Notarealsignguy
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No, we all know that you wear loafers
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It was only a few days ago....
- Thread starter Texas_Signmaker
- Start date
Texas_Signmaker said:
Yeah, for anyone reading the thread not familiar with events in this region, the Hotter'N Hell Hundred is the largest single-day 100 mile endurance bicycle race in the United States. It's held in Wichita Falls every year in late August. There are some shorter distance races and more recreational-style rides at the event that weekend. We have an annual bike race up here called the Tour of the Wichitas, but it's not as hardcore as the Hotter'N Hell 100 (but it is more scenic).
I think we've already had 2 or 3 blast furnace style Summers within the last decade, including one that beat out the awful Summers of 1980 and 1998. But the last couple or so Summers have been relatively mild. We might be in for it this Summer. I'm just praying we don't have a bunch of hail and tornadoes between now and Memorial Day weekend. Usually things go bone dry here after Memorial Day. I don't mind wind damage so much; we tend to get some sign business from that!
Texas_Signmaker said:
I don't know all the details about how electrical plans are sold to consumers in Texas, but from what I understand there are shady practices and not all the gory details are made plain and clear up front. Truth in advertising kind of goes out the window when those pesky regulations are removed. Some of the companies selling power are Johnny-come-lately arrivals to the market. Griddy, one of the biggest offenders in this price gouging mess, is a 3-year old start-up based in California.
I'm not on any kind of contract or averaged plan for my gas or electric service here in Oklahoma. Nevertheless I don't see my utility bills going through any huge price swings. The bills stay in a pretty dependable range. That's due in part to the regulations in place.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Yeah, for anyone reading the thread not familiar with events in this region, the Hotter'N Hell Hundred is the largest single-day 100 mile endurance bicycle race in the United States. It's held in Wichita Falls every year in late August. There are some shorter distance races and more recreational-style rides at the event that weekend. We have an annual bike race up here called the Tour of the Wichitas, but it's not as hardcore as the Hotter'N Hell 100 (but it is more scenic).
I think we've already had 2 or 3 blast furnace style Summers within the last decade, including one that beat out the awful Summers of 1980 and 1998. But the last couple or so Summers have been relatively mild. We might be in for it this Summer. I'm just praying we don't have a bunch of hail and tornadoes between now and Memorial Day weekend. Usually things go bone dry here after Memorial Day. I don't mind wind damage so much; we tend to get some sign business from that!
I don't know all the details about how electrical plans are sold to consumers in Texas, but from what I understand there are shady practices and not all the gory details are made plain and clear up front. Truth in advertising kind of goes out the window when those pesky regulations are removed. Some of the companies selling power are Johnny-come-lately arrivals to the market. Griddy, one of the biggest offenders in this price gouging mess, is a 3-year old start-up based in California.
I'm not on any kind of contract or averaged plan for my gas or electric service here in Oklahoma. Nevertheless I don't see my utility bills going through any huge price swings. The bills stay in a pretty dependable range. That's due in part to the regulations in place.
All the information about the electric plans is right there...all you need to do is learn how to read. If people gloss over it and don't read then they will just rip themselves off. There are all kind of weird plans... like free nights and weekends but the rape you during the peak hours... or a flat rate up 1000 kwh and then rape after that. Just pick a regular plan and you're fine.
Notarealsignguy
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Caveat emptor. If people want to hold companies responsible then maybe they should use that thing between their ears a little bit more too.
Texas_Signmaker said:
Some of it might boil down to buyer beware. But It doesn't sound like all the information was plainly there for all to easily see. Where in the verbiage does Griddy warn consumers they could end up paying $6000-$17000 for one week of electrical service (and have their bank account instantly emptied)?
What makes this look especially bad for those utility companies is that they're charging wind-fall, price-gouging rates all while they did next to nothing to prepare for this kind of disaster. 10 years ago there was a major blackout in Texas during Super Bowl week. There were plenty of hearings and warnings after those hearings that Texas' power grid needed to be upgraded and winterized to be ready for another one of these weather events. The utilities blew off those recommendations and didn't do a d***ed thing.
The situation is bad enough that lawmakers from both sides of the aisle are raising hell about it. But just like those "stupid" consumers, those politicians should have known better. 20 years ago certain politicians were trying to push Oklahoma into adopting a "free market" utilities system like Texas and the voters shot it down.
Notarealsignguy
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I don't typically stick up for companies but the companies were charged crazy rates, they are just resellers, not producers. Why is it on them to eat the excessive cost that they incurred and the people agreed to pay for? The consumers were being cheap, they signed a risky contract that was clear to anyone with half a brain cell that it could go both ways. When they were paying much less, did the consumers send in extra payments since their bills were less than their neighbors? Life is a 2 way street. This wasn't a matter of them being unscrupulous at all and honestly, they did the right thing by sending out warnings. This reminds me of the interest only loans that bit people. Everyone cried foul over their stupid decision and at the end of it all, the consumers and banks both ate it. Just like what is gonna happen now. People need to wisen up.
Notarealsignguy
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This is what they call pandering. The same ones raising holy hell are the same ones that pushed the deregulation. I think they coined this flip flopping?
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
The reason we didn't wise up 10 years ago is because in two days the temps are in the 80s and we're running A/C... who's thinking about cold when they are sweating in heat?
For 10 years I lived in a part of Texas that was not on the Texas grid... and was regulated. You only had one power company to choose from. Every year SWEPCO would go to state regulators and ask for rate increases and they would get it... and if it took a year for the approval...they back billed you the price increase for that year!
When I moved to a part of the state that was deregulated, my cost per kwh dropped almost in half....I'd say that's a good system. At first when I had to pick a power plan it was overwhelming... there is like 100 to choose from...but on the website you can select "flat rate" and it kicks all those stupid variable rate plans out the window... then you see just regular old kwh plans... none that have weird peak or off peak rates or usage limits. I really was surprised how easy it was to figure out... I thought it was going to be more complicated but 10 minutes of reading is all it really took.... I've spent more time trying to figure out what is for dinner.
The free market has opened the door to bad plans that idiots choose... that's their own fault... free market and they are free to be idiots... but it DOES benefit most people if you have half a brain and just get normal service...
For 10 years I lived in a part of Texas that was not on the Texas grid... and was regulated. You only had one power company to choose from. Every year SWEPCO would go to state regulators and ask for rate increases and they would get it... and if it took a year for the approval...they back billed you the price increase for that year!
When I moved to a part of the state that was deregulated, my cost per kwh dropped almost in half....I'd say that's a good system. At first when I had to pick a power plan it was overwhelming... there is like 100 to choose from...but on the website you can select "flat rate" and it kicks all those stupid variable rate plans out the window... then you see just regular old kwh plans... none that have weird peak or off peak rates or usage limits. I really was surprised how easy it was to figure out... I thought it was going to be more complicated but 10 minutes of reading is all it really took.... I've spent more time trying to figure out what is for dinner.
The free market has opened the door to bad plans that idiots choose... that's their own fault... free market and they are free to be idiots... but it DOES benefit most people if you have half a brain and just get normal service...
GAC05
Quit buggin' me
Have you tried cornstarch to get rid of that 'feeling'?
Works here in the tropics.
Notarealsignguy said:
I guarantee you those re-sellers aren't paying those excessive costs. But they are charging excessive costs on an even more extreme degree than what futures speculators have done with commodities like oil.
Notarealsignguy said:
Do you carefully read line by line the EULA for every piece of computer software you buy and install? For any tangible retail product you buy do you always carefully read the little piece of paper with legal-ese published in microscopic sized type? Very few people do. They click past those EULAs and throw the little product disclaimers in the trash with the rest of the packaging.
Again, truth in advertising is a very slippery thing in the US today, especially with anything that is seriously de-regulated.
Texas_Signmaker said:
I'm not buying that. I lived through the same storm and it did unreal damage up here. We had an inch of ice accumulation here in Lawton. My neighborhood was without power for a week. I had to stay with some friends and my house got burglarized the last night I was away from home. I spent all Spring cleaning up and hauling off branches from trees that were torn to shreds in my back yard. It was a freaking nightmare.
Some of that nightmare was put into play decades ago when people in my part of town decided to build their backyard fences over the utility easements. Trees grew up between the fences and up into the power lines. That's the kind of stuff that happens when a city council has zero backbone to stand up to home owners wanting to do illegal nonsense. Rather than just tell everyone "tough $#!+" American Electric Power came in and fixed the problem after the ice storm. They pulled all their power lines off the poles in everyone's backyards, relocating them out front buried under the front yards. It didn't cost residents anything extra. AEP/PSO was actually saving money by doing this because they wouldn't have crews out dealing with those power lines every time some severe weather event happened. The hour-long rolling blackout we had Monday last week was the first power outage my neighborhood experienced in at least several years.
Texas_Signmaker said:
That term IDIOT keeps being thrown around. Well, that works both ways. I could call the people in those companies selling those sleazy plans to consumers idiots for doing so. But that would be letting them off the hook too easy. They knew what they were doing and knew the potential for what could happen and sold the sleazy product anyway. A simple term for that would be "evil." I look at them on the same level as someone selling heroin on the street.
It sounds like you don't have the slightest bit of sympathy for consumers being financially wiped out by those bills. I don't have the slightest bit of sympathy for the companies handing them those bills. Did those companies not understand the potential for blow-back they were risking? The public relations nightmare and political complications are one thing. But if some middle class or lower income person without a lot of spare money in the bank suddenly gets hit with a $16000 bill from the electric company all sorts of dangerous, desperate things can happen. People get shot for less.
Texas_Signmaker said:
It doesn't work like that here in Oklahoma. But then I guess the Oklahoma Corporation Commission has more of a back bone. AEP/PSO usually has to make a very good case in order to get any rate increases pushed through. When the rare increase happens I'm not getting retro-actively back-billed either.[/I]
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
It's not the same. EULA on software is an endless pile of legal jargon... The disclosures on the power plans is in plain English and is right there in your face as you sign up. If you've never signed up for a plan in Texas how can you know and comment on OUR system??
Ray Miller
Owner
Around here they have Plain People and the Amish and they don't have these problems. In most cases many of them generate their own power to run businesses and sell the overage to the electric companies. Talk about a neat setup. They're never without power. Never.
Texas_Signmaker said:
Plain English. Right. Show me where they specifically and clearly warn a variable rate plan can nail a customer with a $5000-$15000 bill for one month or even one week worth of electricity. I strongly doubt it's a bullet point any of those companies want to openly advertise.
Because it a NATIONAL NEWS STORY and a bunch of people in Texas have been instantly plunged into financially desperate situations. The news story should be a cautionary tale for any other states looking to allow the same unethical stupidity to take hold there. They tried pushing that deregulation garbage here in Oklahoma 20 years ago and I thank God lawmakers weren't stupid enough to allow it. Normally I would think of someone suddenly going $5000, $10000 or more in the hole as being the result of a terrible weekend at WinStar Casino, not something mundane as an electric bill.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
That's like saying they should ban all free market sign shops because somewhere someone ripped someone off and did shoddy work.
Griddy even warned their customers BEFORE the storm to switch from them to someone else and that it could get very expensive. You can't prevent stupid forever...eventually that will catch up.
Like I said, you don't live here so it's hard for outsiders to comment. I was getting emails and texts from Atmos and my electric company about conserving resources , and plenty of warning on the news about the infrastructure being stressed before the storm came.
Griddy even warned their customers BEFORE the storm to switch from them to someone else and that it could get very expensive. You can't prevent stupid forever...eventually that will catch up.
Like I said, you don't live here so it's hard for outsiders to comment. I was getting emails and texts from Atmos and my electric company about conserving resources , and plenty of warning on the news about the infrastructure being stressed before the storm came.
Notarealsignguy
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Griddy sent out warnings to their customers that advised them of what was coming and even told them it would be in their best interest for them to switch providers. Not real sure how much more you can do short of cutting off their power to save them from their own stupidity. Then the people would complain about that. They say that cheap is expensive for a reason.
MikePro
New Member
same users were praising their $.03/kwH rates while all "those suckers" were fixed at $.09-$.12. Devil's always in the details.
Better believe I'da been flipping my main breaker once I saw that rate climbing to $1...let alone let the bill keep running at $9/kwh!?! $300/day in energy costs, eff it I'm crossing state lines and living in a Best Western for $60/night.
but hey, while we can just simply skip out on those energy-bill/contracts, or even file lawsuits, because "it was a disaster"....then how about extending such courtesies to student loans/mortgages/creditcards that jack-up your variable-rates or even more sinister/devastating PayDayLoan scams/businesses that are gouging clients amidst pandemic shutdowns?
Better believe I'da been flipping my main breaker once I saw that rate climbing to $1...let alone let the bill keep running at $9/kwh!?! $300/day in energy costs, eff it I'm crossing state lines and living in a Best Western for $60/night.
but hey, while we can just simply skip out on those energy-bill/contracts, or even file lawsuits, because "it was a disaster"....then how about extending such courtesies to student loans/mortgages/creditcards that jack-up your variable-rates or even more sinister/devastating PayDayLoan scams/businesses that are gouging clients amidst pandemic shutdowns?
Texas_Signmaker said:
That's a ridiculous analogy on so many fronts. Sign companies don't have any leverage over customers at all, much less the kind of leverage a utility company can wield. There is no scenario where a sign company can suddenly raise its prices by 10,000% without immediately going out of business. The vast majority of sign companies are small businesses with single locations. There is no organized, mass-affiliation of industry-wide collusion where one sign company's shoddy work can be used to punish everyone else. The sign industry isn't exactly a regulation-free business either. We have to comply with rules from several different bodies (DOT, OSHA, EPA, etc) along with building our products to comply with local sign codes.
Even if a single company somehow managed to monopolize the sign business in the United States that company still wouldn't have customers sprawled over the barrel. Signs are a discretionary purchase, even if they are a necessity for brick and mortar businesses. So if a hypothetical monopolized sign company wanted to crank up its prices the customers could respond by buying as little as possible or maybe just hand-paint or build their own stuff, even if it looked terrible. There are no laws against DIY self-signage.
Texas_Signmaker said:
From this side of the Red River it is pretty easy to see the electric utility situation in Texas has turned into a 100% $#!+ show. If the arrangement was 100% acceptable we would not have seen five board members from ERCOT resign. The controversy has a long way to go before playing itself out.
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Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
When it came to light that many on the board don't live in Texas, that didn't go over well down here. Outsiders trying to make decisions about our power doesn't sound good. The governor said that he was going to make it a requirement that if you are on the board or ERCOT that you need to live in the state. Those that resigned were out of state members... and their resignation was well received here.
Like I said, the only ones that can criticize our system is ourselves. We'll figure it out and don't need outside help... that's the reason we have our own system is to avoid federal oversight and keep control local.
GAC05
Quit buggin' me
You should recall those board members and hook them up to one of these generators until those ridiculous power bills are paid off for the consumers.
Did wonders for Conan's self-esteem, after his king gig he went on to become the governor of California.
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