Cancel the 180 and get the new 175... trust me.
-
I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...
Issues with 3m 180mc
- Thread starter klingsdesigns
- Start date
Patentagosse
New Member
I asked... they don't have it in stock (I think the guy on the phone never heard of...)
We had it before 3M even let the word out about it. We also had it 3 weeks before some of my other suppliers had it.
Kinda funny when they walk in and are all excited to unveil a new product to you which you had before they did. lol
It has been out for a couple months now. You may want to check with different suppliers in your area.
Patentagosse
New Member
Sure I hear you but as I'm not trying to "buy" it... I'm trying to get it replaced by my source... it's different
klingsdesigns
New Member
Fellers swapped mine for the 175 and credited me money.
Patentagosse
New Member
My supplier just called me back, he got in touch with 3M Canada and 'been told the 175 is not available in Canada yet (...)
What a bunch of...
klingsdesigns
New Member
Well got the 175, printed on it with the ij180 profile I have. Very little to no banding on the standard mode. None showing on the high quality. Absolutely NO white dots showing through. Cant wait to see how it wraps, since I always thought the 180cv3 and mc was way to aggressive.
"Lesser removal capabilities when compared to film IJ180Cv3 and IJ180mC-10 and may leave more than 30% adhesive residue"
This scares me about the 175C. Leaves more than 30% reside of glue... thats a lot. A big selling point for 180 for us is it's removable... so if a customer wants a re-fresh in a couple years, it comes off really easy. I havent tested 175 yet (Also in Canada!) But the 30% Adhesive would put me off of it - Just pointing it out incase any of you guys switching over didn't read the PB on it.
"Removable with heat and/or chemicals, but not warranted for removal. This product may not remove similarly to IJ180Cv3-10. See 3M Instruction Bulletin 6.5 for details."
[Edit] 180 is warranted for removal within 10 years also, while 175 isnt warranted at all - Kind of shows they have no faith it'll be removable.
This scares me about the 175C. Leaves more than 30% reside of glue... thats a lot. A big selling point for 180 for us is it's removable... so if a customer wants a re-fresh in a couple years, it comes off really easy. I havent tested 175 yet (Also in Canada!) But the 30% Adhesive would put me off of it - Just pointing it out incase any of you guys switching over didn't read the PB on it.
"Removable with heat and/or chemicals, but not warranted for removal. This product may not remove similarly to IJ180Cv3-10. See 3M Instruction Bulletin 6.5 for details."
[Edit] 180 is warranted for removal within 10 years also, while 175 isnt warranted at all - Kind of shows they have no faith it'll be removable.
Patentagosse
New Member
I read the description and noticed it but I never have to "un-wrap" a car in order to "re-wrap" it with a new skin so I don't really care to be honest... I want it to print nice & smooth as the roll of 180 always performed in the past... I don't know what they changed in the formula but if it's going to make that shit over and over, I'm gonna switch brand. I prefer 3M by far for the ease or peeling when I do print n' cut jobs. For total coverage it all feel the same (avery, arlon, 3M...) but when it comes to printing nice smooth gradient or special color letterings and plot 'em after laminating, no one comes close to 3M for the ease of weeding.
klingsdesigns
New Member
Yeah that does kind of scare me on removal. We do not do a ton of wraps. Mainly for 4x8 signs that need to last or customers that request it. But that could make it for a bad couple days if the wrap doesn't remove nicely. What other 3m wrap material can we get that prints descent?
Patentagosse
New Member
When I remove graphics, I charge by the hour (75$) so if it takes longer, I don't care. The customer is advised upfront and always have the choice to remove it itself if he thinks it's too expensive that way.
SightLine
║▌║█║▌│║▌║▌█
The removal is also what turned us off on the 175. Using a film that will be a bear to remove later is doing a big disservice to your customer. We do a lot of wraps and fully 90% or more eventually are brought back to us to either remove or remove and replace. I'm up front with our customers that they can go with a cheaper material but the savings on the front end will cost them far more down the road when it comes time to remove it and the removal ends up costing $900 instead of $250. I know our competitors do not bother to educate customers on the differences in materials and why some cost much more than others. I also realize some customers simply do not care and for them it is 100% about price. At least once a month I tell a potential customer that right to their face too. If I get the feeling that they are just being cheap and only care about price I tell them that if price is their bottom line then we are probably not the best shop for them. Maybe its just me but I like repeat customers and a massive percentage of ours keep coming back. A local bank we do work for, we have wrapped the same PT Cruiser 4 different times. I know exactly what to expect when a 3M 180 wrap comes back for removal (except for primer, learned years ago to be VERY modest with the use of that lol). Clean fast and easy removal.
This is worrisome seeing people having these issues with the mC. We have pretty much switched over to that from CV3 shortly after it came out and we have already gone through probably about 80 rolls of it. Have not seen any of these problems with any we have though. At least not yet.... hoping I do not either.
This is worrisome seeing people having these issues with the mC. We have pretty much switched over to that from CV3 shortly after it came out and we have already gone through probably about 80 rolls of it. Have not seen any of these problems with any we have though. At least not yet.... hoping I do not either.
Patentagosse
New Member
I have used many rolls of the 180 along the past years, from their original one, then the v2, v3 w/o any problem. During Holidays, I received their lastest version, marketed to be even easier to apply, so I was excited and can't wait to try it on a job. I printed a graphic kit (like 3D stripes) for a minivan owner. It outputed really bad but the customer was so amazed by the overall look that he didn't noticed the details but I wasn't happy at all (not my type to work just to collect the check... I proud in what I do). The 2nd job was for a semi (the tractor of a milk tanker... the owner has +8 units...) and he won't notice either.
2 on 2 for printing issues described above was enought for me so I called my supplier and reported the problem. I still have trust in 3M 'cause I'm a long-time user but at 1250$ the combo, I have some "expectations". I also know it has happened in every brand.
I just want a printable roll on Monday morning so I can get back on track and produce decent prints. As always.
Attachments
Patentagosse
New Member
'Have some Avery and Arlon SLX sitting next to my 180...
Most of our customers ask for removable vinyl when they want a wrap, or vehicle graphics. We cater to police cars, city vehicles, company vehicles, and not so much the end customer... So they're always pretty educated in what materials should be specced at.
If we put on something that left a ton of glue and was a pain in the ass to remove, or update their graphics... We'd lose so many contracts. So for us, while we may use 175 for some applications... We'd likely never use it for vehicle wraps beyond a couple small letters.
That said... 180mc is kind of new. It sounds like their new micro comply is having issues with some printers. We never specifically ordered 180mc... But we've got maybe 10 rolls when cv3 was out of stock.
I have not noticed a difference in print quality, or graininess on our Seiko printer. Its probably an issue 3m is aware of.... They're usually pretty good at fixing any defects and making it right with the customer.
Can you guys not get 180cv3 in the us anymore? I know they plan on phasing it out... But we order 5-10 bundles of 180 a month, and cv3 is still coming in for us...
If we put on something that left a ton of glue and was a pain in the ass to remove, or update their graphics... We'd lose so many contracts. So for us, while we may use 175 for some applications... We'd likely never use it for vehicle wraps beyond a couple small letters.
That said... 180mc is kind of new. It sounds like their new micro comply is having issues with some printers. We never specifically ordered 180mc... But we've got maybe 10 rolls when cv3 was out of stock.
I have not noticed a difference in print quality, or graininess on our Seiko printer. Its probably an issue 3m is aware of.... They're usually pretty good at fixing any defects and making it right with the customer.
Can you guys not get 180cv3 in the us anymore? I know they plan on phasing it out... But we order 5-10 bundles of 180 a month, and cv3 is still coming in for us...
Patentagosse
New Member
Got a new replacement roll Yesterday. I crossed my fingers and holded my breath... I sent the same file that showed issues and... yep... again... same "/$%?& result.
Called the rep back to report it and 'been told it's in 3M's hands now (claim) but this morning, I still have a full 16ft trailer to wrap... 'Will turn to Arlon or Avery to move forward
Called the rep back to report it and 'been told it's in 3M's hands now (claim) but this morning, I still have a full 16ft trailer to wrap... 'Will turn to Arlon or Avery to move forward
Just an FYI. The 3M175 is not a cure all solution. If you prefer 3M like us (with eco-solvent printing) it is the best option available since the changes to the 3M materials imo.
In the sample below is a print I ran just an hour ago. Avery 1105 on the top and 3M 175 on the bottom. (Disregard the holidays from dust on the samples). You can obviously see a
considerable difference in quality. The 3M 175 does not work correctly with certain colors. In these samples all RIP specs were left the same. We only changed the rolls out and hit the print button.
If Avery 1105/ laminated had a decent warranty, we would strongly consider switching brands. Very frustrating!!!
Patentagosse.. I imagine you are just now seeing these effects on the materials due to your suppliers quantity of product movement . We seen it months ago because ours vendors
move more product. Unfortunately for you and others it will continue.
In the sample below is a print I ran just an hour ago. Avery 1105 on the top and 3M 175 on the bottom. (Disregard the holidays from dust on the samples). You can obviously see a
considerable difference in quality. The 3M 175 does not work correctly with certain colors. In these samples all RIP specs were left the same. We only changed the rolls out and hit the print button.
If Avery 1105/ laminated had a decent warranty, we would strongly consider switching brands. Very frustrating!!!
Patentagosse.. I imagine you are just now seeing these effects on the materials due to your suppliers quantity of product movement . We seen it months ago because ours vendors
move more product. Unfortunately for you and others it will continue.
Attachments
Patentagosse
New Member
They sell few skids since so I don't think it was sleepy boxes in the warehouse. They assured me that it was a totally different batch than the defective roll I got around the end of December (2017)
Honestly, when comparing the Premiums of each majors mgf of vinyl (3M, Oracal, Avery, Arlon) I don't see much difference in the vinyl properly (top layer). They all print similarly, respond (responded) well to my EcoSolvent ink. For years... I have Roland printers since 2004 and can't really complain 'bout 'em... I see more of the difference in adhesive and how it holds on liners when I do print n' cuts jobs (in that area 3M is way ahead of competition). What I hate about Avery is the unused left overs / rest of rolls must be printed quickly otherwise the vinyl kinda sweat grease stuff. It can't be seen on picture but it cannot be printed once this "sweat" process is started. I must wipe the entire surface with clean rag and alcohol. All other balances of rolls, whatever the brands, never show a sign of time passed, no matter how long it stood there in my rack. I often keeps the remaining 10-12ft of a roll for door decals or smaller jobs in order to use all the material.
Honestly, when comparing the Premiums of each majors mgf of vinyl (3M, Oracal, Avery, Arlon) I don't see much difference in the vinyl properly (top layer). They all print similarly, respond (responded) well to my EcoSolvent ink. For years... I have Roland printers since 2004 and can't really complain 'bout 'em... I see more of the difference in adhesive and how it holds on liners when I do print n' cuts jobs (in that area 3M is way ahead of competition). What I hate about Avery is the unused left overs / rest of rolls must be printed quickly otherwise the vinyl kinda sweat grease stuff. It can't be seen on picture but it cannot be printed once this "sweat" process is started. I must wipe the entire surface with clean rag and alcohol. All other balances of rolls, whatever the brands, never show a sign of time passed, no matter how long it stood there in my rack. I often keeps the remaining 10-12ft of a roll for door decals or smaller jobs in order to use all the material.
klingsdesigns
New Member
So your using 1105 and what laminate. I think I might order a roll for wraps after I use this roll up. I was just at 3m's open house and they acted like they didnt have bad rolls. One other sign shop there was experiencing the same exact problem. Does the 180cv3 print good? Just the mc thats bad?