John Don't Go!

[player]

I wanted to keep my anonymity so my local competitors would not stalk me, or be able to poach my clients...

 

[Rick]

I tend to agree with what you say in principle Marlene.
I thought I had my info hidden as well to.

My only beef is... don't start something, like messing
with someones reputation, then hide behind your fake name.
What he showed on this site was only a tiny sliver what
he showed to other members off-site... I don't see that as funny
cute, a rebuke, or criticism. It's a person who has a need
for attention and his willingness to hurt someones business.

Wanna know something?
I know who John Butto is in real life.
I see no need to out him because, like you, I believe
strongly in his need to be invisible.

I don't personally know this guy, he sure as hell does not
know me, but what I do know is...
He knows his sign stuff, I could learn something from him.
I believe he has the ability to contribute a great deal here.
I think he should be allowed to be critical if thats what he
wants from this place. But he does not have the ability to
know anyones motives, he should keep that to himself
or people will defend themselves and have the right to do
so without fear of rebuke from other people who have no stake in
this.

 

[iSign]

I'm tempted to write several thoughts, but I'm meeting a flight and have limited time, so for now I'll just comment on anonymity ,or lack thereof, and how that does or does not relate to people's rights or credibility.

Like bob for example... while he has rights to post anything Fred will allow, he has zero credibility regarding his opinions of what's ethical or should be allowable regarding posting comments about another members real life persona. He may not agree, but his credibility is our business, not his (or JB's or Players or anyone else using a screen name)

Ok, flight arrived... more later

 

[kgirl]

 

[Joe Diaz]

But he does not have the ability to
know anyones motives, he should keep that to himself
or people will defend themselves and have the right to do
so without fear of rebuke from other people who have no stake in
this.

And that's what it's about. No one appreciates their motives being called into question. Like I pointed out in my last post, a person choosing to be anonymous does not always mean they are doing so just to be free to troll other members here or elsewhere on the internet. So I agree with you guys on that. I can easily see the many different good reasons to stay anonymous and to not post your work, especially now, and I will not question someone's motives or judge someone on that alone. But we all know there are people that use their anonymity to say things and to treat others in a way they probably wouldn't in real life. I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I will try to give people an inch, but if they take a mile and make their motives abundantly clear, which John has done in this case, well then there is nothing left to doubt. I gave John that benefit of the doubt for a long time now, but his recent actions made his intentions very clear.

Speaking of Gino, I won't pretend I know why Gino didn't post work, again, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on that one. however in one of his later posts on this forum before he was banned, he questioned the motives of people who posted designs and examples of their work. Claiming they did so mainly to brag.

So perhaps it is wrong for anyone to claim they know why someone doesn't post their work, or why they are or are not anonymous with no evidence proving their claim, but it's equally wrong to demonize someone for choosing to post their work or their choice to not be anonymous.

Registering for a second account for the same individual is not permitted. It can probably be done but there are a number of ways in place to prevent it. I won't spell them out, but they are there. On a typical day I spend a couple of hours moderating new registrations and this is one of the things that gets checked.

Thanks for the clarification, but I wasn't talking about having two accounts, I was mainly thinking of doing away with this one and starting a new one or changing the one I have now, if that can even be done. I don't know.

 

[CES020]

I can't speak on anything you true designers are going through, but from a different perspective, this forum was a better place because people like Joe, Rick, Dan, and countless others showed their creativity on so much stuff. It seriously raised the bar of this forum and made us all better for having experienced it. The generosity of those with such skill to step in and help teach those of us with so much less skill is great appreciated by me, for certain. Some of the best websites I ever visited and still visit today were posted by Jon Aston. If all those with knowledge decide not to post or help those of us less skilled, what's left?

We need you guys here, we appreciate your posts, even though so many of us look at things in silence because we don't feel qualified to even comment on the greatness you all share.

I certainly hope all of you will reconsider posting your work, adding comments and suggestions to those who ask for help, so we can all learn and make this industry stronger, instead of weaker.

Hats off to you guys for sticking it out and putting up with so much sh%t that we had no idea you all were going through. I hope you all will start to post more things sooner rather than later because so many of us learn so much from so many of you.

 

[SignManiac]

I post my stuff in order to inspire others to strive to better themselves. I have a screen name because I really am maniacal about signs. I don't hide who I am, I'm easy to find and I have never been stalked or harassed by any members of this forum. I avoid the drama, try to help those I can. I like john, he's offered me help many times. I.O.A.F.S.
Afterthought? , I've considered stopping posting my work because some may think I'm showboating, but for those several hundred guests that lurk behind the scenes, I hope I can impact them in a positive way and show them what they might some some day be able to do themselves.

High school antics aside, signs are a cool way to make a living.

 

[player]

I also really appreciate the good to fantastic work that gets posted here.

Please keep showing it to us. I don't think it matters if some people here are jealous because you do great sign work. Thousands of us thank those who do show us their work.

I guess that's why I was such a fan of John's posts. He has such a quick and easy flowing style. I wish I could whip up drawings so effortlessly. When I do illustrations or layouts it takes a lot out of me...

 

[Fred Weiss]

I can't speak on anything you true designers are going through, but from a different perspective, this forum was a better place because people like Joe, Rick, Dan, and countless others showed their creativity on so much stuff. It seriously raised the bar of this forum and made us all better for having experienced it. The generosity of those with such skill to step in and help teach those of us with so much less skill is great appreciated by me, for certain. Some of the best websites I ever visited and still visit today were posted by Jon Aston. If all those with knowledge decide not to post or help those of us less skilled, what's left?

We need you guys here, we appreciate your posts, even though so many of us look at things in silence because we don't feel qualified to even comment on the greatness you all share.

I certainly hope all of you will reconsider posting your work, adding comments and suggestions to those who ask for help, so we can all learn and make this industry stronger, instead of weaker.

Hats off to you guys for sticking it out and putting up with so much sh%t that we had no idea you all were going through. I hope you all will start to post more things sooner rather than later because so many of us learn so much from so many of you.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Thanks for the clarification, but I wasn't talking about having two accounts, I was mainly thinking of doing away with this one and starting a new one or changing the one I have now, if that can even be done. I don't know.

When someone is banned, their account record remains behind. So if they try to register after being banned, the forum software picks it up and points it out to the moderator because it is, in fact, a second account.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Speaking of Gino, I won't pretend I know why Gino didn't post work, again, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on that one. however in one of his later posts on this forum before he was banned, he questioned the motives of people who posted designs and examples of their work. Claiming they did so mainly to brag.

I picked up on the same comments from him on more than one occasion and concluded that this sentiment was the source of his never posting his own work.

 

[Rick]

I remember thinking this is how our relationship started out...

Completely stoked about it...

http://www.signs101.com/forums/showthread.php?103322-Thank-You-John-Butto&p=1083602#post1083602

How it ended was JB accusing me of showing off... odd thing was... it was not my job. it was Gigi's


I'd go back to the admiration I have for him... just leave peoples business out of it. I never got what he was
asking of me, and if that's what he wanted, then I can choose not to participate in his game... I don't have an agenda.
I'm here cuz I need sign people interaction.

I love seeing good work, Signmaniac, Dan, Joe, Neato, mural form... many others.

What I dig the most though, is when a newbie discovers a design principle. I really got into that,
though that was rare. I really need to re-think my participation here, but I think the biggest this is...
by not voicing my displeasure of the bullying going on, i condoned it. For that, I am sorry.

 

[GAC05]

I've seen this story line before........

Mean Girls (2004)
97 min - Comedy - 30 April 2004 (USA)

Ratings: 7.0/10 from 182,585 users Metascore: 66/100
Reviews: 518 user | 160 critic | 39 from Metacritic.com

Cady (Lindsay Lohan) is the 16-year-old home-schooled daughter of zoologist parents (Ana Gasteyer and Neil Flynn).
They have returned to the United States after residing in Africa for 12 years for their research. Cady is unprepared for her first day of public high school.
With the help of Janis (Lizzy Caplan) and Damien (Daniel Franzese), Cady learns about the various cliques. She is warned to avoid the school's most exclusive clique, the Plastics,
the reigning trio of girls led by the queen bee Regina George (Rachel McAdams).
The Plastics take an interest in Cady, inviting her to sit with them at lunch and go shopping with them after school. Upon realizing that Cady has been accepted into the Plastics, Janis hatches a plan to get revenge on Regina, using Cady to infiltrate the Plastics.

wayne k
guamusa

Atrib: IMDB online movie database

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

I post my stuff in order to inspire others to strive to better themselves. I have a screen name because I really am maniacal about signs. I don't hide who I am, I'm easy to find and I have never been stalked or harassed by any members of this forum. I avoid the drama, try to help those I can. I like john, he's offered me help many times. I.O.A.F.S.
Afterthought? , I've considered stopping posting my work because some may think I'm showboating, but for those several hundred guests that lurk behind the scenes, I hope I can impact them in a positive way and show them what they might some some day be able to do themselves.

High school antics aside, signs are a cool way to make a living.

Well said. I for one, look forward to seeing the master pieces you post up, as well as the work that Dan A., Grandpa Dan, Phillip, and several others. I do gain ideas from your work, and if someone says you post up to brag, &!;! €÷:& them. You have that right...Most of the time, I would bet, it's some one that only wishes they could create something to that level of detail, and they're so insecure that they can't congratulate, they tear apart... to make them selves feel better.

 

[Billct2]

I use a screen name because that was the standard when I joined. But I'm certainly not anonymous. I have posted a few jobs and done some design suggestion sketches. But I don't post photos of many jobs, mostly because I don't want someone using that info to try to steal a client. My favorite threads are the design workshops that sometimes occur when someone posts a design for critique. But of course they usually don't listen and get all defensive. But I once in a while the design ends up being great and that is fun to watch.

 

[iSign]

several years ago, I had my full name, location and company info out in the open as I stand behind anything I do or say in real life or online. a member, a person I might add who still is a member here contacted another member's customer not trying to steal work but just being an a$$. I was in contact thru PMs with the abused member and every since then, I've removed everything except my first name. I also will never post work here on the site as you never know what another member will do with the info.

Marlene,
This sounds close enough to an experience I fell victim to. Is that the story you are referring to? I thought I might refer to that in this thread, and then I read this, so I decided to ask.

 

[Bly]

I've seen this story line before........

Mean Girls (2004)
97 min - Comedy - 30 April 2004 (USA)

Ratings: 7.0/10 from 182,585 users Metascore: 66/100
Reviews: 518 user | 160 critic | 39 from Metacritic.com

Cady (Lindsay Lohan) is the 16-year-old home-schooled daughter of zoologist parents (Ana Gasteyer and Neil Flynn).
They have returned to the United States after residing in Africa for 12 years for their research. Cady is unprepared for her first day of public high school.
With the help of Janis (Lizzy Caplan) and Damien (Daniel Franzese), Cady learns about the various cliques. She is warned to avoid the school's most exclusive clique, the Plastics,
the reigning trio of girls led by the queen bee Regina George (Rachel McAdams).
The Plastics take an interest in Cady, inviting her to sit with them at lunch and go shopping with them after school. Upon realizing that Cady has been accepted into the Plastics, Janis hatches a plan to get revenge on Regina, using Cady to infiltrate the Plastics.

wayne k
guamusa

Atrib: IMDB online movie database

haha

 

[Marlene]

Marlene,
This sounds close enough to an experience I fell victim to. Is that the story you are referring to? I thought I might refer to that in this thread, and then I read this, so I decided to ask.

yep that's the experience I was referring to. I don't remember all the details of it but it was why I removed my personal info

 

[HulkSmash]

Good Grief Fred, you seriously banned John?

 

[player]

Good Grief Fred, you seriously banned John?

Lots of sites will put in temporary bans... a week, 2 weeks, one month... and if the offender keeps it up then they get the permaban...


Can we do that here?