's book many years ago, and while I have attempted to make use of his ideas, it is not something I am innately skilled at (Biker Scout) or passionate about (Dan), so in reality I have not made good use of it.
I am more intrigued about logos and especially about branding, so perhaps another book is in order.
One of our fellow 101's is working with me now.
And the very first image they sent over demonstrated to me explicitly the whole concept of how a logo can make an immediate and strong connection.
So I am working with a professional now, but with better information comes more questions.
It was important to me to understand the limits of my understanding.
I have watched this logo thread for many years, but never participated, as I don't do logos, and don't know enough to provide valuable input.
I never expected to make Top Ten on my first attempt, not even Top Ten Worse, lol.
I understand what I like, but like many of you seem to allude to, not why I like it or why it works.
I certainly understand more after your input.
I bought Mike Steven's book many years ago, and while I have attempted to make use of his ideas, it is not something I am innately skilled at (Biker Scout) or passionate about (Dan), so in reality I have not made good use of it.
I am more intrigued about logos and especially about branding, so perhaps another book is in order.
One of our fellow 101's is working with me now.
And the very first image they sent over demonstrated to me explicitly the whole concept of how a logo can make an immediate and strong connection.
So I am working with a professional now, but with better information comes more questions.
I like these as well.
And while it takes care of Dan's "If a logo needs explanation, readers miss the message"
As the website is the focus.
It does make feel I am wanting more.
Can you give me your take on 'text' logos and how effective they can be?
Dan, I have been following you for a while and have been to your website many, many times. Thanks.
I admit that while I wasn't particularly attracted to your design concepts at first, I have come to realize the value of the way you do branding simply works and works because it is simple (not simplistic) and effective. I have always admired the minimalist aspect to art.
Do you think this would serve me best out of all your books?
http://www.amazon.com/Building-Smal...&qid=1392135513&sr=8-1&keywords=Dan+Antonelli
What is your 2 cents on 'text' logos?
Dan Antonelli
New Member
Yes, simple is good. Earlier on in my career I was certainly guilty of not understanding that. All the tricks I knew, I felt like I had to have included in every logo.
Yes, out of the books, that would be best. While it's not as heavily written on the how-to's, it's more about the why's. But some material from first two is covered.
Some of the free content I referenced earlier can be found here: http://graphicd-signs.com/about/in-the-media/ . Click the year tabs once it loads. Also our blog has some useful things.
As far as text logos, I dont recommend them for small businesses as it's difficult to brand them, or derive a brand promise from a logotype approach.
Pat Whatley
New Member
Biker Scout
New Member
I feel if you do it right they are every bit as good as a characterization, mascot or doodle as part of your logo. They do convey more serious, business like approach however. They aren't for every industry. But you wouldn't go to your proctologist who had his face as part of his logo. You'd want him to be serious and professional.
I'll agree with Dan that a mascot/doodle is definitely waaaay more brandable, and easily more memorable as part of a whole branding strategy. But entire branding strategies are expensive to execute, and take a lot of hands on from an agency willing to "put you out there". But using your face as part of your branding strategy is akin to a real estate agent or mortgage broker always seemingly forcing their faces all over town, just because it's common industry practice. These guys aren't the celebrities they want you to think they are, and that whole notion of a smiley face invoking a sense of trust and personable service is just misguided and probably thought up by some smooth talker from an industry seminar. Egomania comes to mind!
Randy, are you a celebrity outside of your bedroom mirror? Do you want or need people to associate your face or a caricature of your face to instill an air of confidence and personable touch in your service you are offering? How divergent is your industry that you are competing in? Is there an established "look" that works for the larger, more successful firms/individuals that are vying for the same slice of pie? If so, then maybe you ought to emulate them to some degree as a starting point.