Just finished this sign today

[TimToad]

What do you think the director of a food pantry makes? Most people who work for non-profits make VERY little money. The average salary for a director of a food pantry (nationwide) is something like $50-60k. That's PEANUTS considering the amount of work that person is doing. They're often understaffed, overworked, and operating on little to no budget. On top of that, they're probably SWIMMING in student loan debt. Meanwhile, the director of operations for even a medium sized company can easily be making twice that, if not more. Some of the large, national non-profits pay their folks pretty well, because they're running incredibly large companies. But the CEO of a non-profit makes next to nothing in comparison to the CEO of private sector, for profit companies. We're talking the difference between $200,000 and MILLIONS of dollars for the exact same job.

Honestly, your statement is flat out offensive. I doubt you intended it to be, but it is. My mom worked for small to medium non-profits (and one of the largest in the world) almost her whole life. You have some serious misconceptions about how non-profits operate.

To stay a little more on topic, wall should have either been stripped or painted. The sign itself looks good, but against that wall it seriously detracts from the finished product. I think Tim is right. It would have been pretty easy to paint the section behind the wall, donate the remainder of the paint to the pantry so they can match it for the rest of the wall, and be done with it. Wouldn't have cost you too much money and you would have gotten a warm fuzzy feeling for doing something nice.

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Loaves_and_Fishes/Salary

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Loaves_and_Fishes/Salary

Oof. That's lower than the national average by a significant amount.

Even the hourly rates are low. The office manager makes almost as much as the director.

 

[signman315]

So I think we can all agree that at least to some degree the wall should have been painted. Who's responsibility, that is up to debate. But without all of us knowing the context between the customer and sign maker I think we are speaking a little out of turn. Every job I take on I try to point the customer to the most professional, durable, elegant, proper method but inevitably they try to knock you down to something cheaper and crappier, not always but often. So after I educate them then the ball's in their court. If they so choose to half ass it then it's my duty to either turn it down or do what they've asked. Nothing more, nothing less. So when a non-profit needs a sign they are going to make choices about which corners to cut, and that's their right. Maybe they will come back and paint it themselves after they get some donations in, maybe they won't. But I'm left with a little bit of a sour taste from this post, the sign maker did excellent work on a crap wall, perhaps there were some actions that next time would help such a situation (communication, communication, communication). So I ask do we post on Signs101 to get help and educate each other? Or to belittle and harass our fellow sign makers? Maybe use a little polite tact to explain your opinion and maybe the person who made the OP will actually gain something from your opinion? Shit talk closes ears. People generally respond better when you take a kinder tone, even if you disagree with them, and maybe they'll even learn something from you. It's kind of an over arching theme these days, spout your opinion aggressively without any desire for civil discourse or actually finding the roots of the issues. I think the sign industry has a lot to gain from networking with each other instead of shitting on each other every chance we get...

 

[equippaint]

You specifically said "what do they donate" implying they're just asking for handouts without making any sacrifices. Anyone who works for a non-profit is essentially donating their time, as they could work for almost any other organization and make more money. Second, they RARELY have employees beyond a few key positions. Most people working for small and medium sized non-profits are volunteers.

I'm not saying that there aren't outliers, but your anecdotal evidence doesn't mesh with the reality of pay rates for non-profit employees. It's pretty common knowledge that people working for non-profits make less money and it's easily verifiable.

I honestly don't care what you do with your free time or your money, but I do care that you're spreading misinformation about non-profits in general. Your broad suggestion that non-profits are filthy rich and laughing all the way to the bank is simply untrue. Are there some? Sure. Are they the standard? Far from it.

I did not spread misinformation, you just hear what you want to hear. I made 3 specific examples known personally to me. Just because you have an idea in your head does not make it true.
Cite your sources showing how they have bare minimum employees and that most are volunteers. Show me a factual correlation between pay rate and company profits in any industry both profit and non profit You wont find any. You're a 1 pony show every single time pay rates come up, its always and only about the dollar. Its never about purpose or self fulfilment in a job. If people did not want to work these jobs or didn't get some sort of benefit from it then they would simply go work wherever they could get the highest pay. That's economics 101. It's just not that simple though.
If youre getting paid to do a job, then you are not donating anything and if getting paid less than your earning capacity is charity, then my current title would be volunteer.

 

[Rick]

Here. Now you can at least use it in your portfolio.

If I saw this image, I would be giving it a huge thumbs up and a "good on ya"
And stated: "Excellent dimensional re-creation of an existing logo placed on a wall"

I have to retract that since the letters were not recreated correctly

My only hope is that the contractor who paints this wall, will take great care of that sign when either media blasting that wall, or using a high pressure washer and damage what I consider a nice replication. After that, they use caution when going around each replicated letter and graphic form.

I just completed a newly built, large apartment project... interior and exterior. They made a color change after the install, and sloshed paint on every wall sign... I wouldn't trust a painter as far as I could throw them... well, unless it was a skinny, tiny painter... but only because they couldn't reach the sign to get paint all over it...

 

[ams]

Wall painted, now I will never post another one of my job photos again.

 

[Rick]

Too bad, you can still learn something... like...

I just noticed, look at the "O,D, - especially the P, A and R" where it say "FOOD PANTRY" the router cut the outside of the letters fine, but the inside of the letter are not offset to take into account the bit width. I don't know what routing software you are using or of the letters did not compound, but you have to double check to make sure those pesky holes are rendered correctly...

ADDENDUM: It looks like it's possible the "OOD" is correct, and the outsides of "F" and "PANTRY" were rendered incorrectly because the typeface looks bolder than what's on the banner...

Either way, I would look at my cut file and see what happened.

 

[ams]

Too bad, you can still learn something... like...

I just noticed, look at the "O,D, - especially the P, A and R" where it say "FOOD PANTRY" the router cut the outside of the letters fine, but the inside of the letter are not offset to take into account the bit width. I don't know what routing software you are using or of the letters did not compound, but you have to double check to make sure those pesky holes are rendered correctly...

It's the angle you are viewing it from, that is me standing on the ground taking a photo up at it. It's accurate.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

ams, Rick is correct on this. The counters of the letters are in fact cut incorrectly. I saw it in your first photo and it can be seen in the last photo and the photo of the letters on the ground before installation. Just trying to help you out... do with it what you will.

 

[Rick]

It's the angle you are viewing it from, that is me standing on the ground taking a photo up at it. It's accurate.

And I would tend to agree with you except that when you zoom in...the distortion would be consistent, but here, the distortion is only there on letterforms with a hole in them. And that LOAVES AND FISHES are rendered fine.

Believe me, it's a common mistake. For a short while, I product trained people on the use of engravers and CNC machines. One of the main issues I came across was making sure the tool path offset was consistent...

ADDENDUM: It looks like it's possible the "OOD" is correct, and the outsides of "F" and "PANTRY" were rendered incorrectly because the typeface looks bolder than what's on the banner...

Either way, I would look at my cut file and see what happened.

 

[White Haus]

Too bad, you can still learn something... like...

I just noticed, look at the "O,D, - especially the P, A and R" where it say "FOOD PANTRY" the router cut the outside of the letters fine, but the inside of the letter are not offset to take into account the bit width. I don't know what routing software you are using or of the letters did not compound, but you have to double check to make sure those pesky holes are rendered correctly...

Amazing how many things you notice when you stare at something long enough...I definitely didn't see that at first.

At first glance in the OP all I noticed was a nice looking sign on a chitty backround. Go figure.

 

[sardocs]

It really does look a lot better with the wall touched up, but Rick is right about the centers of the letters. And as I mentioned the white-space between the Loaves & Leaves is excessive. Those two components would have nested really nice if the placement was more like the banner.

 

[ams]

I give up

 

[ams]

Rick's sole goal on this forum is to make me look like an idiot. The original line was 0.8" wide, That is too thin to use 1/4" thread alls and would be breakable, I increased it to 1.5" wide. All letters were thickened with an outline to fatten them up. Some strokes were thin. Having a 1/4" stud near say 1/4" from the edge of the acrylic makes it easily breakable.

Also the font is not the kind of font that is a perfect stroke. It's bolder on the left side and thinner on the right, it's more noticeable when it's thickened, so it's the font.

You throw out all these "You did it wrong, you don't know what your doing" without knowing the facts. You should have asked me "Why is it like this" instead of assuming I am an idiot.So you have no right to accuse me of anything without knowing the facts first. But will you own up to it and admit you were wrong? Hell no you won't.

 

[equippaint]

Lol, tough crowd. Did you CNC or do this by hand?

 

[ddarlak]

why then did you post this, so everyone can fawn over it?

take the lessons and get better, or eat your sour grapes and remain the same.

btw, there is no way that font is "supposed" to be that way, if it was, then add it to the list of another bad decision...

 

[SignosaurusRex]

why then did you post this, so everyone can fawn over it?

take the lessons and get better, or eat your sour grapes and remain the same.

btw, there is no way that font is "supposed" to be that way, if it was, then add it to the list of another bad decision...

Pretty tough to call Ariel an imperfectly formed font/typeface....

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Rick's sole goal on this forum is to make me look like an idiot. The original line was 0.8" wide, That is too thin to use 1/4" thread alls and would be breakable, I increased it to 1.5" wide. All letters were thickened with an outline to fatten them up. Some strokes were thin. Having a 1/4" stud near say 1/4" from the edge of the acrylic makes it easily breakable.

Also the font is not the kind of font that is a perfect stroke. It's bolder on the left side and thinner on the right, it's more noticeable when it's thickened, so it's the font.

You throw out all these "You did it wrong, you don't know what your doing" without knowing the facts. You should have asked me "Why is it like this" instead of assuming I am an idiot.So you have no right to accuse me of anything without knowing the facts first. But will you own up to it and admit you were wrong? Hell no you won't.

The font on the banner you copied had a consistent stroke all around it. Your letters clearly were "thickened" but the centers got cut too much. Your excuses are "It's the angle of the photo" or "The stroke is thicker on one side"

Just like the excuses you made for the background. "They couldn't paint the banner cause it was screwed into the wall"... "We didn't know what was behind the banner"

You do sloppy work and get upset when other people point out the flaws and try to help you get better. Block me if you may, I'll block you and raise the average IQ of the postings I see by 70 points.

 

[Rick]

Rick's sole goal on this forum is to make me look like an idiot. The original line was 0.8" wide, That is too thin to use 1/4" thread alls and would be breakable, I increased it to 1.5" wide. All letters were thickened with an outline to fatten them up. Some strokes were thin. Having a 1/4" stud near say 1/4" from the edge of the acrylic makes it easily breakable.

Also the font is not the kind of font that is a perfect stroke. It's bolder on the left side and thinner on the right, it's more noticeable when it's thickened, so it's the font.

You throw out all these "You did it wrong, you don't know what your doing" without knowing the facts. You should have asked me "Why is it like this" instead of assuming I am an idiot.So you have no right to accuse me of anything without knowing the facts first. But will you own up to it and admit you were wrong? Hell no you won't.

Well, I don't think you are an idiot...

I can only assume that you are overworked, understaffed, doing too much of the work.
See, If I had a full service sign shop with little or no help and I:

Got up ass up in the morning, and opened up the shop
Made contact with the client
Survey the property
Got the artwork
Looked up codes
Made/modified the artwork based on fabrication and installation methods
Send to client
Got approval from the client and/or building owner
Sent in for permit, get approval
Order materials
Look up information about better paint solutions
Buy new spray gun and learned to use it
Prep the CNC file
Cut the logo/letters
Layout and make the pen plot for installation
Paint Letters
Prep Artwork for print
Print and laminate
Apply to substrate
Drill and set pins
Prepare logo for install
Get in bucket truck and haul your ass to the job
Rip old banner off and decide if you should install
Install
Go back to the shop
Clean up
Go back to the site, get in the bucket and touch up paint
Back to the shop
Billing
All this while dealing with other projects, manage this project, reading trade journals, taking care of bids, bills, insurances, payment, reading emails, going through resumes and portfolios, interviewing applicants, signs101, and stuff at home...

See, idiots don't do that...
I've worked at shops where almost every task on that list had a specialized person doing the work.

Overworked and unsupported sign makers make mistakes. I see it all the time.

Never entered my mind to ask "Why is it like that?" Why may you ask? Because I trained many sign guys on how to do this, I know that typeface, I know the mistakes we all do. My experience tells me that something happened in the long process, and in a hurry, things happen. We all do it. I actually would like to be wrong so I can learn something... so:

I can say without a doubt that though I know the process of sign making, I do not know the intricacies of this particular sign, or the experience of the person manufacturing of the sign. And that though my experience tells me that something happened, I may have made assumptions and may possibly be incorrect in my viewpoint...

While I don't "know" all the facts, the fact that shows on the final product is that the lettering seems flawed and it's a common mistake.
I know guys where all they do all day, year in and year out is work the CNC... I did it for a long time and if I thats all I had to do, I'd go crazy.

It really is hard to know everything in this business, and mistakes will happen if you do it all. As simple as a CNC machine might seem be, if you don't double check before you cut, chit happens.

idiot? no, not by a long shot... stubborn? Well, welcome to the club...

 

[Rick]

Pretty tough to call Ariel an imperfectly formed font/typeface....

darn it, I thought it was Myriad