John Don't Go!

[Billct2]

Maybe it's not those who object to being vilified that are the thin skinned ones.

 

[CES020]

I did not ask for Gino's return, I also told Gino what I thought about what he did.
Gino got what was coming to him... Butto is being a drama queen... errr, king

Fair enough Rick.

 

[iSign]

Maybe it's not those who object to being vilified that are the thin skinned ones.

Hadn't actually occurred to me, but that is a brilliant observation!

 

[Joe Diaz]

I agree with what Rick has posted, and frankly I am relieved to see that I wasn't the only one who felt this way and it wasn't just a figment of my imagination... and that I really wasn't even getting the worst of it. That is why I'm chiming in, because the rest of you need to know what is actually going on here, and also, I like when Rick posts. He brings soo much more to the table here in this forum and that goes for all the other people John would target on a regular basis. So I'm going to back Rick up here. Don't get me wrong here. We aren't trying to be the victims, but we sure as heck aren't going to bend over and take it just because some guy has some issues. John wants to play the victim in this case and wants us all to beg him to stay after he purposely started the drama.

The truth is it has gotten to the point where I personally was afraid to post anything at all, especially any jobs I've been working on. I stopped participating as much for similar reasons to the ones Rick pointed out and because I knew as soon as I did post something, some folks, especially John, would find a way to bring their drama into the thread and drag it down. And it's not ego here folks, "thin skin" doesn't have a thing to do with it. Most of us deal with feedback and even rejection from our clients, the people that pay us, every single day. Some guy criticizing a design on a sign forum isn't a problem at all. We weren't threatened by a "rebuke" from John or anyone else, but show me one person here that would enjoy sharing the projects they worked extremely hard on only to have someone using a fake identity troll your threads and not just go after the work you have done, but you personally, THEN follow it up with more "rubukes" in you PM inbox. You can sit there and pretend some of us are being overly sensitive, but you know I'm right because hardly anyone posts their work anymore, except for new folks on the forum who haven't learned by now. And I don't blame anyone for not wanting to share not only their work, but any comments just because they want avoid all the drama.

Some of you may enjoy the drama and excitement that John and Gino brought to the table, especially when it wasn't directed at you, I think everyone likes a little bit of drama, but hell that's what Law and Order is for. This is our profession. I bet you all that if people weren't so turned off by all the drama and posted more of their work and ideas, this place would be much more enjoyable and rewarding to be a part of.

Some of you folks comment about how helpful John was, especially in PMs, but some of us have a completely different experience of the guy in our PMs and even in the open forum. He did give out amazing advice, but from time to time he was looking for trouble too, and was purposely trying to create conflict where it didn't exist. I don't want to see the part of John that was helpful leave, just like I didn't want to see the part of Gino that was helpful be kicked off of signs 101, but if we have to take the part of John that is hell bent on causing trouble in order to have the helpful John too, and since he has chosen to leave, then I'm certainly not going to beg him to stay.

...and the cartoons and caricatures were the least of it. Even though his cartoons weren't really that funny to me personally and some were just plain weird, most of them were lighthearted. Perhaps that why some of you assume John is the victim of someone with thin skin here, but the one he posted yesterday was not lighthearted. That being said, If it were of me instead of who it was directed at I might have wanted to see it stay so that folks could see the different side of John some of us had been experiencing. It sure as heck said much more about him as a person than it did the person he was making fun of.

You have to ask yourself, who really has the thin skin here and who is the guy taking his ball and going home? Perhaps it's one and the same person.

 

[randya]

Many people here have given me great advice and tons of help, but he has gone above and beyond many times to help me out. When others would laugh and make fun and not give any helpful advice, I would almost always get a great response out of John that pointed me in the right direction. I definitely don't want to see him go.

bump for me.

 

[laserman70]

This place can be harsh at times.. That is what made me a better designer...
Pictures i did not see, I am sure Fred was right to delete.. after all, it is his to do so.

Hope you dont go John, I enjoy your comments and have learned alot from you..

 

[John Butto]

And now you know...

So I go away for one day and a couple people are writing all over my front porch. That's fine, it can be cleaned up, I have anti graffiti laminate on it.

The real story.
I took my ball to the playground to shoot some baskets, there is this little guy showing off to all the people around the court. I ask him if he wants to play some one on one, he responds by talking on and on about being this and that and people sweatin him and everyone thinks he is great. So I prod him a couple of times and ask again if he wants to play one on one, see what he's got. Nothing, he just looks at me. Then his buddy comes up, Rick, I ask him if he wants to go one on one. He tells me if he can make any money at it, he says "he likes to make money". Says he is real good at it though but he needs the money. Well, no game there either. Then this other friend of the little guy shows up, looks like Ali G with an entourage with him. He does not want to play either but says he has a semi pro, seven foot guy he hired to do his playing for him, Ali G says he is an expert on the game, even has a couple of books out on the subject. Says he has even been on TV about the game. I say great, you want to play, he just looks at me also. I call him a couple of names to goat him to play.
Low and behold he runs off to get the playground supervisor, next thing I know this older gentleman with a gray, sweaty, paint splattered t shirt with black letters across the front that read F.R.E.D. shows up. He tells me to quit bothering the kids and go home. He tells me that I am not banned from the park but the next time I visit he wants me to be nicer to the "special" kids.
I tell him fine, it was getting pretty boring shooting baskets by myself anyways.

And, "that's all I have to say about that".

 

[TimToad]

Oh brother.................

 

[Jane Diaz]

 

[Rick]

Nothing psychotropic medications and maybe a series
a shock treatments couldn't fix...

C'mon now... it's obvious.. right?

 

[HDvinyl]

Wait, your real name isn't John Butto, deeming this dezign worthless??

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

The truth is it has gotten to the point where I personally was afraid to post anything at all, especially any jobs I've been working on.

I’m not taking sides, but coming from one of the most recognized graphic artists, I find this statement troubling.

I am no way in the same league as a lot of the people on this forum, so I love going on and seeing the awesome work that some people post on here.

I think, with your level of expertise, and quality of work, the simple rebuttal that word work the best is “why don’t you post up some of the work you have done, and lets compare” would

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

So I go away for one day and a couple people are writing all over my front porch. That's fine, it can be cleaned up, I have anti graffiti laminate on it.

The real story.
I took my ball to the playground to shoot some baskets, there is this little guy showing off to all the people around the court. I ask him if he wants to play some one on one, he responds by talking on and on about being this and that and people sweatin him and everyone thinks he is great. So I prod him a couple of times and ask again if he wants to play one on one, see what he's got. Nothing, he just looks at me. Then his buddy comes up, Rick, I ask him if he wants to go one on one. He tells me if he can make any money at it, he says "he likes to make money". Says he is real good at it though but he needs the money. Well, no game there either. Then this other friend of the little guy shows up, looks like Ali G with an entourage with him. He does not want to play either but says he has a semi pro, seven foot guy he hired to do his playing for him, Ali G says he is an expert on the game, even has a couple of books out on the subject. Says he has even been on TV about the game. I say great, you want to play, he just looks at me also. I call him a couple of names to goat him to play.
Low and behold he runs off to get the playground supervisor, next thing I know this older gentleman with a gray, sweaty, paint splattered t shirt with black letters across the front that read F.R.E.D. shows up. He tells me to quit bothering the kids and go home. He tells me that I am not banned from the park but the next time I visit he wants me to be nicer to the "special" kids.
I tell him fine, it was getting pretty boring shooting baskets by myself anyways.

And, "that's all I have to say about that".

WTF

 

[HDvinyl]

I think someone wants to be the greatest...

[video=youtube;zBHkmDWgmIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBHkmDWgmIA[/video]

 

[Joe Diaz]

...the simple rebuttal that would work the best is “why don’t you post up some of the work you have done, and lets compare”

I don't mind critiques at all. I don't like the drama when I post in the portfolio though. I personally wouldn't use your rebuttal. It's not my style. Comparing portfolios doesn't make me or the other person better as a designer. Based on John's last post I can see he's just wanting to compete with some of us (btw welcome back John that was quickest self-exile I've ever seen). He wants to compete? That's fine I guess, I don't... at least not with him... not someone who incapable of doing so without letting things get nasty or personal. (Too late I guess) I'm more interested in trying to improve and be better than I was yesterday than I am competing with a guy who sells logos for $20. I try not to get so worked up about who is a better or worst designer than I am. That can drive a person crazy stewing over all that. I just want to do what I love doing, design, improve at it, share with my peers, some of which are better designers, some that aren't, receive quality feedback, and not have someone ride my a$$ because he somehow thinks having some sort of childish competition with me and others is going to make him a better designer. But now you guys can see, by his own admission, no one was going after him and trying to get him to leave, this is all his doing.

 

[ChicagoGraphics]

Children will be children.....

 

[Pat Whatley]

So I go away for one day and a couple people are writing all over my front porch. That's fine, it can be cleaned up, I have anti graffiti laminate on it.

The real story.
I took my ball to the playground to shoot some baskets, there is this little guy showing off to all the people around the court. I ask him if he wants to play some one on one, he responds by talking on and on about being this and that and people sweatin him and everyone thinks he is great. So I prod him a couple of times and ask again if he wants to play one on one, see what he's got. Nothing, he just looks at me. Then his buddy comes up, Rick, I ask him if he wants to go one on one. He tells me if he can make any money at it, he says "he likes to make money". Says he is real good at it though but he needs the money. Well, no game there either. Then this other friend of the little guy shows up, looks like Ali G with an entourage with him. He does not want to play either but says he has a semi pro, seven foot guy he hired to do his playing for him, Ali G says he is an expert on the game, even has a couple of books out on the subject. Says he has even been on TV about the game. I say great, you want to play, he just looks at me also. I call him a couple of names to goat him to play.
Low and behold he runs off to get the playground supervisor, next thing I know this older gentleman with a gray, sweaty, paint splattered t shirt with black letters across the front that read F.R.E.D. shows up. He tells me to quit bothering the kids and go home. He tells me that I am not banned from the park but the next time I visit he wants me to be nicer to the "special" kids.
I tell him fine, it was getting pretty boring shooting baskets by myself anyways.

And, "that's all I have to say about that".

:Big Laugh Can we add that post to the Hall of Fame forum?

 

[bob]

I’m not taking sides, but coming from one of the most recognized graphic artists, I find this statement troubling...

It would appear that you, sir or madam as the case may be, are easily troubled. Or rather you seem to find it easy to choose to be troubled.

In this as with any forum and even dating back to Usenet, before the most of you were born, there always exists some most definite cliques. The individual players change over time but the each group's guidon never seems to fall.

There are the terminally insecure who tend to post what they do seeking aprobation. The ridiculous phrase 'constructive criticism' is often seen from these specimens.

There are those who seldom if ever show their work because they fear criticism.

These first couple of categories seem to contain the lion's share of the snivelers. Those who fail to take responsibility for what they read and often are insistent in their quest for an experience utterly devoid of anything they deem to be unpleasant.

There are others, more secure, that post what they do as if to say 'Beat that'. Most often not caring if you do. Or don't.

Those who likewise seldom post their product because their lack of interest in what anyone might think of it approaches total.

There exists another posse whose main derivative from participation, both passive and active, is solely for whatever entertainment value might be available. Moreover a subset of the squad, from time to time, passes on more or less informative observations, they are most all curmudgeons at heart.

Adding to the interplay, each sand pile has overlap with others and it's own groupies and detractors.

It's just words and sometimes pictures. No one has ever been shot at, had a big rock dropped on them, been served with a summons, or even broken a fingernail while plying these waters. Just words which are incapable of harm.

 

[player]

Artists, technicians, business people, labourers, sales people and many others all meet here.

I don't think John is purposefully being mean, to me he is just showing his creative and somewhat dry humor in his drawings, which sometimes go overboard. Especially with the mix of folks that hang out here.

 

[phototec]

It would appear that you, sir or madam as the case may be, are easily troubled. Or rather you seem to find it easy to choose to be troubled.

In this as with any forum and even dating back to Usenet, before the most of you were born, there always exists some most definite cliques. The individual players change over time but the each group's guidon never seems to fall.

There are the terminally insecure who tend to post what they do seeking aprobation. The ridiculous phrase 'constructive criticism' is often seen from these specimens.

There are those who seldom if ever show their work because they fear criticism.

These first couple of categories seem to contain the lion's share of the snivelers. Those who fail to take responsibility for what they read and often are insistent in their quest for an experience utterly devoid of anything they deem to be unpleasant.

There are others, more secure, that post what they do as if to say 'Beat that'. Most often not caring if you do. Or don't.

Those who likewise seldom post their product because their lack of interest in what anyone might think of it approaches total.

There exists another posse whose main derivative from participation, both passive and active, is solely for whatever entertainment value might be available. Moreover a subset of the squad, from time to time, passes on more or less informative observations, they are most all curmudgeons at heart.

Adding to the interplay, each sand pile has overlap with others and it's own groupies and detractors.

It's just words and sometimes pictures. No one has ever been shot at, had a big rock dropped on them, been served with a summons, or even broken a fingernail while plying these waters. Just words which are incapable of harm.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, ............Do you have feathers?