Lighted sign project

[phototec]

This might help:
http://www.millikendistribution.com...awning_sign_kit_stapling_reference_manual.pdf

wayne k
guam usa

It's just like stretching a canvas. Take all the old staples out. Start on one side and start putting staples back in. After you get past the first side you'll need one person to stretch and hold the material while another staples. Really not that hard.

We used rivets instead of staples, but same principle. We also use sheet metal pliers like these to help hold the flex in place until it is secured.

Wayne, thanks for the link, very informative, not exactly like my frame, which has the staple channel on opposite side of the face, but I see all those special clamps used to hold the flex face material. I have to do some research before I tackle this, may have to get a dozen of these clamps.

signcrafters london, thanks for your help also, I understand how you staple a stretched canvas, however this material has to be stapled down into a deep grove (channel) while you are trying to stretch the material at the same time. If I pull the material with the sheet metal pliers across the top of the channel, not sure I will be able to get the nose of the staple gun to push the stretched material down into the channel (see photos).

 

[Mosh]

Call a local sign shop!!! All I can tell you!!!

 

[MikePro]

ingenuity... its what makes sign guys great.
who says you HAVE to staple down into the channel? hell, if I had the sign in front of me and had to find a way to stretch the canvas... i'd just make some 1/2" x 1/8' "clips" out of scrap aluminum and use a pliers/vicegrips to stretch a section as I pop a rivot and repeat on the opposite side of the frame until its done.
(1/2" being pressed on the flat spot, and the 1/8" as a tucking mechanism into the channel.)

hell, i bet you could get away with stretching over the existing frame, securing with double-sided tape and then reinforcing with rivots/washers.
eeezy-peezy

 

[phototec]

ingenuity... its what makes sign guys great.
who says you HAVE to staple down into the channel? hell, if I had the sign in front of me and had to find a way to stretch the canvas... i'd just make some 1/2" x 1/8' "clips" out of scrap aluminum and use a pliers/vicegrips to stretch a section as I pop a rivot and repeat on the opposite side of the frame until its done.
(1/2" being pressed on the flat spot, and the 1/8" as a tucking mechanism into the channel.)

hell, i bet you could get away with stretching over the existing frame, securing with double-sided tape and then reinforcing with rivots/washers.
eeezy-peezy

MikePro, I like how you think, I'm still doing a little research, but I may very well do a "MacGyver" on this sign, hell, in Vietnam, we fixed everything with commo wire and duct tape!

 

[andy]

Air powered nail guns aren't expensive... Spotnail make a nice narrow head gun which costs around £80.. it'll fit right down into your channel with ease and allow you to machine gun really tight staples right around all four sides of your flex face.

What you need to do is leave your new face oversize so you've got a big handful of fabric to pull on whilst you're stapling. Once you've got the fabric on nice & tight you simply go back with a Stanley knife & cut off the excess. I've done a few stapled flexface signs and this is the method I always used.

Start at the top.. get someone on each end of the fabric (the short vertical sides) and pull tight. Staple right along the top edge so it's on firmly. Pull the bottom down real tight with your helpers pulling on the ends again and start banging in staples. You should be left with a tight face with no wrinkles apart from the two open vertical ends.. these can be pulled into place by one person & stapled at the same time. Pull the material in the middle of the vertical side directly towards you and staple firmly. Then work up from the middle pulling the fabric in a slight diagonal direction... this will help you "work" any remaining wrinkles up into the corner of the flex panel. Repeat the same process for the bottom edge.

It's important that you use a decent air nailer with enough PSI to punch the staples in quickly and with considerable force; a hand stapler won't do the trick, trust me.

 

[FS-Keith]

I think the other guys have helped you with ideas for installing, my advise is if you didnt already know that is a sign from the latest bmw/VW sign package. So you could always track down who made it and see if you can find the install specs... But that changour is simple enough to do with a little thinking and tools. i would cut some small pieces of alum and sanwichthe fabric between it and the frame and forfet about that channel

 

[Wes Phifer]

The staple in deal is the quickest way to do it. It does help to have plenty of those clamps though. I bought a Milliken kit and it is super easy and fast.

 

[Techman]

call your local awning sign shop. They have the tools and the practice to get it right. It has to be tight. And the staples have to be right too.

 

[larrysignman]

old school

bummer!!

GAC05 seems to have given some helpful link, so I'll just wish you the best & hope to see another new tire sign being shown off later this week.
Good Luck!

we use to use a canvas stretching tool, can get at hobby lobby or micheals

then stretch like a canvas, and apply self tapping screws, the ones for roofing with the rubber washers, use spring clamps initially, then the canvas stretcher to pull as you put on your screws

this is old school, sort of like the staples

the tension systems are great, but require the proper tool(s) & sometimes a whole new frame

 

[phototec]

I had a real challenge working my first flex face sign, this lighted sign had a 3M PanaFlex face stapled into a channel in the Aluminum frame. The channel groove was about 1/4" wide and 3/8" deep.

I had several challenges, fist being I was not able to locate the 3M PanaFlex sold by the foot, so I opted to use the 20oz Cooley, I purchased 3' of 10'-6" wide material, just enough to do this job.

Next was the challenge was to pre-install the graphics on the Cooley or wait till after the face was installed to allow for better placement and alignment, I opted to go with the second.

I had to figure out how to staple the Cooley down into the channel, thanks to "wayne k's" lead on Signs 101, I downloaded the Milliken Matched Component Staple System, and it showed the use of special clamps. I recognized them as being welding clamps and remembered seeing them at Harbor Freight, I needed about 6 clamps at least to force the Cooley down int the channel before stapling. I purchased the welding claps at HF, and they did the job, however I had to modify the bottom of the clamps because the small convex dimples would mess up the front of the flex face.

Next, I tried all my current 18ga stalpers, had both a Paslode and a Craftsman, neither nose would fit down into the channel, so I purchased a cheapo 18ga stapler at HF, knowing I would have to modify the nose section just for this application. I removed the safety-trip device from the nose and then it would fit down into the channel. I would have to pull up on the safety latch under the trigger each time I fired a staple, it worked.

Without the safety-trip device, I had no way to adjust the depth of the staple, in testing I found the staple was penetrating the Cooley material (bad), so I had too figure out some way to keep the staples from penetrating the Cooley. I had a roll of 1/4" clear vinyl tubing that was just long enough to go around the perimeter of the aluminum frame. I made a few tests, and it worked, the the clear tubing offered just enough resistance and protection, and the staples didn't penetrate the Cooley material.

I noticed that the old 3M PanaFlex material was stretched across the long way first (maybe has more give), then the short sides were fastened. So, that's what I did, first stapling one end stapling the clear tubing in the channel, then on to the other end. I used two flat welding clamps on the Cooley fabric, and used long adjustable clamps from the mid support to pull tension on the fabric. I didn't have any other way to pull tension prior to stapling.

Now that the flex face material is installed onto the aluminum frame, I get to figure out a way to block-up, support under the face so I have a hard surface to install the graphics. At least this way I can control the placement and position of the finished graphics on the sign.

I hope all this can help someone in the future.

Thanks to all here at Signs 101 for your HELP, I could have never got this far without suggestions!!!



To be continued.

 

[ionsigns]

Semantics: Lighted sign? Lighted from interior or exterior. Illuminated sign?
Hmmm.

OPINIONS PLEASE: Which of these descriptions is the most accurate and sophisticated?

Interior Lit. Exterior Lit. Illuminated Sign (does not specify lights inside a box with translucent faces!?) Lit sign. Unlit sign.

Exterior illuminated. Interior Illuminated.

IMHO: A sign that is opaque with lights outside is an EXTERIOR LIT sign.
A sign with translucent faces or channel (neon or LED) is Illuminated or Interior lit.

Lighted sign to me is somehow not the most optimum description.

Exterior illuminated. Interior Illuminated. Two ways to be sophisticated and equally descriptive.

 

[Malkin]

We usually use the terms BACK-LIT, FRONT-LIT, or NON-LIT.

Also, nice going! I'll be referencing this thread the first time I am asked to tackle such a thing. (99% of signs around here seem to be lex faces, even some big 8x12's around town)