More of Phillip's handywork...

[Moze]

I agree on the coloring. The coloring wasn't Phillip's doing. I picked the colors from a Pantone chart. On the chart I liked them, but on the logo, against various backgrounds, etc., it looks more pastel then it did on the Pantone chart. The colors are being changed to some that Phillip originally recommended.

I also agree on the "seamstress"/"tailors"/"sewing" tape. I like it because when surveying, I actually use one of these quite a bit. Wrap it around a pylon support pole, divide the circumference by 3.14, and you can get a quick diameter. It comes in handy for a number of things. But customers might not get that and I've gradually come to wish it were something else. With a couple of small tweaks, I think it's going to convey what I'm wanting it to. So that's in the works.

It looks complete and finished, but I have to agree with others here.

I don't see "sign company" or "precision" in this logo design.

Something about the kerning on the type is bugging me. The text, "sign services"... I would have opted for a different font for that part altogether.

They can't all be winners, or appeal to everyone though. But food for thought, it should appeal more to your potential client base than your own sense of aesthetics.

Out of curiosity, and not really related to the critiques here...What kind of signage does Precision Sign Services specialize in? Where does the "precision" come into play?

I'm not a sign company in the sense that the majority of people think of a "sign company". I offer services - not products. I install non-illuminated signs (ADA, post & panel, suspended, projecting, vinyl, FCO's, etc.) and provide sign and site surveys....in other words "Sign Services"...as stated in the name.

I think some on this site don't 'get it' at first because the majority of the members on this site (I believe) are involved in design, graphics, printing, etc. and have probably never done the things that I do (the same as I have basically zero experience in wide format printing, etc.). There are others (Gino, Rick, Jhill) that obviously have a background in the electrical sign industry and understand what goes into a sign or site survey, etc.

So the clients/potential clients that I talk to understand what it is I do by the time they have my business card because I've already discussed with them exactly what I offer. I deal in a niche that most here don't and many never have. So granted, many here won't 'get it' because they don't see how it relates to what they do.

I love the script and the font is fine. None of my customers are going to be distracted by the font or give it a second thought.

The word "Precision" comes into play because I really do try to be as absolutely precise as possible in my installations and surveys. Probably to a fault. I sweat centering and leveling signage to the 1/16th and even to the 1/32. Overkill to most? Absolutely. Sometimes it even bothers me. It's probably a borderline OCD thing. Due to the layouts of some signs, customers have said "that looks crooked". I know with 100% confidence that I can put a level on it and it is dead on. It's shocking the amount of sloppy work out there. I've installed new signage in business's with existing signage and can immediately see signs that are glaringly off-level. I can't imagine installing a sign like that, putting a level on it, seeing it's off by 1/8" and saying "oh well" and not taking the 5 minutes to remove and install it correctly. If I notice - surely the customer notices and cares. The same goes for surveys. When sketching a cross-section of the wall of a high-rise and specifying to within a very precise area where the shop needs to put the penetrations for channel letters due to post-tension cable, air ducts, window mullions, ceiling tiles, wiring, sprinkler lines, etc. - you better hope you're dimensions are correct.

Anyway, that's what I mean by "Precision Sign Services".

 

[bob]

It's possible that we like it Bob...that's why there's complements...

There's no accounting for taste, or rather a lack of it in this case. Compounded by a complete poverty of acumen in the design and typesetting arts.

...I would love to see one of your pro designs one day.

I have no need of either complement nor criticism.

 

[Moze]

Well my 1st statement was a....great readable logo & identifiable.

When you drive & coming up to a intersection ( you can see the red light or stop sign )

A truck or van rolls by in front of you eyes... you would be able to read this & identify before it crosses the road your traveling.

That is the whole point. you must identify & read, the FABRIC tape measure makes a .... P... BONUS ya can not do that with any other single measuring device & BE recognizable.
Plus putting tape in a shape of a P into a odd shape that fits the flow.

The image...retro, hands on family service, non hard sell. that is the colors & style of logo is what i see... & that IS POSITIVE.

Excellent logo, outstanding.

Thank you for the kind words, Craig. All credit goes to Phillip. Any flaws, perceived or otherwise, are more my doing than his.

I like the tape. But I do think with a couple of small tweaks, it's going to get the message across even better. That's being worked on.

I agree with your comments on seeing a logo on a truck going by. Although it would take some time and exposure for this logo, I immediately was drawn to the basic design of it because if it was on the door of a sign company's boom/bucket/skyhook truck, it's easily memorable. You only have to see it a couple of times to say: "that's so-and-so sign company". That being said, I will likely never have a recognizable fleet of trucks and I don't advertise on my truck because to me it's also advertising to the wrong people (ie: 'this truck is used for business, come steal my tools'). It's a shame we live in that kind of world, but having this on my truck would do more harm than good.

 

[Moze]

There's no accounting for taste, or rather a lack of it in this case. Compounded by a complete poverty of acumen in the design and typesetting arts.



I have no need of either complement nor criticism.

Put your Word of the Day calendar away. You look silly.

 

[SignProPlus-Chip]

Moze, Thanks for the information on your company, it does help put the logo design into better perspective too.

 

[HulkSmash]

There's no accounting for taste, or rather a lack of it in this case. Compounded by a complete poverty of acumen in the design and typesetting arts.



I have no need of either complement nor criticism.

Please go outside

 

[visual800]

I dont care for any of it. The colors are horrible, reminds me of country blue. The logo is not something that would make me jump up and take a picture of. This looks like something a relative would have created for their grandmother that does sewing out of the backroom. The card is horrible also, lots of negative space left over. This is my opinion I dont know it all

If I had to offer suggestion it would be back to the drawing board on this one, I don't see honestly how other sign people can say this is a good and effective layout. and please understand Im not ripping folks a new one and not try to create a controversy

 

[neato]

Thank you to those of you that added constructive criticism.

Moze has decided to revert back to the original colors.

 

[Jillbeans]

1000% better.

 

[visual800]

Phillips logos are awesome! The work of the late 80s and early 90s which I can dig. Im still just not digging this logo, I dont know what it is about it

 

[JTBoh]

distressed look doesnt really scream precision either... i think ya need the clean lines, because that does.

When i see distressed, I think crumbling concrete.

 

[ForgeInc]

Hmmm. Unfortunately I am with Bob on this one, there isn't much I like about it other the choice of font for "sign services" and as others have said says absolutely nothing to me about "precision" or "sign services". The soft rule tape has no energy at all, no flow, I think that's why it seems phallic. There are so many things you could do with a tape to make it have more interest, just seems kinda "blah" to me. It also seems really tight in that shape, which I think is very foreign too, like it's screaming to have part of it break away from that shape somehow.

I also think the script font, with all the sharpness of the points on the letterforms and overall casual nature doesn't relate to the more rounded nature of the shape and the illustration, nor the concept of "precision". Perhaps if all you do are hand lettered signs it would be more appropriate, but if that were the case I would say then your name is off as well.

Colors, although slightly better on latest version were horrible.

I have seen some stellar designs by Phillip in the past, can't say personally I am a fan of this one but if the client is happy that really is all that matters.

Just my humble $.02.

 

[ForgeInc]

I agree on the coloring. The coloring wasn't Phillip's doing. I picked the colors from a Pantone chart. On the chart I liked them, but on the logo, against various backgrounds, etc., it looks more pastel then it did on the Pantone chart. The colors are being changed to some that Phillip originally recommended.

I also agree on the "seamstress"/"tailors"/"sewing" tape. I like it because when surveying, I actually use one of these quite a bit. Wrap it around a pylon support pole, divide the circumference by 3.14, and you can get a quick diameter. It comes in handy for a number of things. But customers might not get that and I've gradually come to wish it were something else. With a couple of small tweaks, I think it's going to convey what I'm wanting it to. So that's in the works.



I'm not a sign company in the sense that the majority of people think of a "sign company". I offer services - not products. I install non-illuminated signs (ADA, post & panel, suspended, projecting, vinyl, FCO's, etc.) and provide sign and site surveys....in other words "Sign Services"...as stated in the name.

I think some on this site don't 'get it' at first because the majority of the members on this site (I believe) are involved in design, graphics, printing, etc. and have probably never done the things that I do (the same as I have basically zero experience in wide format printing, etc.). There are others (Gino, Rick, Jhill) that obviously have a background in the electrical sign industry and understand what goes into a sign or site survey, etc.

So the clients/potential clients that I talk to understand what it is I do by the time they have my business card because I've already discussed with them exactly what I offer. I deal in a niche that most here don't and many never have. So granted, many here won't 'get it' because they don't see how it relates to what they do.

I love the script and the font is fine. None of my customers are going to be distracted by the font or give it a second thought.

The word "Precision" comes into play because I really do try to be as absolutely precise as possible in my installations and surveys. Probably to a fault. I sweat centering and leveling signage to the 1/16th and even to the 1/32. Overkill to most? Absolutely. Sometimes it even bothers me. It's probably a borderline OCD thing. Due to the layouts of some signs, customers have said "that looks crooked". I know with 100% confidence that I can put a level on it and it is dead on. It's shocking the amount of sloppy work out there. I've installed new signage in business's with existing signage and can immediately see signs that are glaringly off-level. I can't imagine installing a sign like that, putting a level on it, seeing it's off by 1/8" and saying "oh well" and not taking the 5 minutes to remove and install it correctly. If I notice - surely the customer notices and cares. The same goes for surveys. When sketching a cross-section of the wall of a high-rise and specifying to within a very precise area where the shop needs to put the penetrations for channel letters due to post-tension cable, air ducts, window mullions, ceiling tiles, wiring, sprinkler lines, etc. - you better hope you're dimensions are correct.

Anyway, that's what I mean by "Precision Sign Services".

After reading this i immediately had the idea of making your identity look like a blueprint, or perhaps an engineering drawing of some kind....maybe with a really techical looking sketch of a tape measure, and perhaps incorporate the slug lines and other technical info you always see on blueprints maybe?

https://www.google.com/search?q=blu...rViwLeqYDIDw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1646&bih=900

 

[visual800]

Despite the "type" of sign work you do, your still a sign guy. I get that you are precise and I respect that. I also understand the type of signage you do.

This logo is horrble for your line of profession. If I was directed to make a logo like this it would not be on my webpage or portfolio. The logo does not fit the business, kinda like using all upper case futura bold for a funeral home, it not a good fit. When I look at your logo I don't know what you do right off the bat, I think a logo should tell that story.

Now please understand I'm not expecting you to have lighting bolts with an over embellished photoshop logo either. That to me is crap and judging by Phillips other logos he would never do that, his stuff is classy and eye catching. Once again i'm not bashing you nor Phillip, you asked for opinions and your asking people that design logos, I try not to dodge and save peoples feelings, Im think most in here are trying to hold back you can tell by their posts

 

[signmeup]

I suspect that this logo design was hijacked by the customer and Philip has done the best he could with tied hands. Being familiar with Philips work, this is the only explanation that makes sense to me.

There is nothing in the logo that hints at precision... or signs. The script font... nope, no precision there. Cloth tape measure... no again. The colours... not really sharp and precise.(if it's possible to have sharp, precise colours)

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it doesn't much matter what the business owner likes... it's HIS customer that has to be drawn in by the logo.

Great quote that sums up the problem very neatly: "The logo does not fit the business, kinda like using all upper case futura bold for a funeral home, it not a good fit."

 

[Moze]

After reading this i immediately had the idea of making your identity look like a blueprint, or perhaps an engineering drawing of some kind....maybe with a really techical looking sketch of a tape measure, and perhaps incorporate the slug lines and other technical info you always see on blueprints maybe?

https://www.google.com/search?q=blu...rViwLeqYDIDw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1646&bih=900

That was one of my earlier thoughts, prior to ever contacting Phillip. I'm not sure how it would be incorporated though and I guess I kind of counted the idea out because of that. Maybe if an actual designer were to run with the idea though, they would come up with something pretty great. I don't know.

Despite the "type" of sign work you do, your still a sign guy. I get that you are precise and I respect that. I also understand the type of signage you do.

This logo is horrble for your line of profession. If I was directed to make a logo like this it would not be on my webpage or portfolio. The logo does not fit the business, kinda like using all upper case futura bold for a funeral home, it not a good fit. When I look at your logo I don't know what you do right off the bat, I think a logo should tell that story.

Now please understand I'm not expecting you to have lighting bolts with an over embellished photoshop logo either. That to me is crap and judging by Phillips other logos he would never do that, his stuff is classy and eye catching. Once again i'm not bashing you nor Phillip, you asked for opinions and your asking people that design logos, I try not to dodge and save peoples feelings, Im think most in here are trying to hold back you can tell by their posts

Thank you for the thoughts, Bruce.

Short of spending millions of dollars in advertising to develop brand recognition (I'm short this week ), I don't know how a logo could be designed that clearly conveys at a glance the idea of installations and surveys. I mean my option would be to have some sort of pictorial that conveys it or to just have a tagline that says it. A tagline seems like it would be too much text (Precision Sign Services - Installations & Surveys....?). Maybe not. I don't know.

Phillip gave me a number of logos to choose from and I suspect some of the other options would have been widely accepted by most here. I just liked this one. I still like it, so it's frustrating to think I picked a winner and then see it picked apart.

I suspect that this logo design was hijacked by the customer and Philip has done the best he could with tied hands. Being familiar with Philips work, this is the only explanation that makes sense to me.

There is nothing in the logo that hints at precision... or signs. The script font... nope, no precision there. Cloth tape measure... no again. The colours... not really sharp and precise.(if it's possible to have sharp, precise colours)

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it doesn't much matter what the business owner likes... it's HIS customer that has to be drawn in by the logo.

Great quote that sums up the problem very neatly: "The logo does not fit the business, kinda like using all upper case futura bold for a funeral home, it not a good fit."

I don't feel like I hijacked the design. There have only been minor revisions to the original design.

I agree the logo has to appeal to my customers. But short of asking them what they think (not an option obviously), I have to rely on what I feel will appeal to them (and take into consideration the thoughts posted in this thread)

That being said, I do appreciate the constructive criticism offered.

 

[ForgeInc]

That was one of my earlier thoughts, prior to ever contacting Phillip. I'm not sure how it would be incorporated though and I guess I kind of counted the idea out because of that. Maybe if an actual designer were to run with the idea though, they would come up with something pretty great. I don't know.

If you hired someone to do it for ya, isn't it their job to incorporate it or execute that vision? I'm surprised you wouldn't have brought up the idea as a concept in your briefing, i think something along those lines would be much stronger.

Might be worth tossing up a few of the others for feedback, unless of course you are happy with what ya have. Great thing about this forum is all the professional opinions you get. I keep thinking about what we say in here a lot "if you are happy with it, that's all that matters"

Sometimes I guess that's true but from a business perspective if a logo just doesn't convey the right message it can actually be detrimental to growth, no matter how happy the client may be with it.

 

[Moze]

Yes, it's definitely their job to try to bring the idea to life. By the time I approached Phillip, I honestly forgot about the blueprint idea. Plus I was wanting something retro.

We're going to review everything here in the next day or two (he's building a website for me as well), so we'll see what we can hammer out.

I think the problem with posting various ideas on here is that there are some very opinionated members here and it's rare that a logo is posted and everyone loves it. It's not unheard of for two experienced designers to have differing opinions on a given logo. We've all seen it.

I honestly still like the logo I chose. There's another one that he designed that I keep finding myself looking at and half wishing I had chosen. He does such nice work, it was hard to make a decision. It's like going to The Cheesecake Factory and trying to pick one meal out of their huge menu. It's all good but you can only get one thing. Phillip is like The Cheesecake Factory.

 

[april80]

needing help

http://firefighterparamedicstories.blogspot.com/2010/06/maltese-cross.html

i need this in a plain vector. i cant find it anywhere for free online, any help? thanks

 

[Moze]

I think you went left when you meant to go right.