Issues with 3m 180mc

[CSOCSO]

Just an FYI. The 3M175 is not a cure all solution. If you prefer 3M like us (with eco-solvent printing) it is the best option available since the changes to the 3M materials imo.
In the sample below is a print I ran just an hour ago. Avery 1105 on the top and 3M 175 on the bottom. (Disregard the holidays from dust on the samples). You can obviously see a
considerable difference in quality. The 3M 175 does not work correctly with certain colors. In these samples all RIP specs were left the same. We only changed the rolls out and hit the print button.
If Avery 1105/ laminated had a decent warranty, we would strongly consider switching brands. Very frustrating!!!
Patentagosse.. I imagine you are just now seeing these effects on the materials due to your suppliers quantity of product movement . We seen it months ago because ours vendors
move more product. Unfortunately for you and others it will continue.

Change profile! Check the total ink limitations in that particular profile and try to lower it or pick another profile with lower number or make a custom one. That's what i did when i couldn't get a decent red out of the avery 1105 profile because total ink limitation was at %180 (out of the %400 since there are 4 colors)
When i changed it to %220 the red started to have all kind of artifects. changed it to %200 and red color looked great and smooth.

 

[CSOCSO]

Btw we used 3m 180 all the time (before they changed the glue to X pattern from the straigh lines) We changed to avery because it was $300 cheaper /kit and twice as easy to install especially if you print with eco solvent.

I got excited for the 175 until i read about the glue removal part

 

[jfiscus]

We haven't printed either of those two vinyls here, but I'm wondering if there is a surface coating to optimize latex printing on the one that is giving you issues? It looks like a latex/solvent issue to me from when we had latex and solvent machines in-house and accidentally put the wrong roll on a printer. We are still rolling with regular old 3M 180c here, it's been working since forever and doesn't have issues.

 

[BUCKY]

Change profile! Check the total ink limitations in that particular profile and try to lower it or pick another profile with lower number or make a custom one. That's what i did when i couldn't get a decent red out of the avery 1105 profile because total ink limitation was at %180 (out of the %400 since there are 4 colors)
When i changed it to %220 the red started to have all kind of artifects. changed it to %200 and red color looked great and smooth.

We have no issues printing any colors on Avery whatsoever. Everything looks awesome on 1105. In fact it is so good you can not tell the film is printed versus
a colored film. Issue we have with Avery films is the laminate has a very poor warranty. The film has a good warranty but the laminate does not an no one can tell us
why that is.The only time we will use it is if we know the customer is under a three year trade cycle on what we are applying it to.

 

[redprint]

I have been printing on 180CV3 and SV480mc and both materials will band in most colors. It is totally frustrating. I have tried everything to reduce it but it won't go away. I print on IJ35C and it hardly has any banding at all. I print on ESM-GPP2 10 pt. by Roland and it is flawless. no banding anywhere on any color. I go back to 180CV3 and sv480mc and banding all day long. It is the material, nothing but. I have printed rolls and rolls and tried numerous profiles, settings, etc, and nothing changes the banding. It is 3M that made this and why it doesn't print well. I use eco solvent Max 2 inks on a Roland XR640 printer. It doesn't like the eco solvent max 2 inks. I don't know of any other printers that have problems laying the ink down on these two materials, if anyone has experience let me know please. It has been this way for me, for over a year now. I am frustrated and done with it, I am looking at other vinyls now to do my wraps. I love the 3M adhesive, it goes down great. But if you graphics look banded, it is a killer.

 

[BUCKY]

I have been printing on 180CV3 and SV480mc and both materials will band in most colors. It is totally frustrating. I have tried everything to reduce it but it won't go away. I print on IJ35C and it hardly has any banding at all. I print on ESM-GPP2 10 pt. by Roland and it is flawless. no banding anywhere on any color. I go back to 180CV3 and sv480mc and banding all day long. It is the material, nothing but. I have printed rolls and rolls and tried numerous profiles, settings, etc, and nothing changes the banding. It is 3M that made this and why it doesn't print well. I use eco solvent Max 2 inks on a Roland XR640 printer. It doesn't like the eco solvent max 2 inks. I don't know of any other printers that have problems laying the ink down on these two materials, if anyone has experience let me know please. It has been this way for me, for over a year now. I am frustrated and done with it, I am looking at other vinyls now to do my wraps. I love the 3M adhesive, it goes down great. But if you graphics look banded, it is a killer.

Said it before and I will say it again. Throw it all away and get 175Cv3 if you want to continue to use 3M. 3M changed something and will not admit to it at all.
Been down the banding road with roll after roll of 180 from all different vendors.
You should have seen the look on the 3M Reps face the day he was at our shop and I printed solid colors on Avery 1105 in front of him to prove it was their film that was
the issue. First I printed on 3M 180 and it was total banded garbage. Then he watched the same file print come out of our Roland 540VS on 1105 totally flawless with....... get this....3Ms profile!!
He wanted to crawl in a hole I think but they are trained to never admit to anything!
Why do you think they came out with the 175Cv3? A lot of shops spent a lot of money on print heads and techs because of it, including us!

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Said it before and I will say it again. Throw it all away and get 175Cv3 if you want to continue to use 3M. 3M changed something and will not admit to it at all.
Been down the banding road with roll after roll of 180 from all different vendors.
You should have seen the look on the 3M Reps face the day he was at our shop and I printed solid colors on Avery 1105 in front of him to prove it was their film that was
the issue. First I printed on 3M 180 and it was total banded garbage. Then he watched the same file print come out of our Roland 540VS on 1105 totally flawless with....... get this....3Ms profile!!
He wanted to crawl in a hole I think but they are trained to never admit to anything!
Why do you think they came out with the 175Cv3? A lot of shops spent a lot of money on print heads and techs because of it, including us!

175 is total garbage... Go remove any of that film after about a month and enjoy the gobs of adhesive left behind.

 

[klingsdesigns]

175 is total garbage... Go remove any of that film after about a month and enjoy the gobs of adhesive left behind.

Is it that bad? I had a feeling it would happen, havent had to remove it yet for a full wrap thank god. What are you using then for a calendard vinyl and then a cast vinyl. We are thinking of making the move to avery. Just hate switching and then having to give all my print shop customers new color charts and what not.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

For Calendared ("Wrapping" Grade) we use 3M 40c + 8048 or Avery 2921 + 3M 8048. For Cast we prefer Avery 1105 + 1060Z (or 6460) when possible, but we also use 180Cv3 (client requirements) and also IOM's new cast (waiting to test removability soon).

We have done a sample on our hood of 175 and removed 30 days later to Find 3Ms 30% adhesive left behind is a gross understatement.

 

[klingsdesigns]

For Calendared ("Wrapping" Grade) we use 3M 40c + 8048 or Avery 2921 + 3M 8048. For Cast we prefer Avery 1105 + 1060Z (or 6460) when possible, but we also use 180Cv3 (client requirements) and also IOM's new cast (waiting to test removability soon).

We have done a sample on our hood of 175 and removed 30 days later to Find 3Ms 30% adhesive left behind is a gross understatement.

Thanks for the info. I will make sure i stop using that then.

I have had used 40c on trailers and a couple of them are failing on the seams. We have to use the sealit pen to get it to stay down.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Did you happen to use 8508 laminate on those?

I have seen where the 8508 is shrinking and causing the vinyl to curl.... we have completely switched to 8048 and have great results from it.

 

[BUCKY]

175 is total garbage... Go remove any of that film after about a month and enjoy the gobs of adhesive left behind.

For Calendared ("Wrapping" Grade) we use 3M 40c + 8048 or Avery 2921 + 3M 8048. For Cast we prefer Avery 1105 + 1060Z (or 6460) when possible, but we also use 180Cv3 (client requirements) and also IOM's new cast (waiting to test removability soon).

We have done a sample on our hood of 175 and removed 30 days later to Find 3Ms 30% adhesive left behind is a gross understatement.

So straight up.... how does the 1105 with laminate actually hold up? The warranty is not impressive, however I am thinking Avery is at least being honest.
I know they had trouble a while back with material but they did admit there was an issue.

Does it tunnel back around rivets? Does it stay down in the sharp body lines with just post heating?

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

So straight up.... how does the 1105 with laminate actually hold up? The warranty is not impressive, however I am thinking Avery is at least being honest.
I know they had trouble a while back with material but they did admit there was an issue.

Does it tunnel back around rivets? Does it stay down in the sharp body lines with just post heating?

we Switched 3 years ago and I haven't had but 1 failure. The failure was due to the way the vehicle was parked (in front of a tinted window facing south west) and the 1360 laminate burned. Other than that issue all of the other wraps we have done in 3 years have held up no worse than 3M in our brutal environment.

 

[klingsdesigns]

Did you happen to use 8508 laminate on those?

I have seen where the 8508 is shrinking and causing the vinyl to curl.... we have completely switched to 8048 and have great results from it.

We used 8048.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

We used 8048.

That's not good... Is it on a vinyl overlap or is it cut to the edge of a aluminum skin?

 

[klingsdesigns]

That's not good... Is it on a vinyl overlap or is it cut to the edge of a aluminum skin?

It’s the metal seam on trailer where panel over laps. When applying vinyl I go over it and trim with knife up the seam. It doesn’t like to stay on top panel edge at all and sometimes back panel as well. I don’t get it. We prep really well and also heat up afterwards. The last trailer we did was my own and I noticed it less than a week later.

 

[ikarasu]

For Calendared ("Wrapping" Grade) we use 3M 40c + 8048 or Avery 2921 + 3M 8048. For Cast we prefer Avery 1105 + 1060Z (or 6460) when possible, but we also use 180Cv3 (client requirements) and also IOM's new cast (waiting to test removability soon).

We have done a sample on our hood of 175 and removed 30 days later to Find 3Ms 30% adhesive left behind is a gross understatement.

Funny enough I got an E-mail from 3M Today about 175... I saw the price point and laughed. It's nearly double 180CV3/MC, at least their E-mail listed it as double. I don't see any upside to 175, especially with all that leftover glue...

How is the clearness on the 8048? We use 8508 a lot, we're lucky enough to never have an issue with it... but it's very cloudy. I'm stuck with 3M since we're a preferred shop, but I'm having a hell of a time finding a good intermediate over laminate from them, 8518 is way too expensive for short term stuff.

 

[klingsdesigns]

Seems clear and has a nice gloss finish. No cloudiness.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

It’s the metal seam on trailer where panel over laps. When applying vinyl I go over it and trim with knife up the seam. It doesn’t like to stay on top panel edge at all and sometimes back panel as well. I don’t get it. We prep really well and also heat up afterwards. The last trailer we did was my own and I noticed it less than a week later.

What you saw was the KIT/COMBO Price. Not the Vinyl roll only price.