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Massive stencil needed, 25'x150' for roof top graphic

Discussion in 'Hand Made Signs' started by sinclairgraphics1, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. sinclairgraphics1

    sinclairgraphics1 Sinclair Graphics & Installations

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    We are bidding on a project that will display a client's logo and website, all one color,(black) on a huge flat roof of a brand new building. They client is near the airport so they are proposing this to be approximately 25' tall x 150' wide. It scales pretty close to that. The text alone is over 10' tall. We are bidding on just making the stencil, the roofing contractor is doing the painting as they have a special paint made just for that particular roof substrate. Totally fine by me. Now to the big question, how do we go about applying/making the stencil? I had thought about make it reverse cut out of removable vinyl but it would be a major pain with so much area removed from the vinyl to lay that flat and install it. Also, though about having stencils made out of .020 styrene panels. Or, having a good artist go up there and lay it all out and tape it off. The painters want it ready to go, and just have them roll the paint on. Suggestions and ideas for this? The pricing is difficult on this as well but I'm thinking at least 10k.
     
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  2. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    Grid it and layout by hand, then tape it off (have them spec the type of tape).
     
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  3. LOL to just about the entire post
     
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  4. unclebun

    unclebun Active Member

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    You could have it printed as a banner and then lay it down, cut out the letters and draw the pattern.
     
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  5. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Hahaaa...... til you did the layout, have it printed and not put any markup on it, you'd be well over 10k, before it's cut out, traced or even painted. How do you expect to make any money doing that ??


    Question for the OP...... is this roof where the logo and copy are gonna go.... is it perfectly FLAT ??
     
  6. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    Projector and a drone after dark?
     
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  7. sinclairgraphics1

    sinclairgraphics1 Sinclair Graphics & Installations

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    Lol to you. What's the problem??
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. sinclairgraphics1

    sinclairgraphics1 Sinclair Graphics & Installations

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    We can charge more, I'm just throwing that number out there as a starting point. I understand square footage cost and time. Trying to gauge the right process and material.
     
  9. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Sooooo..... is it perfectly flat ??
     
  10. sinclairgraphics1

    sinclairgraphics1 Sinclair Graphics & Installations

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    I was told it has a very slight slope but mostly flat overall.
     
  11. unclebun

    unclebun Active Member

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    That size banner is $2812 from my wholesaler. Shipping est $200? So double the wholesale and we're at $6K. I doubt the layout of big block letters is going to take more than 10 minutes. Besides, the customer will pay whatever the OP wants to charge. He was figuring minimum $10K.
     
  12. sinclairgraphics1

    sinclairgraphics1 Sinclair Graphics & Installations

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    Exactly. Thank you for understanding! I don't usually post on forums because whatever you say gets ripped apart, no matter what.
     
  13. gnemmas

    gnemmas Active Member

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    Grid is the way we did. 90' x 1000' on a 500,000 sq.ft. roof. Which has a slight pitch and bunch of skylights and roof vents.

    Hired a mural painter to cut the outline only (he is good but expensive), then a painting contractor to fill-in.

    I don't know how he did it, you can not see from one side over the ridge to the other side.
     
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  14. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    No one needs you to post or not post, if you are afraid to do so and get ripped apart for not knowing your business. No one here is about roasting you for trying to learn. There're plenty of other threads to read and be part of, but you asked for help with an attitude of you know diddly about what's going on. You sounded somewhat frantic, but now you cop a different approach.

    Remember, you said you were only supplying the stencil. However the painters don't want to do a thing, except just lay it down and paint. So, who is gonna lay it on the roof, cut it out, tape it down so it doesn't blow away, trace all this stuff and then remove it all and throw it away ?? Your dime or there's. That would help in figuring out a cost.

    You've left out quite a few details, only to let anyone responding, go off in about 14 different directions and coming back with all kindsa answers.

    unclebun...... don't tell me where, but you can get a banner made that size for under 75¢ a square foot ?? Oh, and he said the letters are over 10' tall, so I figured there was some sorta graphic/emblem or something going into the equation. Not to mention, no one here knows how intricate this thing is, that eventually needs to be cut out. So, using this banner idea, you're gonna need some sort of lift to get something that awkward and bulky up on the roof, let alone a few people to help move it around. There are so many costs besides all the work needed to just make a banner.​
     
  15. unclebun

    unclebun Active Member

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    Everyone here uses that same supplier. Their normal price is $1/sq ft but there was a quantity discount for this size. And if you are concerned about weight, you could break it up into pieces. But, short of hiring someone to grid it out, I was trying to throw out a solution. If the OP knew how to grid out the pattern, he wouldn't be asking how to do it, even though that is probably how all the old-timers would do it. I have no idea how much someone would charge to grid it out, but I was offering what I thought was a novel method. Around here, we can rent a self-driving boom lift with forks for $500/day, so getting the banner on the roof wouldn't be that hard.

    I was thinking along the lines of how you'd use a paper pattern, but paper wouldn't survive at that size. And who could print it anyway?

    But even if you believe that gridding it out is the way to go, you probably should explain how the OP could do that, given he doesn't know the nuts and bolts of how to go about it. Otherwise, you haven't helped him at all. The internet is full of how to double or triple the size of a pattern for woodworking, etc., but scarce information is available for doing something this big.
     
  16. sinclairgraphics1

    sinclairgraphics1 Sinclair Graphics & Installations

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    Definitely not frantic. I do know my business, but I certainly don't make 150' stencils everyday so it's new territory.

    My company will install the stencil on the roof and handle all of that part. I like the banner idea but trying to trim out a banner on a roof without damaging the roof membrane is something that needs to be figured out. We will have access to lift and have 4-5 installers on site.
     
  17. JBurton

    JBurton Signtologist

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    My guy said $2212 for the billboard face 25x150, one color. Definitely not banner at that price.
    Just use a bodyguard knife to trim the stencil out. Have the roofer/painter approve whatever masking tape you are going to use to hold the edges down. Bring some 5gal buckets and a water hose to hold down the bulk of it.
    Now that I think about it, the billboard faces we have been getting from these guys are less than watertight. I don't know if I'd use one as a stencil, more as an outline guide. Lay it out, cut it apart, walk around it with the marking spray paint wand (approved marking spray paint of course), roll it back up and toss it. Profit? The real question is who gets to fly the drone to check your placement before you start marking/cutting?
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. signbrad

    signbrad Member

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    A paint stencil seems impractical and expensive. This is a simple pounce pattern job. It's just big.

    I would make 3 or 4-foot wide by 25-foot long pounce patterns and then tile them side by side. The transferred charcoal lines will be plenty good enough for professional painters to follow. Even then, the edges need not be crisply perfect since the graphics will be viewed from the air. Edges could be cut in with 3 or 4-inch cutters, or even 3-inch rollers, then filled in with large rollers. 2-inch tape could be used on long straight lines, if needed, but I probably wouldn't bother. Cutting lines by hand at that size is quicker.

    Once you are up on the roof, position and tape down the center pounce pattern first. This first pattern must be positioned perfectly, of course. Dust it with charcoal, then align and tape additional patterns on either side, dusting as you go, till the entire 150-foot design is transferred to the surface.

    I did a similar job on the side of a large building two years ago out of a bucket truck by myself (and I am very old). I carefully positioned the top of the center pattern and unrolled it downward, taping as I unrolled, after which I dusted with charcoal from bottom to top as I ascended back up to the top. Then I was ready for the second pattern to be positioned on the wall next to the first, taping it down as I descended, then dusting with the pounce bag as I ascended. Working from the center to the right, and then from center to left, I was able to transfer the entire layout to the wall by noon and then started painting. Transferring the design took three setups of the truck, and I moved it again three times for painting. I could have painted the middle section before pouncing the rest of the layout, but I wanted the entire design to be on the wall before painting. (I don't always trust my math). As it was, I moved the truck six times instead of three. Toward the end of the first day's painting, I also went over all the remaining lines with a Sharpie marker before I went home, as there was a chance of rain which could have washed off the charcoal lines.

    Your roof job should be no more difficult than hand lettering a wall, and you won't have to fight gravity or make multiple setups of a lift. Wind can be a factor, but Gorilla tape to hold the patterns is pretty secure.
    I would use the heaviest pattern paper practical for your plotter. If your plotter can't perforate the paper it can be perforated by hand with a large pounce wheel, but you will have sore fingers. Mark the center pattern and number the rest of the patterns left and right from the center out. If you end up with 50 patterns you will want to keep them from getting mixed up.

    This is not a super complicated job. And it is an opportunity to make a nice chunk of cash for the cost of a roll (or two) of kraft paper, whether they apply the paint or you do. This is just a large billboard lying down. Your back will be sore. If you do the painting, do as much rolling as possible using broom handles on the rollers so you can work standing.

    You could even show the painters how to tape down the patterns and tile them side by side so that all you would need to do is make the patterns. They would probably do just fine.
     
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  19. sinclairgraphics1

    sinclairgraphics1 Sinclair Graphics & Installations

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    Ah yes, I didn't think of using the bodyguard knives for this. We use them all the time in the shop.
     
  20. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    Or save the cutting step and have a mesh banner printed - spray through the banner to set up guides to mask out after you roll the banner up.
     
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