Introducing Flexi Cloud - Join the beta!

[FrankW]

Even if they are above the equilibrium price, you'll still (in theory) have people that will pay for it, you just won't have that many.

Yes. But if the current Price of Flexi lead to that Flexi is still one of the market leaders than it looks like that you still get enough people who likes to pay for it .

Mostly, people wo uses Flexi are professionals who earn money with their work. So its easy to calculate if buying Flexi is ok for me or not.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Cloud Based Products? Not for me. No matter what its called. Online subscription is still an online product with all its negatives.
I tried the inline subscription with other products.

Like so many things, it really depends on the product. I will not say no to online subscription, just because it's an online subscription.

Netflix, Lynda.com, and S101 are all subscription based products that I either currently enjoy or have enjoyed at one time or another.

Now, if it's online for a key product, such as Ai, Corel, or Flexi in this case, then that's where it gets tricky. That's were a C/B ratio comes into play. One thing that I would expect though is if it was one of these products, I wouldn't expect to have to pay a premium for the subscription service. It has to be significantly lower, especially if it's using a web browser as an interface. That's less control that I have of the individual program and because of that, the cost has to come way way down. Some get that and charge accordingly, or make it up in other areas, some do not.

In my experience with online subscriptions has a big negative is... And I am sure most can guess is.. It will be just like having a mandatory tip added to your food bill. You may get a dish of food but the server will be far removed from the mental demands of doing a good job,,,

I have a real problem with a statement like that. Especially with the phrase "server will be far removed from the mental demands of doing a good job". That again depends on the situation. Although from my personal experience the few times I was in a situation were there was a certain % of a tip already for the server, there was not one situation were I got bad service. Your experience may be different, but I just don't like broad statements like that, especially in job sector that I know I couldn't do, because I've seen how some of the locals treat the servers around here. If they did that to me, I wouldn't have a job for very long.

I do get the point that you are trying to illustrate and to a degree, I do agree that the possibility for the server to not be on their best game is there, that isn't always the case.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Yes. But if the current Price of Flexi lead to that Flexi is still one of the market leaders than it looks like that you still get enough people who likes to pay for it .

They still may not be at their equilibrium price though. It certainly took bob out of the running, but just because he is out of the running, doesn't mean that they are truly at their equilibrium pricing or above it.

Mostly, people wo uses Flexi are professionals who earn money with their work. So its easy to calculate if buying Flexi is ok for me or not.

Absolutely. I think some of that is forgotten in some instances though.

 

[bob]

...The current product is NOT the same as 1998 when a nearly complete re-development of the software is published as v6, there is a lot of work done since then. On the other hand, lots of third party modules are built in too where SAi have to pay themselves, for example the RIP-Engines (specially the Adobe CPSI was really expensive as far as I know)....

There's a whole hell of a lot of difference between laying a foundation and constructing an entire original package and merely evolving what you already have. The original package was developed years ago and, if the developers had a clue, should have been full amortized in a couple of years. After that it's merely maintenance. I speak as someone who has authored commercial grade software packages for more years than you've been on the planet.

A standard software will not be designed to fit to just your needs. If you do not want to use it, you don't need to. You don't need to pay anything if your current version fits your needs, because you don't need to upgrade.

The only needs I care about are my own. Whether something might fit your or anyone else's needs as well is not a consideration.

...Although, part of what Bob says here, is why I had a little trouble when he advocated in another thread to go for the gold when it came to software...

Allow me to try to mitigate your confusion. What I meant was go for the package that integrates the most functional features with ease of use. Even if you don't know how to use these features or see no immediate use for them, one day you will. The operative phrase here is 'functional features'. Diddling with remote servers and doing a [gag] subscription in lieu of merely buying the thing are not functional features.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Allow me to try to mitigate your confusion. What I meant was go for the package that integrates the most functional features with ease of use. Even if you don't know how to use these features or see no immediate use for them, one day you will. The operative phrase here is 'functional features'. Diddling with remote servers and doing a [gag] subscription in lieu of merely buying the thing are not functional features.

Actually that doesn't help.

In my experience, with the software that I get, you don't have a different tool set. Level 1 has the same tools as Level 3. The difference is the editing capabilities of the tools and the level of automation. Both of which can be worked around using level 1 depending on your knowledge level about machine production.

My confusion comes in for this instance, because in the majority of the other posts of yours that I can remember, you vilify automation on one hand, but in this instance, it appears like you are advocating it. As automation is a "functional feature", especially in the industry that I am in. Remember, I get paid the same rather it takes me 5 minutes or 5 hours to digitize a pattern. If I have to re-work a pattern for whatever reason, having the tool set with more editing capabilities and automation, helps get that done quickly. Considering edits in my industry are not charged (unless it results in a totally different pattern), that is also another edge towards automation.

I just have those two divergent thought processes of yours that I can't reconcile.

Unless you allow for exceptions (but then, doesn't that disprove the rule?)

The operative phrase here is 'functional features'. Diddling with remote servers and doing a [gag] subscription in lieu of merely buying the thing are not functional features.

I would disagree in certain instances. Take for instance, Netflix and Lynda.com. Both subscription based products. I like the fact that I don't have to download and install another piece of software or all those files to view their product. Messing with just the server through a web browser is a functional feature.

Email is the same way, rather your subscription is free (but with limits) or it's a paid subscription. If I know that I'm going to be away from my computer while a payment for a digitized pattern comes in, I go ahead and log in on the web to my email, save a draft of the email with the attached files. Say what I'm going to say, have the email all ready to go and just save it as a draft. When I get a notification on my phone on payment, I just send the email on my phone. Enabling me to have a quicker response time. I would say that messing with servers, is very much a functional feature, it just depends on the situation.




Now, having said all that, I do have a hard time advocating a subscription based service as the only option for core programs like Ai, Corel, and/or Flexi. If they want to keep two options, that's one thing, because there are some that would rather have a subscription based route and that's up to them. But not as the sole option.

 

[FrankW]

There's a whole hell of a lot of difference between laying a foundation and constructing an entire original package and merely evolving what you already have. The original package was developed years ago and, if the developers had a clue, should have been full amortized in a couple of years. After that it's merely maintenance.

First point: nobody have to reduce prices just because the development costs of his product has payed.

Second point: neither you nor I have any idea how much SAi needs to spend for "maintaining", and it does not concern anybody of us.

I speak as someone who has authored commercial grade software packages for more years than you've been on the planet.

I'm shure this guy will not reduce prices too just because of his software developement is payed (except he lived and worked in the soviet union or similar).

Around 25 years ago the layout software aldus pagemaker 1.2 for mac was sold in a carton box with 1 floppy disc and a brochure with around 64 pages or so for around 1'500 bucks (in europe). I had discussions as with you now these days too because the people had a look on this box and told me that a software package which contains just 200g of carton and plastic may not be worth the price.

The only needs I care about are my own. Whether something might fit your or anyone else's needs as well is not a consideration.

Yes. Thats why I have suggested not to upgrade to FlexiCloud if you don't need the features which are offered. SAi do not have to consider special needs of single customers too.

I still wait for some features SAi haven't developped until now, while they add features I don't need either. Thats live with a standard product.

 

[rjssigns]

Not interested in a subscription.

 

[Techman]

Netflix, Lynda.com, and S101 are all subscription based products that I either currently enjoy or have enjoyed at one time or another.

Netflix and lynda are certainly not in this discussion. Those two and all those like them are convenience usages for almost all their users. That model fits most subscribers just fine. If the server goes down all it does is cause a momentary pain.

Flexi and all other production software based products are certainly not a convenience based model. Those are production based products that must be ready to go when the client needs them on demand. If the server is down the user is down. If some module fails the user has to work around it. That means profits lost. That means the cost of the subscription just made a quantum leap in expense.

Given the littlest of disputes that may arise between the provider and the user on a subscription.
The provider simply shuts off access. You are done. You either pay or you are off. You have a billing error. You are off. You have a dispute over some lack of function the provider fails to resolve you still have to pay.

The subscription takes away the only means a user has to influence the provider.

My experience with production based software subscriptions is they are never in the favor of the user. Yes, when they work all is well. When they are down then the cost is not worth it at any price.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Netflix and lynda are certainly not in this discussion. Those two and all those like them are convenience usages for almost all their users. That model fits most subscribers just fine. If the server goes down all it does is cause a momentary pain.

Flexi and all other production software based products are certainly not a convenience based model. Those are production based products that must be ready to go when the client needs them on demand. If the server is down the user is down. If some module fails the user has to work around it. That means profits lost. That means the cost of the subscription just made a quantum leap in expense.

Given the littlest of disputes that may arise between the provider and the user on a subscription.
The provider simply shuts off access. You are done. You either pay or you are off. You have a billing error. You are off. You have a dispute over some lack of function the provider fails to resolve you still have to pay.

The subscription takes away the only means a user has to influence the provider.

My experience with production based software subscriptions is they are never in the favor of the user. Yes, when they work all is well. When they are down then the cost is not worth it at any price.

Last paragraph on post #25 explains my stance on the core programs like Ai, Corel and Flexi. My mentioning of Netflix, Lynda.com etc was argument against those that give the impression that subscription based period doesn't have a functional use.

Although, I must say that even a subscription based on core programs does have its place, it just depends on the individual user and their needs.

 

[Baz]

Netflix and lynda are certainly not in this discussion. Those two and all those like them are convenience usages for almost all their users. That model fits most subscribers just fine. If the server goes down all it does is cause a momentary pain.

Flexi and all other production software based products are certainly not a convenience based model. Those are production based products that must be ready to go when the client needs them on demand. If the server is down the user is down. If some module fails the user has to work around it. That means profits lost. That means the cost of the subscription just made a quantum leap in expense.

Given the littlest of disputes that may arise between the provider and the user on a subscription.
The provider simply shuts off access. You are done. You either pay or you are off. You have a billing error. You are off. You have a dispute over some lack of function the provider fails to resolve you still have to pay.

The subscription takes away the only means a user has to influence the provider.

My experience with production based software subscriptions is they are never in the favor of the user. Yes, when they work all is well. When they are down then the cost is not worth it at any price.

THIS!!!

 

[jayhawksigns]

To verify, this is basically the current version with added functionality. The original bits are still installed locally, and functions like we are used to. Only the new remote functions require internet use.

 

[choucove]

I believe the view of how the Flexi Cloud would function is a little skewed here and is also causing some discussion irrelevant to this particular situation and service. As Matthew states above, the Flexi Cloud seems to just be some added features to the standard Flexi software installed locally on your computer.

Have you seen the newest version of Microsoft Office 2013? In this new version, Microsoft is integrating many new cloud features, and at first it may sound like there's all kinds of internet-connected requirements and tools, that's not really what it means. Simply, within Microsoft Office 2013 is the native ability to save files directly to a Microsoft SkyDrive account or other cloud-based storage repository. I think this is basically what they are talking about with Flexi. It's the same program, but there may be a couple added features such as saving files directly online.

Perhaps the best way to think about a subscription based service for the Flexi Cloud is just a subscription for the ADD-ON features of Flexi Cloud, NOT the whole software package itself. In other words, you pay the standard purchase rate for your full license of Flexi and install it on your computer. If you want to use the Flexi Cloud features, then you might sign up for a special account and are billed a monthly fee for having access to those Flexi Cloud additional features, but it does not affect your price or ownership at all of the original product.

Steph, is this how you are meaning it? This is kind of how I am picturing the product and what you meant by a subscription-based pricing for Flexi Cloud.

 

[FrankW]

To verify, this is basically the current version with added functionality. The original bits are still installed locally, and functions like we are used to. Only the new remote functions require internet use.

It looks like that the new softkey licensing system (without a hardware-dongle) needs internet connection every seven days (a message with that contents have appeared in the cloud-window during offline tests). I have no idea if there will be a possibility to drive Flexi totally offline in the future.

 

[Steph_Stamm]

Choucove, yes, that's right. We just built on the existing Flexi and added a few new features that are internet-based (cloud). So it still installs on your computer, the upgrade structure is the same, pricing will be the same.

It looks like that the new softkey licensing system (without a hardware-dongle) needs internet connection every seven days (a message with that contents have appeared in the cloud-window during offline tests). I have no idea if there will be a possibility to drive Flexi totally offline in the future.

You can still run Flexi if the internet is not connected. We learned that lesson when we first introduced a softkey solution in 2006. With Flexi Cloud, you don't need a dongle (although you can have/use one), but the key doesn't try to connect over the internet. If you don't have internet, you will miss out on the internet-based features but Flexi will still be completely functional otherwise.

 

[FrankW]

You can still run Flexi if the internet is not connected. We learned that lesson when we first introduced a softkey solution in 2006. With Flexi Cloud, you don't need a dongle (although you can have/use one), but the key doesn't try to connect over the internet.

With my Beta-Licence, when setting the computer offline, a message appears in the cloud window that I need to reconnect to the internet until 7 days. Perhaps because its just a temporary licence?

 

[visual800]

Im not interested in subscribing to a damn thing....flexi, illustrator. I would rather have the old school programs.

 

[GAC05]

Im not interested in subscribing to a damn thing....flexi, illustrator. I would rather have the old school programs.

Little house on the prairie - one room old school:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluxe_Paint

 

[Steph_Stamm]

With my Beta-Licence, when setting the computer offline, a message appears in the cloud window that I need to reconnect to the internet until 7 days. Perhaps because its just a temporary licence?

Hi Frank - that's right. Any timed or temporary keys need to be connected to the internet so that we can check server time and shut down the software if the key has expired. Full Flexi licenses will not require the internet to run, with the exception of any internet-based cloud features.

 

[jayhawksigns]

When will permanent licenses roll out?

 

[Steph_Stamm]

We're planning to launch very early next year!