My 1st Plotter/Cutter - HELP!

[CZ]

Hello ALL!

Total noob here facing an equipment dilemma...


So here's the deal,
I'm a designer looking to branch out into vinyl decals, murals, etc (no printing)


My biggest concern is being able to replicate even the finest of detail,

I've been eyeing the Graphtec CE6000-60 and the Roland GX 24, based on the info I had seen, Graphtec was the way to go, But I just noticed Roland updated the GX24 to the GS24 which now has slightly more cutting power...

Also, spoke to someone today about SummaCut D75, slightly more expensive but I was intrigued. When I mentionned cutting fidelity, he told me that using ORACAL 631, he was able to cut text as fine as 6pt!! ( I know.. i know..., I will rarely be cutting type at 6pt but it's awesome to know it can be done!)

So i guess my question is:

If you had to buy a first machine today, and precision was your main priority (not speed)
Which would you choose:
Graphtec CE6000-60 (affordable, comes with stand, tons of people swear by it)
Roland GS-24 (new model! but seems very similar to CE6000-60)
Summa D75 (not very much feedback from users, but apparently bad ***)

Thanks a bunch!

 

[mark-s]

Graphtec cut smaller details better than Roland.
I run 2 Graphtecs for cutters.

mark-s

 

[Techman]

My biggest concern is being able to replicate even the finest of detail,

Why? Why would one want to chase that kind of duplication?
Vinyl moves after it is cut. It retracts, stretches shrinks, whatever it wants to do. Vinyl sheets shift, drag, skew, buckle and any other variation it wants to perform as it moves around the cut table.

As for precision.. They all cut well. But cutting down to 6 point is about the most useless thing one would want to do. Actually. I do not believe any cutter will consistently cut usable 6 point. It is a waste of time to consider such precision as a deciding factor on choosing any cutter. Simply the vinyl will lift from the backing. 1/2 inch is about the smallest practical size any one would want and even then weeding that mess is an absolute chore.

There are so many variables that change the precision. Even a dull blade will change it. Cold vinyl, hot weather, cut pressure all change things.

Then after all that the machine will wear and stretch and change its precision after a while. Going OCD over that kind of want is a lesson on futility. This is not rocket building. This work is just laying on of vinyl to make an image. We are not duplicating photographs.

All those major brands cut vinyl and do it well within the realm of reasonable accuracy.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Why? Why would one want to chase that kind of duplication?
Vinyl moves after it is cut. It retracts, stretches shrinks, whatever it wants to do. Vinyl sheets shift, drag, skew, buckle and any other variation it wants to perform as it moves around the cut table.

As for precision.. They all cut well. But cutting down to 6 point is about the most useless thing one would want to do. Actually. I do not believe any cutter will consistently cut usable 6 point. It is a waste of time to consider such precision as a deciding factor on choosing any cutter. Simply the vinyl will lift from the backing. 1/2 inch is about the smallest practical size any one would want and even then weeding that mess is an absolute chore.

There are so many variables that change the precision. Even a dull blade will change it. Cold vinyl, hot weather, cut pressure all change things.

Then after all that the machine will wear and stretch and change its precision after a while. Going OCD over that kind of want is a lesson on futility. This is not rocket building. This work is just laying on of vinyl to make an image. We are not duplicating photographs.

All those major brands cut vinyl and do it well within the realm of reasonable accuracy.

And after all that, once you reach a point where the thickness of the vinyl and adhesive exceed the amount of adhesive on the substrate, the slightest touch or rub will cause the vinyl to lose adhesion to the substrate and go missing.

 

[CZ]

Why? Why would one want to chase that kind of duplication?
Vinyl moves after it is cut. It retracts, stretches shrinks, whatever it wants to do. Vinyl sheets shift, drag, skew, buckle and any other variation it wants to perform as it moves around the cut table.

As for precision.. They all cut well. But cutting down to 6 point is about the most useless thing one would want to do. Actually. I do not believe any cutter will consistently cut usable 6 point. It is a waste of time to consider such precision as a deciding factor on choosing any cutter. Simply the vinyl will lift from the backing. 1/2 inch is about the smallest practical size any one would want and even then weeding that mess is an absolute chore.

There are so many variables that change the precision. Even a dull blade will change it. Cold vinyl, hot weather, cut pressure all change things.

Then after all that the machine will wear and stretch and change its precision after a while. Going OCD over that kind of want is a lesson on futility. This is not rocket building. This work is just laying on of vinyl to make an image. We are not duplicating photographs.

All those major brands cut vinyl and do it well within the realm of reasonable accuracy.

Thanks! I was beginning to think I might be looking at this from the wrong angle!

 

[OldPaint]

get a BN-20 ROLAND)))

 

[visual800]

Go with the Graphtec and get that roland POS out your mind. (I dont why in the hell folks are so stuck on that Roland GX24) As far as the finest detail, I dont see a point in this when cutting vinyl.

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

Love my Summa. In fact when I started my own company, with my experience with them, I knew I wanted Summa, without even comparing other plotters.

As far as Roland, I worked for a guy that had one, and it was a pain to load to get any decent length to cut.

 

[Dennis422]

I started with CE5000-60 and now have FC8600-130.
Both nice machines. CE will do the work. If you will not be contour cutting, no need for Summa. It is a better machine, but without contour cutts, Graphtec will do a very good job. With a need of a contour cut, Summa is superior (What I have heard) but quite a bit more $.
I would not look into any other brand than those two.

Good luck

 

[LeLuni]

Graphtec or Summa will do an equally good job for the work you are doing.

Your decision factors are then cost vs. support. The Graphtec is roughly $1800 and the Summa roughly $2500 (I think). Summa is centralized and extremely responsive with support questions, and I believe that Graphtec sells through multiple dealer channels and is not very responsive in terms of technical support. Someone can step in and tell me if I'm wrong about Graphtec, as I may not have the most up-to-date info.

Keep an eye on Craigslist for Summa cutters for sale. Summa will treat you the same whether you're the first or tenth owner of the equipment. I found a 15 year old 54" D1400 tangental cutter for $650, and really, the technology hasn't evolved all that much in 15 years as far as straight cutting is concerned.

If you were doing optical registration, I would say that it would tip slightly in favor of Summa, but really, both machines are solid.

 

[Jillbeans]

I'd go with Graphtec, especially since you can cut directly from a design program like Corel.
Mine can cut pretty damn small.
Love....Jill

 

[OldPaint]

Go with the Graphtec and get that roland POS out your mind. (I dont why in the hell folks are so stuck on that Roland GX24) As far as the finest detail, I dont see a point in this when cutting vinyl.

YOU ...do know that a GX-24 ROLAND........ is an entry level product???? and is NOT THE SAME MACHINE as a CAMM-1 ROLAND PRO MACHINE.
i have never owned anything but rolands. BUT I HAVE NEVER owned a CX/GX/-24. reason being, i KNEW ............ that those are no where near the same as the CAMM-1. i started with a PNC-1000, 20" MAX WIDTH .......... but built and worked like a tank. moved up to a PNC-1100. 24".....again this is the PRO equipment. worked so good i bought another for my mobile unit. got a deal on a CX-300.........7-8 years ago.....this is a whole different machine.......and the best.......
the big dif in the CX/GX-24 TO PRO SERIES....all rolling points in the CX/GX are nylon bushings where as all CAMM-1 rolling points are ball bearings.......just like the ones in all the wheels on you vehicle, just smaller.
oh and i have never NEEDED another cutting program then COREL..........since 1992......version 3.0 and now i have X7.

 

[ayukish]

There really aren't any features on the new GS-24 that make it a better option than the Graphtec. It will cut a little faster (real speed, not specs), but you're not looking for speed if you want to cut fine detail.

I'd go with the Graphtec and use the savings on the price difference to purchase some materials that will make you some $$.

 

[visual800]

YOU ...do know that a GX-24 ROLAND........ is an entry level product???? and is NOT THE SAME MACHINE as a CAMM-1 ROLAND PRO MACHINE.
i have never owned anything but rolands. BUT I HAVE NEVER owned a CX/GX/-24. reason being, i KNEW ............ that those are no where near the same as the CAMM-1. i started with a PNC-1000, 20" MAX WIDTH .......... but built and worked like a tank. moved up to a PNC-1100. 24".....again this is the PRO equipment. worked so good i bought another for my mobile unit. got a deal on a CX-300.........7-8 years ago.....this is a whole different machine.......and the best.......
the big dif in the CX/GX-24 TO PRO SERIES....all rolling points in the CX/GX are nylon bushings where as all CAMM-1 rolling points are ball bearings.......just like the ones in all the wheels on you vehicle, just smaller.
oh and i have never NEEDED another cutting program then COREL..........since 1992......version 3.0 and now i have X7.

SO BASICALLY.........you agree with me THAT THE roland gx-24 sucks!........pos THEY ARE

 

[ayukish]

SO BASICALLY.........you agree with me THAT THE roland gx-24 sucks!........pos THEY ARE

Calling the GX-24 a "POS" is a bit aggressive. A bit outdated? Maybe. When the GX-24 came out years ago, it was revolutionary. It was much better than any Graphtec or Mimaki cutter available at the time. Probably not as good as the Suma, but it wasn't priced as high either. The other companies caught up to Roland and rolled out some nice cutters over the last few years. The new Roland GS-24 is in the same class as the CE6000 and other devices. Everyone has their preference.

The GX-24 has made many people a lot of money over the years. It was and still is a fine option to start a business.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

The GX-24 has made many people a lot of money over the years. It was and still is a fine option to start a business.

I still use the GX-24 that we got years ago. Now granted it's mainly used for applique pieces (biggest use) and heat transfer vinyl, and small vinyl signage. Not anything that would test the machine by any means. But it does run ALOT.

I think most people get entry level equipment and expect more out of it and lose sight that it is entry level. For us, we don't need anything over 24" as it is (24" is usually the entry level size as well (well into the BN-20 for print and cut), so getting the bigger boys isn't necessary for us, but that is us.

 

[OldPaint]

SO BASICALLY.........you agree with me THAT THE roland gx-24 sucks!........pos THEY ARE

it is what it is)))))) an ENTRY LEVEL, plotter......as all in that price range are.
i was just informing you .......NOT TO BASE ALL ROLANDS on the entry level non-pro model.
i can sit here, 3 feet from the CX-300 and , while the plotter is cutting at 50 ips and talk on the phone......its that quiet.............

 

[Techman]

The other companies caught up to Roland

Actually. Other companies caught up to the Anagraph.

It was about the best cutter for the money with features and ability that are not matched to this day for non sprocket cutters..

 

[Jackpine]

Graphtec CE6000-60 or a Summa D75

 

[Bretbyron]

Allen Datagraph FTW!!!





TGIF