Mounting acrylic to brick wall options

[Moze]

There is/are no replacements for physical fasteners........ hidden, stand-off or whatever. Any adhesive or double sided tape can come loose for any number of reasons. Other than a hurricane or earthquake, the physical fasteners have a far better chance of not having something land on some unsuspecting pedestrian.

The question isn't whether something will hold OR not, but if it doesn't, the consequences you'll pay for not making sure no one is ever hurt from YOUR installation.

Lots of variables here.

Here's my take on this...

Let's say he's dealing with 1/4" acrylic (which isn't a true 1/4"....more like .220") and he's stud-mounting it. They drill maybe 1/8" into the acrylic and tap it. The studs thread in maybe a turn and a half. He installs it in brick with silicone to help hold it. Maybe he knows he should use a neutral cure silicone which is recommended for masonry. Maybe he doesn't and he uses an acid-cure which isn't recommended for masonry. Either way, kids hit it, the building shifts, whatever....that sign can easily fall if stressed at all.

Take the same sign and tape mount it with VHB tape and Lexel and you will literally need a pry bar to get it off the wall.

If the OP would post a pic of the install surface and thickness of the acrylic, a definitive answer could be provided. Otherwise, we're only guessing at the 'best method'.

 

[ams]

That's your prerogative, but if you honestly think that construction adhesive and VHB won't hold a tiny piece of acrylic to a brick wall, I'm not sure what to you tell you.

Well the maintenance guy today at a shopping center that we do work for said a glued logo fell off today and almost hit him in the head. He said he is banning that sign company from the property due to a number of issues. It's interesting how this happened as this forum thread popped up at the same time.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Well the maintenance guy today at a shopping center that we do work for said a glued logo fell off today and almost hit him in the head. He said he is banning that sign company from the property due to a number of issues. It's interesting how this happened as this forum thread popped up at the same time.

Sure, I don't doubt that, but how big was the sign? What was it attached to? How much "glue" did they use? What kind of glue was it?

That's like me saying, "Yeah, I was in a car and it wrecked, so nobody should drive cars."

If you don't believe it, test it yourself. There's an acrylic sign on a cinder block wall at an old shop I used to work at that is only attached with construction adhesive. It's been up for over 10 years and you can literally hang on it and it still doesn't budge. I've broken acrylic signs that we've installed trying to remove them from concrete walls because the adhesives are that strong.

If you're only using mechanical fasteners, you should probably reconsider, since any schmuck can walk in and pull a stud mounted sign right off a wall.

 

[ams]

Sure, I don't doubt that, but how big was the sign? What was it attached to? How much "glue" did they use? What kind of glue was it?

That's like me saying, "Yeah, I was in a car and it wrecked, so nobody should drive cars."

If you don't believe it, test it yourself. There's an acrylic sign on a cinder block wall at an old shop I used to work at that is only attached with construction adhesive. It's been up for over 10 years and you can literally hang on it and it still doesn't budge. I've broken acrylic signs that we've installed trying to remove them from concrete walls because the adhesives are that strong.

If you're only using mechanical fasteners, you should probably reconsider, since any schmuck can walk in and pull a stud mounted sign right off a wall.

It was about 2' X 2', I don't know much details, just that it was glued and fell. We all have our differences

 

[Rick]

First surface or second surface graphics/paint?

I'm not a big fan of physical attachments on sign faces unless it's part of the design.

On most brick/block/stucco applications I prefer an undersized backer, and physically attach that to the wall using countersunk hardware, then attach the face to the backer using a combination of adhesive and VHB tape.

If it's second surface graphics and/or paint, make sure you do not directly apply adhesive or VHB to it, it can often times transfer over some ghosting to the face.

 

[Gino]

If you're only using mechanical fasteners, you should probably reconsider, since any schmuck can walk in and pull a stud mounted sign right off a wall.

I don't believe we're talking about vandalism. We seem to be speaking of a good way to attach a sign to a wall without it coming down. Taking into consideration, that these schmucks are doing their job correctly and not winging it.

You wanna use glue and tape, go right ahead, nothing wrong with it, just that there are much better ways. All things must be taken into the equation. That's all that is being presented here. Nothing more.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

I don't believe we're talking about vandalism. We seem to be speaking of a good way to attach a sign to a wall without it coming down. Taking into consideration, that these schmucks are doing their job correctly and not winging it.

You wanna use glue and tape, go right ahead, nothing wrong with it, just that there are much better ways. All things must be taken into the equation. That's all that is being presented here. Nothing more.

Vandalism is one of the main reasons we repair and replace signs. Second, people pulling signs off walls is one of the main reasons they come down. A properly installed sign doesn't just fall off a wall. 99% of the time one of our signs comes off the wall it's because someone made an effort to get it off of the wall.

Maybe things are different in smaller towns and cities, but we definitely account for tampering with every sign we produce.

 

[Marlene]

I would stud mount it only. If you do use tape of some kind, do a masking tape test on the brick. If you stick masking tape to the brick, pull it off and the tape is covered with brick dust and specks, the surface of the brick is loose and unstable. If that is the case you are really sticking tape or glue onto brick dust, not the brick. Is there a reason why you don't want to use studs or masonry screws?

 

[ams]

Vandalism is one of the main reasons we repair and replace signs. Second, people pulling signs off walls is one of the main reasons they come down. A properly installed sign doesn't just fall off a wall. 99% of the time one of our signs comes off the wall it's because someone made an effort to get it off of the wall.

Maybe things are different in smaller towns and cities, but we definitely account for tampering with every sign we produce.

The sign I was discussing is about 12 feet high, so it wasn't vandalized and it naturally fell off without anyone around it touching it.

 

[Gino]

Well, I hate to say it, but if vandalism is one of your main reasons for replacing signs, then either you or whoever is installing them is doing a lousy job. Perhaps, you would be well advised to looking into better ways to instal your signs..... or maybe inform the municipalities where these things are being removed to change their specs. In 46 years or so, I don't think I've had more than a handful of signs ripped off or vandalized.

Back in the days when we hand painted them, it was easier to remove graffiti, but stealing signs...?? Only traffic signs and street signs were/are stolen and you usually find them in the dorm rooms around the area.

I do warn real estate people not to put a new sign on a property within a week of Halloween, but that's about it.

Yep, you have a mighty big problem if your mainstay is replacing stolen or broken signs all the time.
​

Again, we weren't talking about tampering with signs, but installing them. Please... remain focused.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Well, I hate to say it, but if vandalism is one of your main reasons for replacing signs, then either you or whoever is installing them is doing a lousy job. Perhaps, you would be well advised to looking into better ways to instal your signs..... or maybe inform the municipalities where these things are being removed to change their specs. In 46 years or so, I don't think I've had more than a handful of signs ripped off or vandalized.

Back in the days when we hand painted them, it was easier to remove graffiti, but stealing signs...?? Only traffic signs and street signs were/are stolen and you usually find them in the dorm rooms around the area.

I do warn real estate people not to put a new sign on a property within a week of Halloween, but that's about it.

Yep, you have a mighty big problem if your mainstay is replacing stolen or broken signs all the time.
​

Again, we weren't talking about tampering with signs, but installing them. Please... remain focused.

I didn't say our mainstay was replacing stolen and broken signs. I said ONE OF the main reasons we REPAIR and REPLACE existing signage is because it gets vandalized (or stolen). Second, I never said that we're repairing or replacing signs that we put up. Nice attempt at a dig though, Gino. As I already stated, we use adhesives and studs when necessary, and we never stud mount without also using a construction adhesive of some sort.

I'm glad you live in Mayberry and nobody ever steals anything. We're located in a major metropolitan area (I believe we're somewhere in the top 20, 17th to 19th range) and it happens fairly frequently (several times a year).

I know you're a contrarian that hates being wrong, but how can you possibly justify what you're saying when you contradicted in this previous post?

I don't believe we're talking about vandalism. We seem to be speaking of a good way to attach a sign to a wall without it coming down. Taking into consideration, that these schmucks are doing their job correctly and not winging it.

You wanna use glue and tape, go right ahead, nothing wrong with it, just that there are much better ways. All things must be taken into the equation. That's all that is being presented here. Nothing more.

So ALL THINGS must be taken into consideration, unless Gino isn't the one to consider it, then it doesn't count?

 

[Gino]

Look derby, when you learn to read and write what you wrote yourself, don't be calling me out. You added things to your original post that now made it more clear. Your original one made it sound like thats all ya did.

Vandalism is one of the main reasons we repair and replace signs. Second, people pulling signs off walls is one of the main reasons they come down. A properly installed sign doesn't just fall off a wall. 99% of the time one of our signs comes off the wall it's because someone made an effort to get it off of the wall.

And that's not a request. That is a direct observation of your habits and foolish notions. ​

Aslo, where I live vs. where you live has no bearing whatsoever on how well or lousy you instal signs or not. The fundamental rules are the same regardless of location, size of a town or who is doing the work. You openly stated, your work consists of a lotta vandalised and falling down signs. What am I supposed to think..... or am I supposed to read your mind ??

And last, yes all things taken into consideration, but vandalism wasn't his concern. He stated he wanted to go with a stud mount method, unless some glue or tape would work better. It's good to bring things to someone's attention, but to now make that your only glimmer of hope to save face is just plain dumb and you know it.

Why don't you ask if he has permits or insurance or drills or a long extension cord or..... well, you'll think of it. You're full of ideas, huh ??

edit: Oh yeah, I did not put a dig in at your capabilities or non-capabilities. I merely said if you or whoever installed these signs........... you took it to heart. So charming.​

I didn't say our mainstay was replacing stolen and broken signs. I said ONE OF the main reasons we REPAIR and REPLACE existing signage is because it gets vandalized (or stolen). Second, I never said that we're repairing or replacing signs that we put up. Nice attempt at a dig though, Gino. BUT YOU DID As I already stated, we use adhesives and studs when necessary, and we never stud mount without also using a construction adhesive of some sort.

I'm glad you live in Mayberry and nobody ever steals anything. We're located in a major metropolitan area (I believe we're somewhere in the top 20, 17th to 19th range) and it happens fairly frequently (several times a year).

I know you're a contrarian that hates being wrong, but how can you possibly justify what you're saying when you contradicted in this previous post?

So ALL THINGS must be taken into consideration, unless Gino isn't the one to consider it, then it doesn't count?

 

[eahicks]

 

[Gino]

I believe it's over. derby went home for the day or got scolded for being on the internet, again.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

I believe it's over. derby went home for the day or got scolded for being on the internet, again.

I actually do work instead of spending 24/7 on the internet, Gino.

You have a tentative grasp on either English or reality. Either way, you turn every thread into The Gino Show.

"One of the main reasons we repair and replace signs" isn't the same as "we mainly repair and replace signs" and if you're incapable of differentiation between the context of those two sentences, frankly, you're stupid.

[Edit: For the record, I do think you're stupid, Gino. ]

 

[Gino]

I actually do work instead of spending 24/7 on the internet, Gino.

You have a tentative grasp on either English or reality. Either way, you turn every thread into The Gino Show.

"One of the main reasons we repair and replace signs" isn't the same as "we mainly repair and replace signs" and if you're incapable of differentiation between the context of those two sentences, frankly, you're stupid.

[Edit: For the record, I do think you're stupid, Gino. ]

So, other than the usual village dolts, who cares what you think ??

You're reasoning, observations or opinions are just about nil. You think wa-a-a-ay too highly of your your own abilities. Whatever...... lotsa young kids today have no idea of the real world around them. Leave home NOW, while you still know everything. That's a friendly suggestion, not an order, like you've been dishing out.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

So, other than the usual village dolts, who cares what you think ??

You're reasoning, observations or opinions are just about nil. You think wa-a-a-ay too highly of your your own abilities. Whatever...... lotsa young kids today have no idea of the real world around them. Leave home NOW, while you still know everything. That's a friendly suggestion, not an order, like you've been dishing out.

Clearly you care or you wouldn't keep posting, but you are seemingly incapable of any kind of self restraint.

I'd like you to find a few examples of where I'm tooting my horn. I offer up suggestions based on what we do at our shop. I never say, "This is the only way! Anything else is wrong!" That would be YOU, Gino. You're the one that argues with any conflicting opinion to your own until you're blue in the face. You're a blowhard, Gino. It's embarrassing, frankly.

My suggestion would be to stop projecting and to shut your mouth while you can still climb out of this hole.

 

[unclebun]

That's your prerogative, but if you honestly think that construction adhesive and VHB won't hold a tiny piece of acrylic to a brick wall, I'm not sure what to you tell you.

We didn't add construction adhesive, but VHB will not stay stuck to red brick. We ran into this with a church room sign job where a few of the signs had to go on what had once been an exterior brick wall. The VHB only stayed stuck a few months, then fell off.

 

[Gino]

Guess he wasn't finished, huh ?? However, he keeps calling me out and then asks why I respond. Guess that's the part hard to understand. He asks me 5 questions, but makes fun of me if I answer them.

Clearly you care or you wouldn't keep posting, but you are seemingly incapable of any kind of self restraint.

I'd like you to find a few examples of where I'm tooting my horn. I offer up suggestions based on what we do at our shop. I never say, "This is the only way! Anything else is wrong!" That would be YOU, Gino. You're the one that argues with any conflicting opinion to your own until you're blue in the face. You're a blowhard, Gino. It's embarrassing, frankly.

My suggestion would be to stop projecting and to shut your mouth while you can still climb out of this hole.

My question to you would be kinda the same..... you constantly seem to come back for more. Why ?? You lack the same restraint you condemn me of ?? But it's alright for you, huh ??

Now, you want me to do your homework and look through 700 some posts for somewhere... where you might've said something nice, haha or smart ?? Right, that's like a needle in a haystack. Besides, you can't even write clearly without contradicting yourself. Who'd want that job. Then, I hafta listen to you bark out orders of how I should behave.

Just like your buddy the toadster, you call people names, talk down to them and push your half-baked thoughts out like they're the gospel and then back-pedal like crazy when your own statements are proven wrong.


I was answering the OPs request and you came along and railroaded his thread and started arguments with 2 separate members about frankly, nothingless. Now, this thing has gone wa-a-a-ay off track and you are to blame. Yes, I participated, but whose really the culprit ??

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Guess he wasn't finished, huh ?? However, he keeps calling me out and then asks why I respond. Guess that's the part hard to understand. He asks me 5 questions, but makes fun of me if I answer them.



My question to you would be kinda the same..... you constantly seem to come back for more. Why ?? You lack the same restraint you condemn me of ?? But it's alright for you, huh ??

Now, you want me to do your homework and look through 700 some posts for somewhere... where you might've said something nice, haha or smart ?? Right, that's like a needle in a haystack. Besides, you can't even write clearly without contradicting yourself. Who'd want that job. Then, I hafta listen to you bark out orders of how I should behave.

Just like your buddy the toadster, you call people names, talk down to them and push your half-baked thoughts out like they're the gospel and then back-pedal like crazy when your own statements are proven wrong.


I was answering the OPs request and you came along and railroaded his thread and started arguments with 2 separate members about frankly, nothingless. Now, this thing has gone wa-a-a-ay off track and you are to blame. Yes, I participated, but whose really the culprit ??

Gino, ever notice how you tend to be the center of these spats on the forums? VERY RARELY is there any drama between anybody else. It's you and your little buddy constantly needling at people and trying to get under their skin. You're a bully, which is why I keep coming back. I don't tolerate it, you think you can bully your way around the forums, like every other internet troll on the planet.

The problem is that when someone points out where you're wrong, you can't ever prove anything. You just open your mouth and let all the BS come spilling out.

I'm not calling you names. I'm saying I think you're stupid, because act like an idiot on the forums, you disagree with anybody who questions you, then YOU resort to name calling. You can barely form coherent sentences in English and have trouble with basic reading comprehension. You're every middle school bully ever, Gino. You're just WAY too stupid to realize it. I'd even bet you were on the football team and were giving nerds swirlies in the locker room.

Anyway, I know you're going to come back with more, because you're too dumb to realize you're getting handled right now, so I'm looking forward to continuing to dismantle you!

We didn't add construction adhesive, but VHB will not stay stuck to red brick. We ran into this with a church room sign job where a few of the signs had to go on what had once been an exterior brick wall. The VHB only stayed stuck a few months, then fell off.

Yeah, we very rarely use just VHB for any application. It's almost always VHB and adhesive or studs and adhesive. I'm surprised it lasted several months on an exterior brick wall, that's pretty impressive. Your installer must have used a lot of muscle to stick it that firmly. Haha!

We've had it happen in the past. Installers cutting corners trying to save time.