Question Just so I have this straight.........................

[Billct2]

Question - if somebody posts "hey I'm looking for X to be fabbed for me" and I fab X, can I reply "I can make that for you" if I'm not an MM? (I know I can reply, you know what I'm asking here)
Like Gino said there was a time that was frowned upon, usually referrals were acceptable even if they weren't MMs. But if I wanted to make a referral and wasn't clear if a MM was available I would and still do PM.

 

[d fleming]

I was a mod for some years on a popular screen printing forum but as the admin took less and less time with the site things progressively went down hill. It has denigrated into spam city and become a ghost town. Has been for sale for some time now with no offers. I see that happening here if nothing changes.

 

[Gino]

​

 

[Johnny Best]

Screen printing websites kind of went the way of Wooly Mammoths so I can see why it went into a ghost town.
As long as art software stays strong and people with no background can start a sign business with printers and no art talent, like a pizza franchise with a guy who can't cook, it should be good for awhile.
d fleming, you sound like Joe Btfsplk.

 

[AKwrapguy]

Screen printing websites kind of went the way of Wooly Mammoths so I can see why it went into a ghost town.
As long as art software stays strong and people with no background can start a sign business with printers and no art talent, like a pizza franchise with a guy who can't cook, it should be good for awhile.
d fleming, you sound like Joe Btfsplk.

You guys for the most part have been a wealth on knowledge and have assisted me on several occasions. I was dropped into this industry when by boss bought a printer and basically told me to learn how to use it. I had no real prior experience or any real idea of what I was doing. I learned the Thomas Edison way, I did't fail I just found out a bunch of way not to do something.
While I've not been on this site or in the business as long as many of you I can see what you saying about merchant members and whatnot, but as far as art work and design goes, I think that people have to start somewhere. As far as sub-par art, peoples art styles are fluid and change over time maybe one day they'll get better at it. I agree that the amount of people that are on here asking for help with what we perceive as simple or basic things them them their huge hurtles that they have to overcome does seem like it greatly increasing. I remember one post about someone being confused on if they should over laminate before of after cutting out the graphic.... another person had not idea what pre-mask was.

But I guess this is what you get when the cost of entry of so little these day.

 

[Gino]

No wonder you get screw ups, I did not read anything about you already getting the order and Fellers sending another one. You assumed I would understand how it went down. You needed to explain yourself better to everyone, I am not as smart as you are.

You guys for the most part have been a wealth on knowledge and have assisted me on several occasions. I was dropped into this industry when by boss bought a printer and basically told me to learn how to use it. I had no real prior experience or any real idea of what I was doing. I learned the Thomas Edison way, I did't fail I just found out a bunch of way not to do something.
While I've not been on this site or in the business as long as many of you I can see what you saying about merchant members and whatnot, but as far as art work and design goes, I think that people have to start somewhere. As far as sub-par art, peoples art styles are fluid and change over time maybe one day they'll get better at it. I agree that the amount of people that are on here asking for help with what we perceive as simple or basic things them them their huge hurtles that they have to overcome does seem like it greatly increasing. I remember one post about someone being confused on if they should over laminate before of after cutting out the graphic.... another person had not idea what pre-mask was.

But I guess this is what you get when the cost of entry of so little these day.

Well, ya sorta have it right, anyway for this old sign guy.

For me personally, I don't care how simple or dumb a question is, or how many times it's been asked, but how or why the person is asking it or what they do with that new found knowledge is what counts. If they come here, expecting answers, demanding they get answers and didn't put 2 seconds into finding the answer on their own, I say f*ck 'em. If they're too frickin' lazy to try on their own, I ain't gonna hand it over to them. If they actually need help and have tried a few things on their own and are totally lost, then yes, by all means help them. This gimme, gimme, gimme attitude sucks and it's getting old.

Again, this is an offshoot of the original post, but I wanted you to know.... we're here to help those who help themselves.

There are no dumb questions, just dumb answers.

 

[d fleming]

Screen printing websites kind of went the way of Wooly Mammoths so I can see why it went into a ghost town.
As long as art software stays strong and people with no background can start a sign business with printers and no art talent, like a pizza franchise with a guy who can't cook, it should be good for awhile.
d fleming, you sound like Joe Btfsplk.

Or possibly a wooly mammoth. Jury's out still, lol

 

[GAC05]

I thought "straight" was one of the trigger words we are no longer allowed to use on social media.
As for the list - yeah it has changed but everything changes - gotta roll with it.
My dream of being an underwear model faded long ago but the Depends gig is looking brighter every day.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[Billct2]

There are no dumb questions, just dumb answers.

I'm using that.....probably here

 

[Gino]

Go for it...........

 

[Fred Weiss]

In the 13 years I owned and managed Signs 101, there was an evolved set of permissions and moderation that kept most memberships and posts in line with site rules and objectives. I would call my way of running things proactive and the new owner's way reactive. A different way of stating it was that I ran it as my primary livelihood while the new owner runs it as one of his several business enterprises. At least it still runs and the new owners have resolved a number of problems that the community was facing.

Of the many things mentioned in this thread, the most important one was when members would ask for open bids for doing work instead of respecting our merchant member's contribution and shopping them first. And every time such a post was made, some seeing it would take it as normal and OK. This was a clear conflict between member's rights to post freely and our desire to steer those who wanted to sell here into becoming merchant members and/or advertisers. It was not something I ever found a solid solution for. I cannot and do not speak for the new owners, but I am at a loss to understand why merchant membership here has been so devalued.

I did moderate all new members to insure that they had some connection to professional signmaking or a related profession. It was very time consuming. And I read every post made to insure that spam and other unwanted posting was removed in a timely fashion. And I always decided any issue based on member rights and also delivering value to merchants and advertisers.

Stating this does not imply right or wrong in either approach. All that really matters is the health of the forum community ... which seems fine if still continuing to evolve.

And I can't help but add in a gripe of my own towards the OP of this thread:

Despite his claims, Gino was a paid merchant member for only a few months - not for several years. And to the best of my knowledge is not an MM now even though he implies that he is in his signature. He is an incredibly helpful and knowledgeable member when he chooses to be and, at times, has demonstrated genuine concern for the well being of Signs 101. He is also one who has a long history of offensive posts, confused thinking as to Signs 101, and of stirring the pot for the fun of it.

So one may want to consider the source when reading any of his posts.

 

[Johnny Best]

There is always a stench left in the room when Fred post something, either trying to sell his wares or his dime store philosophy on people and things.
You don't have to kiss his ass or be afraid of him anymore on Signs101.
He ran it like a Dickens' Fagin, and we were his boys.
Ding dong he's gone.

 

[Megagrafix]

the long time users has dropped off and I think it is because of all the printer questions which don't interest me either. I miss the design threads, real design threads that is. now it seems there are only "what font is this?" and "my printer no work, me thinks broken?" threads

That is racist. I hope you didn’t mean it that way. Some people just need help.....

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Happens...forums go downhill after the owner leaves. I sold a technology forum at it's height and after years eventually faded into nothingness. Now the URL redirects to another failed board with no posts in the last two years. I guess the person I sold it to didn't know how much work there was involved keeping the wolves at bay, class clowns in line, upgrades, server issues, bandwidth worries, broken website links, other various problems, dealing with moderators, news posters and other staff and the bickering between the both, advertising and the list goes on. It takes an ungodly amount of unpaid/underpaid time to keep forums running well.

This is Signs101 BTW, not Signs 207... If you don't want "101" type of beginner's questions, change the name of the site.

 

[TimToad]

In the 13 years I owned and managed Signs 101, there was an evolved set of permissions and moderation that kept most memberships and posts in line with site rules and objectives. I would call my way of running things proactive and the new owner's way reactive. A different way of stating it was that I ran it as my primary livelihood while the new owner runs it as one of his several business enterprises. At least it still runs and the new owners have resolved a number of problems that the community was facing.

Of the many things mentioned in this thread, the most important one was when members would ask for open bids for doing work instead of respecting our merchant member's contribution and shopping them first. And every time such a post was made, some seeing it would take it as normal and OK. This was a clear conflict between member's rights to post freely and our desire to steer those who wanted to sell here into becoming merchant members and/or advertisers. It was not something I ever found a solid solution for. I cannot and do not speak for the new owners, but I am at a loss to understand why merchant membership here has been so devalued.

I did moderate all new members to insure that they had some connection to professional signmaking or a related profession. It was very time consuming. And I read every post made to insure that spam and other unwanted posting was removed in a timely fashion. And I always decided any issue based on member rights and also delivering value to merchants and advertisers.

Stating this does not imply right or wrong in either approach. All that really matters is the health of the forum community ... which seems fine if still continuing to evolve.

And I can't help but add in a gripe of my own towards the OP of this thread:

Despite his claims, Gino was a paid merchant member for only a few months - not for several years. And to the best of my knowledge is not an MM now even though he implies that he is in his signature. He is an incredibly helpful and knowledgeable member when he chooses to be and, at times, has demonstrated genuine concern for the well being of Signs 101. He is also one who has a long history of offensive posts, confused thinking as to Signs 101, and of stirring the pot for the fun of it.

So one may want to consider the source when reading any of his posts.

You've touched on the primary reasons why I engage less and less here. The contradictory nature and usually hostile approach of the OP discourages me from participating and I make no bones about that. As the most frequent poster here with over 28,000 posts, his style of attacking others and condemnations of fellow craftspeople cannot be ignored as a possible cause of less interest.

Until I saw Fred make note of it, I was and am still very hesitant to even post this knowing the responses I expect from the OP. I've had my wife insulted by him, my business acumen discounted, and many other personal attacks way beyond the pale of a site designed to build and encourage camaraderie, problem solving and knowledge sharing. I catch myself weighing the risk and reward of offering advice or a solution on a topic or question simply in anxiety of the expectant bombs coming my way from him.

I'll give Gino his due for offering straight forward, practical advice on the many occasions he does so, but those are far outweighed by the high number of divisive, insulting, offensive attacks he engages in and makes no attempts to limit. No other poster starts as many provocative and table setting threads just so he can belittle and try to get under other poster's skin.

Calling out others lack of couth or tact, while in direct contradiction of said standards is a level of hypocrisy that many just can't ignore or be attracted to.

FWIW, there are dozens of other sign related message boards, social media groups, etc. that many of us here are also on and the tone, tenor and mutual respect that is demanded of people is quite a bit higher. Those are the venues I invest my time in.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

You've touched on the primary reasons why I engage less and less here. The contradictory nature and usually hostile approach of the OP discourages me from participating and I make no bones about that. As the most frequent poster here with over 28,000 posts, his style of attacking others and condemnations of fellow craftspeople cannot be ignored as a possible cause of less interest.

Until I saw Fred make note of it, I was and am still very hesitant to even post this knowing the responses I expect from the OP. I've had my wife insulted by him, my business acumen discounted, and many other personal attacks way beyond the pale of a site designed to build and encourage camaraderie, problem solving and knowledge sharing. I catch myself weighing the risk and reward of offering advice or a solution on a topic or question simply in anxiety of the expectant bombs coming my way from him.

I'll give Gino his due for offering straight forward, practical advice on the many occasions he does so, but those are far outweighed by the high number of divisive, insulting, offensive attacks he engages in and makes no attempts to limit. No other poster starts as many provocative and table setting threads just so he can belittle and try to get under other poster's skin.

Calling out others lack of couth or tact, while in direct contradiction of said standards is a level of hypocrisy that many just can't ignore or be attracted to.

FWIW, there are dozens of other sign related message boards, social media groups, etc. that many of us here are also on and the tone, tenor and mutual respect that is demanded of people is quite a bit higher. Those are the venues I invest my time in.

If the owner of the site wanted to takes steps to improve, removing Gino would be a step in that direction. Lack of getting rid of spammers plus a rouge obsessive poster = death of a forum.

 

[TimToad]

That is racist. I hope you didn’t mean it that way. Some people just need help.....

No, this is racist.... "Nope, it's like the old question...... How Long is a Chinaman."

But you didn't jump on that comment for some reason.

Marlene's comment revealed nothing but poor use of grammar, not anyone's race in a derogatory way. I hope you didn't mean to give the author of the actual racist comment a free pass while jumping on the other for some reason.

 

[Marlene]

That is racist. I hope you didn’t mean it that way. Some people just need help.....

not being racist, just point out how stupid people are with my "me think it no work" as most of the threads seem to written by those without a clue. if I am racist against stupid people, so be it

 

[Marlene]

No, this is racist.... "Nope, it's like the old question...... How Long is a Chinaman."

But you didn't jump on that comment for some reason.

Marlene's comment revealed nothing but poor use of grammar, not anyone's race in a derogatory way. I hope you didn't mean to give the author of the actual racist comment a free pass while jumping on the other for some reason.

the poor use of grammar was to point out how stupid most of the questions are. I am guilty of not liking stupid people

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I've noticed a similar trend.

I had been a MM on here for several years. If memory serves me correctly, for almost as long as I've been apart of this forum. I've noticed that MMs that had been MMs for as long (if not longer) then I have been are no longer so.

I'm not necessarily the best with change with regard to some things, I do try my best though. Some changes on here, I've liked, some not so much. While mentioning my concerns, they weren't either directly answered or answered in a way that helped eased my concerns of continuing my investment. I can understand to a degree as to that, due to I'm willing to bet that there are some on here that don't like changed regardless of good or bad and that creates a lot of "noise" to shift through. Although to be honest, if you have paying members (and the higher paying MM members) voice some concerns, I would think that it would be best to at least handle those concerns, but that's just me.

I get the feeling that the new ownership isn't along the lines of a "hands on" owner and that's fine as long as one can get people to help out and take that responsibility. It just seems like the owner wants what my dad would call "mailbox money". Just a regular dividend for the investment with minimal to no extraneous work on their end (they did do work, but at a certain point they want it to stop and that's it, just let things come on in). That's me speculating though, that may not be the case, just the filling that I get and a concern that I would have as a MM paying member.

As to regular users migrating off the forum, that could be natural migration just to something else or they may not be happy with how things turned out.

With regard to grammar, I do believe some effort should be put forth when trying to ask for help. I don't expect Pulitzer material, but some effort put forth for proper grammar usage. I've been guilty of the occasional homophone here and there, I think most of us can muddle through that. But just a simple attempt would be better. After all, if one doesn't put in the effort to present their question in the best manner, can one really expect to have the best responses forthcoming?