bob
It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Could be, in which case it would be an amphiboly. Yet another fallacy.
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Legal advice, somebody ripped off my design.
- Thread starter StopSignGraphics
- Start date
Could be, in which case it would be an amphiboly. Yet another fallacy.
GypsyGraphics
New Member
grrrrrr.... i hate when the OP doesn't come back to their own thread!
This has been a pretty active thread and ya got some great info here.
If you post a question or ask for advice, even if you chose not to respond to questions, when asked for more details, i think a "thanks" is in order, to those who took time to share their opinions, knowledge or experiences.
I've found this thread interesting and informative so....
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Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
well here's what a real attorney has to say on the matter, he is very familiar with our industry and the challenges we face on a regular basis..here's a copy of his email to me after reading this thread.
He is not limited to federal court because he is not just looking at the
copywrite issue. He was asked to perform work and did the work and then
they did not pay. He needs to send them a bill for the work and then
take them to court probably in small claims for the amount of money that
he should be compensated for breach of contract, work and labor done and
what ever else his State will allow him to claim. His matter goes much
beyond the copywrite law and is therefore easy to pursue. Next time he
should get a simple contract up front before he starts work though.
He is not limited to federal court because he is not just looking at the
copywrite issue. He was asked to perform work and did the work and then
they did not pay. He needs to send them a bill for the work and then
take them to court probably in small claims for the amount of money that
he should be compensated for breach of contract, work and labor done and
what ever else his State will allow him to claim. His matter goes much
beyond the copywrite law and is therefore easy to pursue. Next time he
should get a simple contract up front before he starts work though.
G-Artist
New Member
I have to agree with the data Dan posted...with a caveat.
It could be all that and then some. It is case-specific in that who said and did what and was there a meeting of the minds, etc. In other words was there a contract real or implied?
Then we have Dowling.
See:http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=473&invol=207
I agree in part and dissent in part. I'd go with the lower courts rulings as that is justice, IMHO. But I don't sit on the SCOTUS bench, sigh. I previously mentioned in this thread "theft by conversion" and in Dowling, that theory was shot down. That is where I dissent from the SCOTUS ruling. If they allowed it to stand folks in our industry would be better served by state and federal statutes.
Using the law of contract, Dan's advice could well settle the matter and avoid many costs. At the same time, it may well end up as an IP case. I say that after re-reading the original post a few times.
I talked about things being fact-specific. Here's an example. Under the Statute of Frauds and per the Uniform Commercial Code, any contracts for the sale of goods where the price equals $500.00 or more MUST be in a writing. However, we in the custom graphics industry are generally exempt because custom-made items designed for one specific buyer is one of the several exemptions to that law. So when a customer tries to renege because no contract was signed for their $3,000 custom-made channel letter sign we say "forget about it" as that won't fly or you just printed 5000 campaign signs saying "ELECT WHOIS SHERIFF" neither of which could possibly be used by any other client. At the same time a CNC guy supplying 'custom' non-decorated routed blanks may not be as lucky for not having a written contract as the product "may" have another market where the blanks can be disposed of. Everything is fact-specific.
It could be all that and then some. It is case-specific in that who said and did what and was there a meeting of the minds, etc. In other words was there a contract real or implied?
Then we have Dowling.
See:http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=473&invol=207
I agree in part and dissent in part. I'd go with the lower courts rulings as that is justice, IMHO. But I don't sit on the SCOTUS bench, sigh. I previously mentioned in this thread "theft by conversion" and in Dowling, that theory was shot down. That is where I dissent from the SCOTUS ruling. If they allowed it to stand folks in our industry would be better served by state and federal statutes.
Using the law of contract, Dan's advice could well settle the matter and avoid many costs. At the same time, it may well end up as an IP case. I say that after re-reading the original post a few times.
I talked about things being fact-specific. Here's an example. Under the Statute of Frauds and per the Uniform Commercial Code, any contracts for the sale of goods where the price equals $500.00 or more MUST be in a writing. However, we in the custom graphics industry are generally exempt because custom-made items designed for one specific buyer is one of the several exemptions to that law. So when a customer tries to renege because no contract was signed for their $3,000 custom-made channel letter sign we say "forget about it" as that won't fly or you just printed 5000 campaign signs saying "ELECT WHOIS SHERIFF" neither of which could possibly be used by any other client. At the same time a CNC guy supplying 'custom' non-decorated routed blanks may not be as lucky for not having a written contract as the product "may" have another market where the blanks can be disposed of. Everything is fact-specific.
Dice
New Member
Ok 2 things.
1) This is not copyright it's theft of services. Take it to local small claims as such. Is it worth your time? You'll have to decide that. Maybe use it as a learning experience because it will happen to you again if you let artwork leave with out payment.
2) To sue someone for copyright you have to register the artwork and it takes 6 months to get it registered. You can sue in state or federal court. Then you might have a case that last 6 months if your lucky, could be 2 years.
1) This is not copyright it's theft of services. Take it to local small claims as such. Is it worth your time? You'll have to decide that. Maybe use it as a learning experience because it will happen to you again if you let artwork leave with out payment.
2) To sue someone for copyright you have to register the artwork and it takes 6 months to get it registered. You can sue in state or federal court. Then you might have a case that last 6 months if your lucky, could be 2 years.
GAC05
Quit buggin' me
This sounds like a good idea.
If it fails, show up the next Sunday, sit in the back row near the door and when the collection plate comes around - grab it and head for the exit....
wayne k
guam usa
iSign
New Member
hell, in that scenario, just take their van too...
you could just say your art on the side confused you..
oh, and to the guy 100 posts ago who said layout is not the same as artwork, and neither of them are the same as design... well, they do have different letters in 'em.. and on any different day, speaking to enough people... they do get switched around... but to imply this industry has ONE distinct, non-overlapping definition for each of them... and you happen to know what that is... preposterous!
binki
New Member
Thats a good one.
signmeup
New Member
I had this happen to me but they never used the art. They just didn't pay me. Not a copyright issue then is it? Simply, they owe me for services rendered. My remedy is small claims court which would cost me $80 to file my case. Not worth it to me in this case because it was only $250.
I'll just wait until they least suspect it................
I'll just wait until they least suspect it................
binki
New Member
The beauty of small claims court is once you win and they don't pay you file for a statement of assets and when they don't comply the judge issues a warrant for arrest for contempt of court.
Sometimes it is the little things that satisfy.
Whit
New Member
Neither here nor there,,, but a few years back,, lady comes in,,,
wants a "Jesus" sweatshirt,,, 1 of a kind,, airbrush,,, after informed
it would run in the $100 catagory,, says fine,,, picked it up the next day,,
wore it to church gig,, impressed the troops,, music director says,,, "Hey",,
can I borrow that for a day,, she says "Cool",,, in a couple of weeks he's selling
sweats for $20,,, T's for $15,,, exact replicas,,, she comes beating on my door,,
seems I ripped her off for the $100 when she could've gotten the same from the
music director for $20,,, took some explaining that was'nt me,, but the music
director that ripped her off,,, it was HER design that SHE had paid for,,, not real
sure how it ever worked out,, anyway,, shows how some folks think out there !!!
wants a "Jesus" sweatshirt,,, 1 of a kind,, airbrush,,, after informed
it would run in the $100 catagory,, says fine,,, picked it up the next day,,
wore it to church gig,, impressed the troops,, music director says,,, "Hey",,
can I borrow that for a day,, she says "Cool",,, in a couple of weeks he's selling
sweats for $20,,, T's for $15,,, exact replicas,,, she comes beating on my door,,
seems I ripped her off for the $100 when she could've gotten the same from the
music director for $20,,, took some explaining that was'nt me,, but the music
director that ripped her off,,, it was HER design that SHE had paid for,,, not real
sure how it ever worked out,, anyway,, shows how some folks think out there !!!
Graphics2u
New Member
Must be a lot different where you live. Ain't nobody getting arrested around here for small claims case. In fact I had a lawyer tell me that all small claims does is gives you one more person (the Judge) tell you " yep, you're right, they owe you money"! You might be able to garnish wages if they have any income, but no guaruntees. It's still totally up to you to do the collecting, just went through this on a $3200 judgement.
royster13
New Member
In my area, once you get a judgment you can seize a bank account.....However, if there is not enough money in there, you have to file more paperwork and pay another fee to go back again.....Unless you go back to court (another fee) you can not add any additional fees to your judgment....As a former claims adjuster I saw many judgments that were near impossible to collect....Folks would be overdrawn in their bank account and deposit enough to get a few dollars to the good...The bank would send 5.00 or 10.00 and then the garnishee had to be refiled....
G-Artist
New Member
Rather than argue over mis-informed posts regarding Small Claims Court (a.k.a People's Court)
let me say that there are some decent and inexpensive manuals that cover that. Nolo Press
publishing comes to mind and they should be perused prior to filing.
Winning is 10% of the battle. Collecting is the other 90%. Be it SC or Circuit Court. So much
so there is a specialized area of the law many lawyers are taking up...it's called COLLECTIONS.
There are a myriad ways of collecting a judgment but one solid one is filing your judgment
with the Clerk of Court. The judgment debtor cannot buy or sell real estate and probably cannot
transfer or acquire title to a motor vehicle (cars, trucks, boats, aircraft) without satisfying
the judgment in most if not all states that regulate titles. Plus filing your judgment entitles
you to collect statutory interest as well. Each state has its own laws and regulations so
that is only general advice.
let me say that there are some decent and inexpensive manuals that cover that. Nolo Press
publishing comes to mind and they should be perused prior to filing.
Winning is 10% of the battle. Collecting is the other 90%. Be it SC or Circuit Court. So much
so there is a specialized area of the law many lawyers are taking up...it's called COLLECTIONS.
There are a myriad ways of collecting a judgment but one solid one is filing your judgment
with the Clerk of Court. The judgment debtor cannot buy or sell real estate and probably cannot
transfer or acquire title to a motor vehicle (cars, trucks, boats, aircraft) without satisfying
the judgment in most if not all states that regulate titles. Plus filing your judgment entitles
you to collect statutory interest as well. Each state has its own laws and regulations so
that is only general advice.
binki
New Member
I am in the PRC (Peoples Republic of California)
Filing a Statement of Assets is another court date to determine assets of the looser that the court will then order confiscated and sold to satisfy the judgement.
G-Artist said:
I used this against a Door Manufacturer when my new door cracked after a few months. I got paid.
G-Artist
New Member
binki, you make it sound so simple. And it can be if all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. Small Claims Court, while liberal when it comes to the applying the rules and the latitude extended, the state and its Courts and the Bar have do have Rules of Procedure that have to be adhered to. Deviate from them and you either get the case tossed or have to start from scratch.
Reading a manual about collecting a judgement can help the unititiated. You can do an interrogatory about assets via mail or in person. But if it is a DIY case, don't screw up is all I am saying.
And to all the folks who may have a case where the judgment is against them, read those manuals as well.
Reading a manual about collecting a judgement can help the unititiated. You can do an interrogatory about assets via mail or in person. But if it is a DIY case, don't screw up is all I am saying.
And to all the folks who may have a case where the judgment is against them, read those manuals as well.