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Installing a 4x6ft wood sign

Pideas

New Member
I have a project to install a 4x6ft wood sign into the ground (grass/dirt). I plan to use two 4x4 wood posts. My question is how far do the posts need to go into the ground? Is cement needed to stabilize the posts after installing the posts into the ground? I used to have a pro installer do this for me but he’s no longer around.

Thanks.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
In almost all cases, you'll need a permit. Many times the municipality will tell you what is needed.

For what you're describing, we'd go about 38" to 42" deep and if it's to be there more than 6 months, it gets cemented into the ground with about a 12" diameter hole. Many other things should be taken into consideration, but we don't have all your details.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
It tends to matter the further north you go. Snow, rain, freezing temperatures and wind can knock a sign right outta the ground over one season.

Trees with shallow root systems will topple over up here. I see it all over the place. You wanna use 24 sf of sail on 2 scrawny posts, 2 ft in the ground........ ?? Of course it will fall over in no time. According to the ground situation, but again, that's what codes can do to help.
 

ProSignTN

New Member
If the sign is semi-temporary, (real estate, etc.) 4"x 4" posts are sufficient. If this is a permanent sign, I would recommend 6"x 6" posts. I can buy only two kinds of pressure treated lumber in my area: straight and still wet, or dry and warped, twisted or bowed. I'm assuming this 4'x 6' will be at least 8' tall. There is a strong possibility your 4"x 4"'s will twist, warp or bow after install.

If it's a temp, we don't use concrete. Instead we bury the posts roughly or more than 35% of total height. 96" high x 35% = 33.6" minimum depth. There is a lot of clay soil in my area and the breaker bar does more work digging the holes than the post hole diggers. As we're busting out dirt with the bar, we slam it against the side of the hole, thus compacting the dirt around the hole. I got a giant book on the shelf about concrete, compaction and so forth, but I won't get into the math. We bring a 5 gallon bucket of gravel to add in with the dirt when we back fill. Dig your holes as close to level as you can get by measuring hole depth, while accounting for grade. If you have a grade, lay a 2"x 4" across top of holes. Raise 2"x 4" till it is level and measure the difference between the heights. Adjust hole depth accordingly. We use a breaker bar with a bell on the other end of the wedge. Pound the bottom of a hole with the bell so you have a solid bottom. Set your prefabbed 4'x 6' sign structure into the holes. It will probably be a little off level. Scoop a small amount of gravel into the hole that is too deep. Lift that side of the sign up enough to allow gravels to work there way under the post. Bounce that end until the sign is level. Once you have your sign level, roughly plumb it and scoop in a couple shovels of dirt. Use the bell end of your bar to tamp the dirt, thus compacting it. Repeat this process, adding 3"-4" of dirt and mixing in a scoop of gravel with each tamping. You should be compacting that 3"x 4" to about 2". Check plumb with each tamp. If the sign is leaning, tamp harder on the side it's leaning to. This will move the post back to plumb. Once you've reached the top of the holes, mound the dirt up around the post to promote water runoff instead water in you hole. We've installed many signs this way over the last 30 plus years and it works. It's hard work, but it's not rocket science.

Concrete is best applied as a ballast in pole/post installation. It's the weight below fulcrum (ground level) that anchors the sign. 160 lbs of concrete won't be noticed by the wind load absorbed by 24' feet panel. Again, I won't get into the math. The Great Wall of China is still standing because of compacted dirt.

If the sign is permanent, I highly advise 6" x 6" posts because of their stability. Same technique as above, but with sackrete or quickrete.
 

RetepK

New Member
It tends to matter the further north you go. Snow, rain, freezing temperatures and wind can knock a sign right outta the ground over one season.

Trees with shallow root systems will topple over up here. I see it all over the place. You wanna use 24 sf of sail on 2 scrawny posts, 2 ft in the ground........ ?? Of course it will fall over in no time. According to the ground situation, but again, that's what codes can do to help.
I am in NH and install lots of signs. We use a wind load calculator and 4" X 4" posts should be fine as long as the sign isn't to tall and the posts are deep enough.
 

gnubler

Active Member
For what you're describing, we'd go about 38" to 42" deep and if it's to be there more than 6 months, it gets cemented into the ground with about a 12" diameter hole.

Better go at least 60" deep with 24" diameter hole and rent some earth moving equipment to bore that sucker out. Better safe than sorry.

Egads, man!
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Better go at least 60" deep with 24" diameter hole and rent some earth moving equipment to bore that sucker out. Better safe than sorry.

Egads, man!

Ya know...... I try to help people on this site, even you, but with your constant sneering snide and totally unhelpful remarks all the time, it's a wonder you do any business at all.

I don't think you ever dug a hole, much alone ever got a permit for anything you ever did in your life, yet you come here acting like you know something. You are a joke. I think I'll put my comments for you at rest...... not that it will matter to you, but suffice it to say, you are a ditz.
 

Scotchbrite

No comment
If you do footing calcs for an unconstrained footing, the holes should be 1' diameter by 4' deep for a 24sq-ft sign on 2 posts with the sign 2' above grade.
 

gnubler

Active Member
Oh.....have a wonderful day.
I am, now that I know how little effort I have to put into getting you all riled up. It has been a pleasure, sir! I give it less than a day until you're on my arse again.

And seriously, if everyone did things as you nitpickingly prescribe them I honestly think no signs would be made or installed, evah!
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
If anyone followed any of your suggestions or comments, they'd be going as goofy as you are.

You do realize, you can completely ignore me and my posts or any of my comments, but to come up with some of the silly nonsense you offer, it's sad, cause ya just ain't funny. Did you even notice the post right before YOURS from out of a calculation formula on these things almost is what I said verbatim, except the rules say to go a foot deeper than I do. How wrong was I, ya old bitty ?? I believe you're the one with a hangup on overdoing things, but for all the wrong reasons, in fact, I don't think reasoning ever enters your vocabulary or work. Cripes..... who in their right mind would make a banner based on inches, instead of checking and making sure ?? YOU WOULD, cause you're a ditz. You do things just to make a point, not help anyone. I'm not riled up, just p!ssed at myself for thinking you had turned over a new leaf, but you're still the same ol' a$$hole you were when ya started here. Someday, maybe you'll grow up.

I didn't realize until recently how many children we're dealing with on a professional sign forum. Go eat some graham crackers, drink you milk and take your afternoon nap...... and have a wonderful day. :u rock:
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
You don't get no titles, other than putzker. And you wonder why you're all alone.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
There's no gender there. It's some sort of wax from a turtle's eardrum.. it's greyish green,, but has some negative vibrations of an earthworm.
 
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