-
I want to thank all the members that have upgraded your accounts. I truly appreciate your support of the site monetarily. Supporting the site keeps this site up and running as a lot of work daily goes on behind the scenes. Click to Support Signs101 ...
Large signs
- Thread starter tominjax
- Start date
Replicator
New Member
Welcome tominjax,
Calm the f-censored-k down people, you've ripped this poor bastard enough haven't you ?
A lot of us started off here on the wrong foot, but please . . . Go easy on this guy, huh'?
Calm the f-censored-k down people, you've ripped this poor bastard enough haven't you ?
A lot of us started off here on the wrong foot, but please . . . Go easy on this guy, huh'?
miguelon.lizarraga
New Member
Amen!
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
so have you figured out how you are going to construct this sign?
as Marlene said there is value in this type of question for many ppl besides the OP who needs to come up with a solution for this specific project.
i would like to add that this type of post would be much easier for all involved if the OP would include all of the pertinent information about the project in the initial post (this isn't directed entirely at the OP of this thread but it is a common theme, that we get an initial post and we start to give solutions and then more details about the project come out that would make me prescribe a different production methodology). the size of the sign, materials, installation, etc etc.
as Marlene said there is value in this type of question for many ppl besides the OP who needs to come up with a solution for this specific project.
i would like to add that this type of post would be much easier for all involved if the OP would include all of the pertinent information about the project in the initial post (this isn't directed entirely at the OP of this thread but it is a common theme, that we get an initial post and we start to give solutions and then more details about the project come out that would make me prescribe a different production methodology). the size of the sign, materials, installation, etc etc.
Hi all~
I'm a newbie to this site, also, but an old veteran to the business. I am just reentering the sign business after several years away holding a "normal" job. I started out hand lettering before computers started to dominate the industry ('85?)- learned my lettering from an 80 y.o. Argentine sign painter who had been doing it all his life, and at Los Angeles Trade Tech. I worked my way up in the industry, working for some of the large companies such as Superior in Wilmington, Pacific Neon in Sacramento, and Ad Arts, in Fresno, CA., eventually running my own full service electrical sign company for several years.
I just wanted to let every one know where I was coming from before I added my 2 bits to this thread:
ANGLE IRON, and plenty of it, bolted into studs in the wall. The bolts holding the brackets to the sign go through the sign whenever possible, and everything about the installation should be considered during the design process. There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to installation. A hurricane should need to rip that wall off the building before that sign comes down.
If you pass on the angle iron and just bolt the sign to the wall, bolt into the studs.
I prefer angle iron mounts because it has a bit of play if the wall is not perfectly flat. Bolting straight to the wall forces the sign to conform to the shape of the wall, which can cause it to warp and/or crack over time. Also, a greater chance of water damage.
Find the studs in the wall first, then plan your mounting holes/brackets on the sign to match the placement of the studs. Very important step, especially if you have an anal retentive inspector that won't approve your installation because you drew your brackets 12" apart, but one of them is 3" off, or you had to relocate the sign 6" over, just so you could land on the supporting stud. If your location requires drawings from a certified engineer, find one that has experience with sign work and bring him your drawings with detailed measurements of the building and how you want to install it.
More questions to ponder~
How high up the wall is the sign going to be, and how are you getting it up there?
~~~~~~~~
Amazing all the typos and misspellings in these posts from people that make a living from words and lettering. It would probably make a very humorous thread for us to share some of the jobs we've screwed up by not proofreading our work properly.
Okay now, let the flaming begin ;>)
I'm a newbie to this site, also, but an old veteran to the business. I am just reentering the sign business after several years away holding a "normal" job. I started out hand lettering before computers started to dominate the industry ('85?)- learned my lettering from an 80 y.o. Argentine sign painter who had been doing it all his life, and at Los Angeles Trade Tech. I worked my way up in the industry, working for some of the large companies such as Superior in Wilmington, Pacific Neon in Sacramento, and Ad Arts, in Fresno, CA., eventually running my own full service electrical sign company for several years.
I just wanted to let every one know where I was coming from before I added my 2 bits to this thread:
ANGLE IRON, and plenty of it, bolted into studs in the wall. The bolts holding the brackets to the sign go through the sign whenever possible, and everything about the installation should be considered during the design process. There is no such thing as overkill when it comes to installation. A hurricane should need to rip that wall off the building before that sign comes down.
If you pass on the angle iron and just bolt the sign to the wall, bolt into the studs.
I prefer angle iron mounts because it has a bit of play if the wall is not perfectly flat. Bolting straight to the wall forces the sign to conform to the shape of the wall, which can cause it to warp and/or crack over time. Also, a greater chance of water damage.
Find the studs in the wall first, then plan your mounting holes/brackets on the sign to match the placement of the studs. Very important step, especially if you have an anal retentive inspector that won't approve your installation because you drew your brackets 12" apart, but one of them is 3" off, or you had to relocate the sign 6" over, just so you could land on the supporting stud. If your location requires drawings from a certified engineer, find one that has experience with sign work and bring him your drawings with detailed measurements of the building and how you want to install it.
More questions to ponder~
How high up the wall is the sign going to be, and how are you getting it up there?
~~~~~~~~
Amazing all the typos and misspellings in these posts from people that make a living from words and lettering. It would probably make a very humorous thread for us to share some of the jobs we've screwed up by not proofreading our work properly.
Okay now, let the flaming begin ;>)
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
i was really hoping tom would add to this post because i was contacted by him behind the scenes and given 'the rest of the story' in regards to this sign. like i have said before if all of the details are given initially we will all have a much easier time of providing good information my fear here from what i have read in this thread and the pm's i have received from the OP is that there is some project details that are not the same and i would hate for anyone to follow instructions for an installation that may not be in their best interest...specifically it is my understanding that this is actually a roof mounted sign NOT wall mounted as initially described and all of the information that has been give would suggest.
as i told the OP even though this is a customer installation and he is just providing the sign PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make certain that a permit has been obtained for a sign of this size mounted in this manner. Many municipalities will not issue permits any longer for roof mounted signs.
as i told the OP even though this is a customer installation and he is just providing the sign PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make certain that a permit has been obtained for a sign of this size mounted in this manner. Many municipalities will not issue permits any longer for roof mounted signs.
Sorry guys - I am still here...
I have informed the client about what is required regarding permits, mounting etc... He wants to save money and just have me make the sign. We are now in value engineering mode to get price down so I am waiting on answers from him...
It looks like the sign will be 5 X 10 aprox now, with made from MDO with overlays / cutouts glued on and a painted background...BUT I am waiting..
The 'typo' in the name wasnt that...they were thinkin about doing it as such but have since went to correct spelling of cantina if this is what you are reffering....
I have informed the client about what is required regarding permits, mounting etc... He wants to save money and just have me make the sign. We are now in value engineering mode to get price down so I am waiting on answers from him...
It looks like the sign will be 5 X 10 aprox now, with made from MDO with overlays / cutouts glued on and a painted background...BUT I am waiting..
The 'typo' in the name wasnt that...they were thinkin about doing it as such but have since went to correct spelling of cantina if this is what you are reffering....
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
good deal. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make sure you see the permit with your own eyes (since the client is installing) I have seen too many ppl go through the same ordeal where a client orders a sign and then they won't pay for it or won't pay the balance due on it because they can not get a permit.
you may even need to get an engineer to stamp his approval on the schematics because it is roof mounted .. just depends on the requirements of your municipality.
there are just a few details of this project that have my internal 'alarms' sounding off.
you may even need to get an engineer to stamp his approval on the schematics because it is roof mounted .. just depends on the requirements of your municipality.
there are just a few details of this project that have my internal 'alarms' sounding off.
Patrick46
New Member
I think its great that you're going to be the sign supplier now, and not the installer.
All you gotta do is drop it off, and pick up the check. Hanging a big sign WITHOUT a contractors lisence can mean death to a new shop should a problem arise.
Sorry if I sounded so harsh on my first reply... (frikken internet cannot display how my intentions were 'supposed' to sound, and can very easily get misinterpreted.)...but there were too many holes in the OP to generate a reasonable solution for you.
You'll find, & if you've been in business already you should know this, that some people will call you and just flat out ask..."how much for a sign"?? They give you NOTHING to go on at all. Not their name, how big, or what & where this sign is supposed to be used.
Once you get enough of these questions, you may tend to get alittle 'short' with the answers you give these people.......(at least I do).
let's see a progress pic when you get the chance!
All you gotta do is drop it off, and pick up the check. Hanging a big sign WITHOUT a contractors lisence can mean death to a new shop should a problem arise.
Sorry if I sounded so harsh on my first reply... (frikken internet cannot display how my intentions were 'supposed' to sound, and can very easily get misinterpreted.)...but there were too many holes in the OP to generate a reasonable solution for you.
You'll find, & if you've been in business already you should know this, that some people will call you and just flat out ask..."how much for a sign"?? They give you NOTHING to go on at all. Not their name, how big, or what & where this sign is supposed to be used.
Once you get enough of these questions, you may tend to get alittle 'short' with the answers you give these people.......(at least I do).
let's see a progress pic when you get the chance!
UPDATE
Well the budget is out the window ! I have given the guy a new price based on a smaller sign...no install, and as cheap as i can make the thing and still give him a 'dimensional' sign but as you experienced sign people have pointed out to me I AM concerned about the sign size and have again told the guy my (and your) concerns. The whole thing is burning me out ! I know I hear you guys laughing a lil and saying, "Welcome to the sign business friend" Ha Ha !
I'll keep you posted..... and when I proceed Ill take plenty of pics so everyone can rip me some more :Big Laugh
Tom
Well the budget is out the window ! I have given the guy a new price based on a smaller sign...no install, and as cheap as i can make the thing and still give him a 'dimensional' sign but as you experienced sign people have pointed out to me I AM concerned about the sign size and have again told the guy my (and your) concerns. The whole thing is burning me out ! I know I hear you guys laughing a lil and saying, "Welcome to the sign business friend" Ha Ha !
I'll keep you posted..... and when I proceed Ill take plenty of pics so everyone can rip me some more :Big Laugh
Tom
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
Tom not sure if this was in public or the pm but it isn't letting out any private info so i dont feel like i am betraying confidence...when clients tell us cost isnt a factor...it is. when a client says they will get the permit..they probably won't. if they tell you they have 2,000 locations for you to provide signs for and to price it as such...they don't, they're bs'in in hopes of a discount.
lol welcome to the sign business, isn't it glamorous easy money?
lol welcome to the sign business, isn't it glamorous easy money?
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Like Dan said... welcome to the Wonderful World of Signs.
However, maybe you should reconsider and analyze if you really want to do this or not. If this little episode here burned you out.... you might not be capable of any business for yourself. There wasn't anything hard about your project... other than you had no idea of what you were doing. Perhaps, working in a real sign shop for a while would be your best bet.
However, maybe you should reconsider and analyze if you really want to do this or not. If this little episode here burned you out.... you might not be capable of any business for yourself. There wasn't anything hard about your project... other than you had no idea of what you were doing. Perhaps, working in a real sign shop for a while would be your best bet.
Im not burnt out on signs at all ! I meant the client burnt me out... he talked like he was ready to make a sign last week, but now that he got hit with the pricing...everything went into SLOW motion....
I have been here a bunch of times in other businesses....I am a firm believer that you don't count on the job until the check clears the bank...
As far as the guy that says, "I have 500 stores"... I have been there too- the business I was in was FULL of those types....
Thanks people...
Mosh - thanks for the reinforcement suggestion...
I have been here a bunch of times in other businesses....I am a firm believer that you don't count on the job until the check clears the bank...
As far as the guy that says, "I have 500 stores"... I have been there too- the business I was in was FULL of those types....
Thanks people...
Mosh - thanks for the reinforcement suggestion...
Patrick46
New Member
it's been brought up about the customer that sais he has 200 stores, and is looking for a volume discount, or the guy that sais "if you give me a good deal now (cheap), then I'll bring in a bunch of more work for you. (for even cheaper)
I've learned (the HARD way), to tell them that the MORE work that they bring in, the cheaper it'll get (to a limited degree). My favorite local customer has what I call the 'Golden Key' to my shop, because he's brought in so much work throughout the years, that I've reduced what I charge him, and I'll get his trucks in here within a few days of him calling me. If this is your first time in here, then you get to stand in line...(I hope it ain't too long for ya)
I've gotten burned a few times, and have now gotten to where I've purposely burned a few bridges with a few of my customers. Bad for business you say?? Better for my sleep at night I say.
I had one customer in particular that I finally told to take a hike. (overly demanding of what I did & how I charged him). After 3 months...guess what...he's back! Seems he couldn't find any other shops to do his work for him! I now charge him MORE, he has stopped complaining and is, in fact, now quite complementary, and I sleep a WHOLE LOT BETTER!!!
a (very well known motorcycle club) has a motto that I love...
treat us right, and we'll treat you better...
but treat us wrong....and we'll treat you worse!!!
Don't you love it when people think that self-employed people have 'got it made'???
I've learned (the HARD way), to tell them that the MORE work that they bring in, the cheaper it'll get (to a limited degree). My favorite local customer has what I call the 'Golden Key' to my shop, because he's brought in so much work throughout the years, that I've reduced what I charge him, and I'll get his trucks in here within a few days of him calling me. If this is your first time in here, then you get to stand in line...(I hope it ain't too long for ya)
I've gotten burned a few times, and have now gotten to where I've purposely burned a few bridges with a few of my customers. Bad for business you say?? Better for my sleep at night I say.
I had one customer in particular that I finally told to take a hike. (overly demanding of what I did & how I charged him). After 3 months...guess what...he's back! Seems he couldn't find any other shops to do his work for him! I now charge him MORE, he has stopped complaining and is, in fact, now quite complementary, and I sleep a WHOLE LOT BETTER!!!
a (very well known motorcycle club) has a motto that I love...
treat us right, and we'll treat you better...
but treat us wrong....and we'll treat you worse!!!
Don't you love it when people think that self-employed people have 'got it made'???
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
Patrick there is nothing wrong with firing a customer and i've fired more than a couple over the years.
as far as quantity discounts go, if a client tells you they have a fleet of 20 vehicles for you to letter and what kind of discount will you give them, instead of working up a discount price tell them something along the lines that they pay full price for each vehicle and you will letter the last one for free (or something to that effect, however the #'s $'s work out for you).
as far as quantity discounts go, if a client tells you they have a fleet of 20 vehicles for you to letter and what kind of discount will you give them, instead of working up a discount price tell them something along the lines that they pay full price for each vehicle and you will letter the last one for free (or something to that effect, however the #'s $'s work out for you).
Gino
Premium Subscriber
I just brought a truck in this morning after a call around 9:30 am to get a truck done quickly. This is a good customer of ours and has been for over 25 years. The owner and I go back a long time. He has no problem paying higher wages to me for this service. He knows the truck will only be out of service for a few hours and his workers are back in business. His truck will be finished by 3pm this afternoon. His cost will be around $550 and I'll get the check probably Monday or Tuesday. It's sometimes all about service and not price.
This guy left me about 12 or so years ago for maybe six months and like yours... he was right back and we've never been tighter.
I have a guy coming in next week where we've lettered two of his trucks already. We got about $775 per truck so far. He asked me if the price has gone up and I told him, Nope. He never asked for a lower price because he trusts us. We've done two trucks, a dozen site signs with metal stands, about 4 dozen T-shirts and he's one happy guy.
You don't always have to offer up discounts. If they ask, like Dan said... tell them you'll take it on the last two or do the last one for free.... or just tell them as they keep doing business with you... you will gradually make each truck a little less costly within a certain time frame. I'm not going to give a guy a discount if he brings his fleet in over the next three years.
This guy left me about 12 or so years ago for maybe six months and like yours... he was right back and we've never been tighter.
I have a guy coming in next week where we've lettered two of his trucks already. We got about $775 per truck so far. He asked me if the price has gone up and I told him, Nope. He never asked for a lower price because he trusts us. We've done two trucks, a dozen site signs with metal stands, about 4 dozen T-shirts and he's one happy guy.
You don't always have to offer up discounts. If they ask, like Dan said... tell them you'll take it on the last two or do the last one for free.... or just tell them as they keep doing business with you... you will gradually make each truck a little less costly within a certain time frame. I'm not going to give a guy a discount if he brings his fleet in over the next three years.
Tominjax,
Don't listen to these idiots who just give smartass responses. These guys are so butthurt that someone else besides them are trying to get into the sign business. They act like their s#%t don't stink and theyre so above a "newbie".
Thats why I've stayed away from this site, too many idiot answers and not enough straight help. Oh, I'm sorry Gino, did Tominjax question waste your valuable time? Instead of retorting with a stupid, assnine answer, couldn't you just maybe give a straight answer?!?! Of course not, that would help.
It's always a big d#@k contest on here, and while the sign business is dying slowly every day, it would be nice to stop treating newbies like they are trash. When your business fails, we all will laugh...
Don't listen to these idiots who just give smartass responses. These guys are so butthurt that someone else besides them are trying to get into the sign business. They act like their s#%t don't stink and theyre so above a "newbie".
Thats why I've stayed away from this site, too many idiot answers and not enough straight help. Oh, I'm sorry Gino, did Tominjax question waste your valuable time? Instead of retorting with a stupid, assnine answer, couldn't you just maybe give a straight answer?!?! Of course not, that would help.
It's always a big d#@k contest on here, and while the sign business is dying slowly every day, it would be nice to stop treating newbies like they are trash. When your business fails, we all will laugh...
J Hill Designs
New Member
<yawn>