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My first credit card charge back! Woo hoo!

Pat Whatley

New Member
Customer called a few months ago and said he had a sign cabinet that he needed new faces in. It no longer had working lighting and he didn't want to fix it, he just wanted aluminum panels to slide into it. Asked him what size he needed the panels, he didn't know, so we talked about how to measure it so he'd make sure to not just measure the opening because the panels would be larger than the opening.

He ordered them 42" x 88". Mentioned to him that size was kind of weird, he told me he still had one of the old faces that fit perfectly and he'd just measured that. Made sense to me so I went with it.

Did the order, he picked them up, liked them, everybody was happy.

A month later a get a phone call...first thing I hear is "Son, you still made my G D panels the wrong size." Talked about it a few minutes, he told me that they were 1" short width and 3" short height. The drops from having the aluminum cut were still here so I measured them and the math came out that I'd cut them down to the size he ordered, they even had the marks where I'd done the math to double checked them before cutting.

After a bunch of conversation with two different people I finally figured out what had happened. The sign had a 40 year old pan face in it. He'd measured the raised part of the pan face. His argument is that the "sign" is the part printed on the raised section and I should have known that and how was he supposed to know how much space to add around it and I was supposed to know that because I was the one in the sign business. Apologized, told him I told him several times how to measure and there was nothing I could do, I did them the size he ordered. He insisted I remake them or refund them....I refused both. He called 4-5 times over the next two weeks, my answer never changed. Finally got me to the point I quit discussing it with him.

Checked my bank account online this morning.....BAM....credit card charge back had been deducted from last night's settlement. This should be interesting.
 

fresh

New Member
I had a chargeback a few months ago from some d o u ch ebag who ordered something, and then after I sent him layout and revisions he decided he wanted to kill the project. The credit card company gave him his money back, even though I had "no refunds" in writing, and I had proof that he received what he paid for.

i hope you have a better outcome.
 

SameDay Signs

New Member
Also a similar story here. A customer came in we did a layout for a simple trailor lettering and he paid the $400 in full down. We had him sign the proof with the date project was due on it and that was that. Well it was a special order material and it took about 3 days to get in granted we had 2 weeks so no biggie. Well long story short stuff came in and then he called that day wanting it done for the following day. We were busy and said no. Go to my bank a couple days later and out the $400 went. Had to take him to court and after 4 months and extra money to file court stuff we got our money back. Hopefully you can reason with him but unless you have something in writing by email or signed proof it is going to be super tuff. Good luck though
 

Pat Whatley

New Member
They say they sent me two separate letters about it....and I apparently (and quite possibly) ignored them both. That's a dang good article, thanks for posting that.
 

amw

Longtime Members
We had a similar situation with a chargeback. We provided all the info we could to the cc processer and it came out in our favor. We proved over and over that the mistake was the clients bad measuring and not ours. This job was all email and over the phone as the client was in TX and we are in MI. Took about 3 months but we got all our money back. Good luck! Marsha
 

Snydo

New Member
Customer supplied dimensions are always tantamount to playing Russian Roulette with your materials and time.

Best of luck getting reimbursed.
 

asd

New Member
somebody did this to me about 4 months ago, I got a letter from my cc processing company about the charge back, the very next day I went to the store remove the sign and now I have a sample to display
 

anotherdog

New Member
somebody did this to me about 4 months ago, I got a letter from my cc processing company about the charge back, the very next day I went to the store remove the sign and now I have a sample to display

In Law you just stole his sign. He could easily have you arrested for taking it back.

Once you leave the property after an install the sign belongs to them.

The debt is a civil action, the removal of the sign is criminal.
 

lexsigns

New Member
whats with clients lately?? chargeback week?? see the square post! In a battle too right now! no more CC 's for me! Ill take my chances in court with my signed contracts that say "NON REFUNDABLE" deposits!!!
 

MtnView

New Member
In Law you just stole his sign. He could easily have you arrested for taking it back.

Once you leave the property after an install the sign belongs to them.

I was about to say the same thing. You might want to ask your attorney what the law is there and see what you can do to reverse that before a friend of your client tells them what the law is if they didn't know already.
 

Techman

New Member
In Law you just stole his sign. He could easily have you arrested for taking it back.

Not every where. Get a legal opinion before worrying about this rule..

However,,,
depending on the circumstances.

First of all you tell the guy you are taking back the sign and have him sign off on it. Then its ok.
Or, if he never signed for it in the first place accepting the sign. It ain't accepted until he signs for it.
Or if he never paid for it and never signed accepting delivery then there is a good chance in many places that one can take it back.


I have a really nice 4x8 scalp on my wall I show to every one as proof... :rock-n-roll:

Just like a stop payment on a check.
The penalty for violating a stop payment regulation is two times face value plus expenses.
Stop payment can only be used if there is no exchange of value.
For example. You order a panel.. the supplier never delivers it. You can stop payment.
However if you order a service and the provider gives you anything of value no matter how slight in exchange then a stop payment cannot be used.

I got a scalp for this one too.. :rock-n-roll:

So please every one get some legal opinions for your area before listening to what is legal 900 miles away.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
First of all you tell the guy you are taking back the sign and have him sign off on it. Then its ok.

You have to be careful with what they signed off on though.

I see a trend where people have clauses entitled "Emergency Repair", but it reads like a repo clause. In TN and Al (more then likely other states as well, but those are the only ones that I for sure known about), in order to have a legal repo clause in your contract, it has to be called a repo, can't be called "emergency repairs" or anything else.

Of course, you also have to be aware of what it is you are trying to repo as there are other laws that might prevent a repo of certain permanent fixtures (or what is considered a permanent fixture) regardless of a legal repo clause.

It's amazing what laws that are out there (not just state but federal as well) that people would be surprise what they have was not legal and just because it's in a contract doesn't in of itself make it legal. I remember when I was working at a horse barn and we have an Equine Limited Liability Act here (several, but not all states have some derivative of one) and you have to go through hoops (at least here) in order to be able to get that protection, both in your contract (how it's worded etc) and with things you have to do around your barn as well.
 

asd

New Member
I don't know if any of you have seen a charge back letter from a credit card processor, but when you get the letter it tells you how much money was taken out of your account, when, and why, it also tells you what the customer wants to do about the products and services provided, so when the customer chose the option to have the sign removed and his money return, that means I can go to his place of business and remove my product, when I went to pick up the sign I gave them a copy of the letter so they knew why I was taking he sign back. this was not done in the middle of the night or when no one was around.
The reason for the charge back the color was not what they were expecting, they gave me the brand and number of paint to use for their sign and the way I see it, it was their mistake when they chose that color not mine, this happened in January if their attorney did not call me and the cops did not come to my shop. I guess I am of the hook for taking the sign back.
 

Joe Diaz

New Member
I'm certainly not giving anyone legal advice or supporting the idea of taking an unpaid-for-sign back... but I think the reason why (in most cases) it's unlikely that a someone contact the authorities when a sign maker repos a sign... the reason why so many other sign makers have gotten away with it... is because that same person is afraid that during that process, at some point they are going to have to own up to, or draw attention to the fact that they haven't paid. That being said some people behave in strange ways. A person who won't pay for a service you provide is already behaving in an irrational way, so beware a backlash if you do.

Wonder if there is a clause that can be added to a contract that would give you the legal ability to reclaim a sign if it is unpaid for? hmm? We try to avoid this by getting paid as much as possible before hand, but that doesn't help in the case of a charge back, so I would fight that first before trying to get your sign back. Other than a work sample, what good is someone else's sign going to be to you? I'd prefer to fight for the money not the sign.
 

RiXaX

New Member
Could you use the cut off's and pop rivet them on to the panels to enlarge them to what will fit his cabinet?
 
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