New Product More Attentive

[Black Star]

There are 2 common things I see in Robert's threads. The first is how Robert finishes his first post. For instance, this one is, "If so, let’s have a private conversation." Robert is not telling anyone that they NEED his services and they MUST take him up on his offer. Robert pays to advertise on this site and he isn't pushy or rude about it.

The other common thing is Gino just can't help but argue no matter what. Gino would argue with the banner ads if they would respond back which I think is Robert's downfall. Don't feed the trolls or they will keep coming back for more.

Mike Drysdale is posting his actual experience with Robert and is giving him nothing but praise for the good job he's felt Robert has done for him. That still isn't good enough for Gino so now Gino is questioning Mike's experience.

Gino, you obviously don't need Robert's services but why do you feel the need to argue? Robert isn't doing anything to you but for some reason you can't help but attack. I understand if you do this the first few posts but by now you must know that you don't care for Robert's services and or care for Robert at all. You just can't help yourself.

I read all of Robert's posts and I don't want his services but I don't sit here and argue with him about it or feel the need to attack over them. I still read every single one of his posts because maybe one day I will take him up on his offer. The internet is already a horrible place and Gino only adds negativity to these posts. Please just stop and let Robert be instead of hijacking almost every one of his threads.

 

[Gino]

There are 2 common things I see in Robert's threads. The first is how Robert finishes his first post. For instance, this one is, "If so, let’s have a private conversation." Robert is not telling anyone that they NEED his services and they MUST take him up on his offer. Robert pays to advertise on this site and he isn't pushy or rude about it.

The other common thing is Gino just can't help but argue no matter what. Gino would argue with the banner ads if they would respond back which I think is Robert's downfall. Don't feed the trolls or they will keep coming back for more.

Mike Drysdale is posting his actual experience with Robert and is giving him nothing but praise for the good job he's felt Robert has done for him. That still isn't good enough for Gino so now Gino is questioning Mike's experience.

Gino, you obviously don't need Robert's services but why do you feel the need to argue? Robert isn't doing anything to you but for some reason you can't help but attack. I understand if you do this the first few posts but by now you must know that you don't care for Robert's services and or care for Robert at all. You just can't help yourself.

I read all of Robert's posts and I don't want his services but I don't sit here and argue with him about it or feel the need to attack over them. I still read every single one of his posts because maybe one day I will take him up on his offer. The internet is already a horrible place and Gino only adds negativity to these posts. Please just stop and let Robert be instead of hijacking almost every one of his threads.

My goodness, but aren't you the end-all ?? You mention my name more times in one post than I post in a whole day.

There are more than two common things going on with robert and myself. If you only knew. Hahahahaaaa...........

• I'm not pushing anything down robert's throat, but I am curious as to why he cannot advertise in a way of which we all know in a community of like-minded advertisers ??
• As for your concern blackie, I don't care for you, therefore I don't listen to you, but I will answer you the best I can.
• If you consider trying to find out what someone has to offer..... arguing, simply because I don't understand how he phrases, asks or communicates, that's between he and I, unless you have an answer, instead of just some silly non helpful comments.
• Rather than ruin roberts thread with your diatribe, why not start your own thread and just go head-to-head with me ??
• Now, you're pretending to be a mindreader, too. In saying that, you're other comments are totally nonsense as they have ne meaning, just emotional outbursts.
• If you want me to stop, again try making a thread about it, PM'ing me or just contacting me direct, instead of railroading someone else's thread.

Last, I'm still trying to find a way for me to contact him but on mutual terms. However, I must understand what he is saying and offering so I can make a sound decision. I take it, you don't work that way with your touching, inner flare-ups.

 

[Black Star]

"My goodness, but aren't you the end-all ?? You mention my name more times in one post than I post in a whole day."

I mentioned your name 6 times in my post. Your last post was your 7th post today just on this thread. It is pointless to argue with someone who can't count and then tries to make an invalid point about it.

 

[Jester1167]

I have the same take as Gino for the same reasons which I have expressed many times.

Robert, it would be more convincing if new member Mike didn't live in your city. Why don't you get existing members from this site to give you testimonials?

 

[GAC05]

There are 7 listening in now.

 

[Gino]

Oh my...... all those dislikes. What am I going to do ?? Woe, is me, oh wo-o-o-oe, is me. I feel so violated with all the emotion relentlessly thrown at me.

 

[Robert Armerding]

I have the same take as Gino for the same reasons which I have expressed many times.

Robert, it would be more convincing if new member Mike didn't live in your city. Why don't you get existing members from this site to give you testimonials?

Jester1167 "new member Mike" - look at his profile to see when he became a member.
Not sure what difference it makes which city he lives in.
I joined Signs101 as a merchant member with the desire to find sign makers who are open to improving their business. I was warned by quite a few people that Signs101 was a rough place.
I was also told by many industry leaders that sign makers are not generally interested in working on improving their business. These leaders told me that the status quo is fine with many sign makers.
Nonetheless, I am still here as a paid-up merchant member. Plus I will continue my banner ads. If nothing else, I am happy to support this forum because I do see lots of good.
And, I have had several Signs101 members contact me and encourage me to keep on keeping on.
So, for now, I plan to continue posting threads, continue to look for "one" early adopter who is willing to give me a try. After all, Jester1167 your business started with one client. That is what I am looking for. After one, it can be two, and four, and more. It all starts with one. Given the culture of this forum, it looks like it will take quite a while.
I have been in the sign-making business for decades. And this is where I want to stay, come what may.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Hmmmm, this seems appropriate here

 

[Jeremiah]

Why would a professed expert or teacher not want to show their credentials ? Especially one who is charging for "services " ?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Why would a professed expert or teacher not want to show their credentials ? Especially one who is charging for "services " ?

His credentials are usually at the bottom of his posts. They are also on his profile.

 

[Robert Armerding]

Why would a professed expert or teacher not want to show their credentials ? Especially one who is charging for "services " ?

Jeremiah As I recall, you have raised this kind of question before. Let's take your reply one item at a time.
If I have come across to you as a "professed expert," I apologize. Case-in-point, More Attentive, I have studied that topic extensively. I have learned a lot. Enough to know that I am not an expert.
On being a "teacher." I come from a family with many professional teachers. However, I have never taken a class in the field of education. I have also found that for someone to really learn something, teachers are only a small part of the process. I am here to help those who want to learn. In the process, I may only be a guide, a guide to a great teacher.
On the idea of "charging" a price, I much prefer to start with a new client at no charge. Why? Two reasons. First to make sure there is a fit. Second to make sure that I do indeed deliver value to my client. One client told me, "Robert, we are going to pay you whether you want to be paid or not." To be clear. I do very much like to be paid. But only if I am well worth it.
I prefer to think of myself as an "encourager." Sort of as an "accountability buddy." I work with others to discover their best goals, the best improvements for them, and then come along to help them take the next small step.
I ask you, Jeremiah, have I cleared up your question or made it worse?

 

[Gino]

Well, since ya come out to share again, may I ask you...... you only scratched the surface of my first question. You said I had 10 questions. I'm sitting on pins and needles waiting for you to address the other nine. Don't wanna be a PITA, but I'm just sitting here, listening for more. Will there be more, or have you written me off ??

 

[Robert Armerding]

Well, since ya come out to share again, may I ask you...... you only scratched the surface of my first question. You said I had 10 questions. I'm sitting on pins and needles waiting for you to address the other nine. Don't wanna be a PITA, but I'm just sitting here, listening for more. Will there be more, or have you written me off ??

Gino Your second question, "What, listening or being more attentive??"
I am not sure what you are looking for so let me guess.
There is a difference between listening and being more attentive. We all know how to act like we are listening when we are thinking about dozens of other things. We can pretend to be listening and do it very well. For me, the decision to be "more attentive" is a deliberate choice to truly hear what the other person is saying. "More attentive" requires a clear mind, an open mind. That is easy to say, but not one bit easy to practice. There is so much more to really being "More attentive." For just one example, listening with empathy. In other words, listening as if you are walking in the other person's shoes. Listening to the point where the other person feels like they have been fully understood, fully heard.
Most everyday conversations may not need that level of listening skills. Yet, there are conversations that come with a lot of pressure, a lot of conflicts, heavy emotions. To resolve those issues requires a higher level of "More attentive" listening. Higher than most of us have readily available. Indeed, we all know how to push back. Argue. Get angry. Few of us are able to truly listen under extreme pressure. Conflicts and resentments can go on for years, decades.
In the sign shop, errors, do-overs, mistakes are usually the result of someone not being attentive.
Gino maybe I have completely missed the focus of your second question. I am open to hearing that I have not answered your question.
I want to add one important detail. Listening with an open mind, listening with empathy comes with a high risk. That risk? You may have to change your mind. That is a risk that very few are ready to take.
That is how I see it. As per usual, I doubt that you and I will agree. Maybe. We shall see.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

You have to teach a lesson in "polite persistence". Got to admire it from you.

 

[Reveal1]

Robert, I think you struggle with communicating your value as a consultant. That alone sends warning flags to anyone who might need help listening, which of course is one half of a two-way communication. But you don't deserve the mistreatment you get on this site, some of which has come from me. Admire your persistence and I sense you are genuinely convinced you have something of value to bring to the table, but maybe some work with someone good at written communication might help. I hope you get it figured out.

 

[ikarasu]

I don't think it's mistreatment, so much as it it frusteration.

Every 2 weeks I have Jehovas witness's coming to my house trying to convert me. No matter how many times I decline, or tell them I don't need it... or try to get them to come in to learn about Catholicism, they keep coming back with the same spiel without innovating or approaching it from a different direction. Some people try to Brute force their way in.... and it doesn't work.

I think a lot of the jabs at OP is because people try to point out how confusing some things are, how when people point out his advice consists of asking questions and getting your opinion instead of actually giving advice... its just met with more questions and round table talk.

Now the posts are a bit condescending too - Warned S101 is tough... warned signmakers don't want to improve their business because theyre stubborn?

Don't take this the wrong way. But if I felt I needed business advice... I'd open the phone book and find one of a hundred Business consultants that have degrees and proven track records... people who listen to what my needs are rather than saying generic stuff that everyone who has a business should already know. So if you want people on here to listen to you... you first need to prove yourself to them... But so far it's all riddles and deflection.

Every business has room for improvement. I just spent the week testing new materials and finding one I can get in 30" so I can obsolete 3 different rolls because the material fits the bill for all 3. Less inventory on hand, less inventory to manage, more time savings in ripping/printing/laminating... etc.

I have a list of 100 thing on my To-Do list to make my business better, from saving money to investing more, to following up and keeping customers happy. Listening to a business consultant with no credentials besides a few word of mouths, who happens to be a scissor sharpener as well isn't high up on my priority list.


Heres some business advice for you to listen to and think about -

Do some meaningful discussions while giving some meaningful advice as a group. Everyone of your posts are pretty much about private messaging you. Show people you actually have something useful to offer... Then you wont need to solicit people, they'll come to you. Right now what you're doing is the equivlant of me going to every Laundry mat and saying I used to run a laundry mat business for 20 years and I know what your signs should look like, heres my card and I'll design a new sign for you.... then wondering why no one calls me back. I _MAY_ find their sign ugly, but maybe they don't - Does that mean they dont want to improve their business?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I do hope you do well. I don't think your services will ever be for me - and I think most of S101 feels the same. I do think you're better off on a business consultant forum, but you go wherever you want to go - I guess if you help 1 person on here, it's still worth it... but I think you'd reach a lot more people on a different venue... or at the very least, taking a different approach.

I mean, if your goal is to get 1 person to have a free discussion with you within 1 week... That might tell you there isnt much demand. I know I wouldn't try to get a single sale in a week... and if thats all I could muster up, I'd aim for a different approach.

 

[Gino]

Very well put.

 

[Robert Armerding]

I don't think it's mistreatment, so much as it it frusteration.

Every 2 weeks I have Jehovas witness's coming to my house trying to convert me. No matter how many times I decline, or tell them I don't need it... or try to get them to come in to learn about Catholicism, they keep coming back with the same spiel without innovating or approaching it from a different direction. Some people try to Brute force their way in.... and it doesn't work.

I think a lot of the jabs at OP is because people try to point out how confusing some things are, how when people point out his advice consists of asking questions and getting your opinion instead of actually giving advice... its just met with more questions and round table talk.

Now the posts are a bit condescending too - Warned S101 is tough... warned signmakers don't want to improve their business because theyre stubborn?

Don't take this the wrong way. But if I felt I needed business advice... I'd open the phone book and find one of a hundred Business consultants that have degrees and proven track records... people who listen to what my needs are rather than saying generic stuff that everyone who has a business should already know. So if you want people on here to listen to you... you first need to prove yourself to them... But so far it's all riddles and deflection.

Every business has room for improvement. I just spent the week testing new materials and finding one I can get in 30" so I can obsolete 3 different rolls because the material fits the bill for all 3. Less inventory on hand, less inventory to manage, more time savings in ripping/printing/laminating... etc.

I have a list of 100 thing on my To-Do list to make my business better, from saving money to investing more, to following up and keeping customers happy. Listening to a business consultant with no credentials besides a few word of mouths, who happens to be a scissor sharpener as well isn't high up on my priority list.


Heres some business advice for you to listen to and think about -

Do some meaningful discussions while giving some meaningful advice as a group. Everyone of your posts are pretty much about private messaging you. Show people you actually have something useful to offer... Then you wont need to solicit people, they'll come to you. Right now what you're doing is the equivlant of me going to every Laundry mat and saying I used to run a laundry mat business for 20 years and I know what your signs should look like, heres my card and I'll design a new sign for you.... then wondering why no one calls me back. I _MAY_ find their sign ugly, but maybe they don't - Does that mean they dont want to improve their business?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I do hope you do well. I don't think your services will ever be for me - and I think most of S101 feels the same. I do think you're better off on a business consultant forum, but you go wherever you want to go - I guess if you help 1 person on here, it's still worth it... but I think you'd reach a lot more people on a different venue... or at the very least, taking a different approach.

I mean, if your goal is to get 1 person to have a free discussion with you within 1 week... That might tell you there isnt much demand. I know I wouldn't try to get a single sale in a week... and if thats all I could muster up, I'd aim for a different approach.

ikarasu First of all, thank you for your feedback. You have given me lots to think about. I appreciate it.
If you are willing, I would like to see if we could take your input and narrow it down to what is most important to you. For now, I will guess. My guess might be way off. One of my favorite topics is about something you brought up here. That topic is your "To-Do list." Again, that topic may not be important to you. If it is, then I do have some tips that I learned from my resources. ikarasu I am attempting to respond to your reasonable directions. Pick a topic on "make my business better" and I will respond, right here on this forum. Or, maybe you would rather not. In summary, from your own perspective, when it comes to improving your own business, what might be at the top of your list?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

As they say, there's an a*s for every seat. I'll play devil's advocate here. There are people that would seek out the services of a consultant and then there are those that never would. The latter group, including myself, are the ones questioning all of this and essentially think that if robert can't convince us that his services are of value than he will never convince anyone. Really though, those that would seek out a consultant don't need to be convinced, they already see potential value.
Ickyragu, how is picking up the phone book and calling someone you know nothing about any better than taking a gamble on this guy who at least knows something about the industry?

 

[Jester1167]

I think a lot of the jabs at OP is because people try to point out how confusing some things are, how when people point out his advice consists of asking questions and getting your opinion instead of actually giving advice... its just met with more questions and round table talk.

Robert, you have heard this may different ways from several people. I've probably said it 3 or 4 times and you're not "listening." There are many posts on here a business consultant could chime in on and show how valuable their services are, or even provide humor, but you don't. Instead, you offer a free peek behind the door constantly and topics you cheerlead on. Free advice should be shown in the forum and you will get people thinking, "Wow, I like what Robert has to offer, maybe he could really help me." Instead, we get posts about scissor sharpening and at one point you forced in your buzzed word "listen" to dozens of posts where it didn't really fit.

Posts that a business consultant could add something to that would help convince people of your value, you may not have the answers but a business consultant should be able to provide some direction.

https://signs101.com/threads/does-this-ever-happen-to-you.162756/#post-1513849
https://signs101.com/threads/install-checklist.162680/
https://signs101.com/threads/anyone-have-a-good-response-to-this-google-review.162788/
https://signs101.com/threads/how-do-you-handle-this-type-of-deal.162723/

I am sure there have been a lot more in the last year.

Justin Pate had a little bit of a rocky start. ''How to wrap a van in 4 hours'' He got criticized for his dismal cleaning. He was trying to illustrate that the actual wrapping doesn't take that long if you create good techniques and don't waste time. In the video, the van was already clean and he was just wiping off any dust that may have settled on it, but it looked like he made a half-ass attempt at cleaning. He continued to provide lots of free videos and created a vocabulary for installation before he made a penny. Now he's one of the top trainers and has thousands of people paying $99 a year for his online videos and gets paid thousand to fly from the Netherlands to teach Avery classes. Prove to them you are worthy and they will flock to your services

Like Ikarasu, I don't have anything against you personally and I hope you succeed in something, but your cheerleader/psychotherapist style posts rubbed me the wrong way from the very first one.

Adapt and good luck.