Need some help with an FC9000 Graphtec

[Notarealsignguy]

We've had this plotter about 6 months, use CM4 and print through Rasterlink. We're using barcodes or trying to but they don't really work for crap.
The barcodes will generally not work with anything over a few feet long. When we manually start these same longer files (all 3 feet of it), it can 10 times or more before it reads them all, constant errors. It is driving me crazy. Some days it works fine, others it's a fight. Any ideas? Pinch roller margins are fine.
Another issue, when you use the thumb drive, half the time it's missing files and we have to re-start the plotter, sometimes we have to delete anything else on the thumb drive to get it to work.

 

[Jay Grooms]

We've had this plotter about 6 months, use CM4 and print through Rasterlink. We're using barcodes or trying to but they don't really work for crap.
The barcodes will generally not work with anything over a few feet long. When we manually start these same longer files (all 3 feet of it), it can 10 times or more before it reads them all, constant errors. It is driving me crazy. Some days it works fine, others it's a fight. Any ideas? Pinch roller margins are fine.
Another issue, when you use the thumb drive, half the time it's missing files and we have to re-start the plotter, sometimes we have to delete anything else on the thumb drive to get it to work.

If you figure it out, let me know. Onyx and the FC9000 seem to hate each other.

 

[JBurton]

For one, buy a different thumb drive, every once in a while they just take a dive and stop working properly. Make it a reputable brand and dedicate it to the plotter items.
As far as the barcodes, idk, never got them to work on my old 8600 and onyx. Haven't tried since I updated onyx though.
But, with the registration marks, do you use CM4 to generate the marks, or is that done in Rasterlink? If I make them using CM4 and forget to 'convert outline to object' (not sure what illy calls it), the mark will be too narrow and the plotter will hate it and reject it for 10 tries.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

For one, buy a different thumb drive, every once in a while they just take a dive and stop working properly. Make it a reputable brand and dedicate it to the plotter items.
As far as the barcodes, idk, never got them to work on my old 8600 and onyx. Haven't tried since I updated onyx though.
But, with the registration marks, do you use CM4 to generate the marks, or is that done in Rasterlink? If I make them using CM4 and forget to 'convert outline to object' (not sure what illy calls it), the mark will be too narrow and the plotter will hate it and reject it for 10 tries.

I'm using 2 name brand thumb drives, 1 with cut vinyl stuff on it and the other with print/cut on it. Not much is on either one, we usually do the same crap over and over.
We are using CM4 for registration and barcodes, haven't had any issues with cut lines using a hairline stroke not converted to an object. I did that before on a different machine and it wanted to double cut when the outline was converted to object. CM4 wont pick up the cut lines half the time anyways and I have to go through the file and restroke whichever ones don't work. It's a big waste of time, it was quicker when I used the printer to cut everything. Mimaki and Roland machines both ran these same files and never had any sort of issue with them. Just this graphtec.

 

[JBurton]

We are using CM4 for registration and barcodes, haven't had any issues with cut lines using a hairline stroke not converted to an object

I meant to say, only do this on the registration marks themselves, don't worry about the cut paths. It makes for a narrower registration mark, which can be the issue sometimes when reading the marks. (I too have felt the pain of double cutting, when another local shop sent me a file to run for them, nothing beats staying until 7 to laminate a print, go to plot it, and it double cuts either through the backing or just throwing hair wide strips of vinyl into the grit rollers)

What are you using CM4 in, corel or illy? I can walk you through my process, but while consistent in results, I'll be the first to admit it is not streamlined. Gotta make marks in one document, save it, then copy and paste them into the print document. I'd figured victor or ikarusa or somebody would chime in with how quickly they can load and scan a whole roll while they surf s101.

As far as the thumb drives not fully registering, it's likely because there isn't beans in the machine in the way of processing power. Here's a section out of the manual, which I don't fully understand, but it sounds like you can't have more than 64 files and folders displayed, and you can't travel any deeper than one level in the file tree. Pick up a 2gb stick, keep the file count to a minimum, and I guess don't bury too much down into the file tree.

But functionality of the flash drive aside, what's the reason to run it with a flash drive? Are the operators too inept to use a pc? That makes since, really, but for my folks that can't tell right click from left, I'll tell them what to load and then remote in to the pc and run the proper files for them, which I guess is wasting more of my time than handing over a flash drive.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I meant to say, only do this on the registration marks themselves, don't worry about the cut paths. It makes for a narrower registration mark, which can be the issue sometimes when reading the marks. (I too have felt the pain of double cutting, when another local shop sent me a file to run for them, nothing beats staying until 7 to laminate a print, go to plot it, and it double cuts either through the backing or just throwing hair wide strips of vinyl into the grit rollers)

What are you using CM4 in, corel or illy? I can walk you through my process, but while consistent in results, I'll be the first to admit it is not streamlined. Gotta make marks in one document, save it, then copy and paste them into the print document. I'd figured victor or ikarusa or somebody would chime in with how quickly they can load and scan a whole roll while they surf s101.

As far as the thumb drives not fully registering, it's likely because there isn't beans in the machine in the way of processing power. Here's a section out of the manual, which I don't fully understand, but it sounds like you can't have more than 64 files and folders displayed, and you can't travel any deeper than one level in the file tree. Pick up a 2gb stick, keep the file count to a minimum, and I guess don't bury too much down into the file tree.
View attachment 165654
But functionality of the flash drive aside, what's the reason to run it with a flash drive? Are the operators too inept to use a pc? That makes since, really, but for my folks that can't tell right click from left, I'll tell them what to load and then remote in to the pc and run the proper files for them, which I guess is wasting more of my time than handing over a flash drive.

The cutter is in a seperate building where we weed and all that. The idea was exactly what you said, throw some shit on the thumb drive and let the shop plug it in and go. Since we run a lot of the same files, they don't have to bother me for it. On paper it was very convenient and efficient. But now that I have to walk out of the office every 5 mins to try to get this turd working properly, it has become more of a time suck. This sign stuff is supposed to be a sideline to the regular business, not my full time job.
I use Corel X7. Take the file, group it, expand the page add 3 in to length, center it, drop down CM4>registration marks, export that page as PDF, then drop down CM4> cut file and save that to the thumb drive. I save all of the files on a central drive once they are created.

 

[JBurton]

Ah, here's my full approach in corel x6, using CM2. (at one point I upgraded to CM3 or 4, but for some reason CM2 worked better. Take that with a grain of salt, but CM2 is compatible with X7, and probably with a FC9000, minus a feature or two)
1 open file, group art and center on page, determine contour cut regions, add bleed, save as XXX print file.
2 start new document, copy cut lines onto new document, save as XXX plot file, CM2 drop down reg marks, then SAVE. This file is complete, but we need to pull the marks out of it.
3 unlock reg marks on object manager in the plot file, copy, paste into print file, hit Q on the reg marks only (convert outlines to object, not sure if that's a default shortcut or not), verify it's center of page, select all, export as PDF.
3.1 go back to the plot file and close it, don't save changes. I've had it act up when the layer was unlocked, when the marks have been converted, accidentally moving the marks, all sorts of stuff.

Now a couple things to point out. My page size never changes. As long as you export with the export function (not publish to pdf), and have 'page size determined by selection' clicked, it will export everything just fine. All the cutting control is done in CM2 at this point, shy of positioning the blade inside the first mark. Evidently CM2 will also make files you can save in this way as .plt. Never realized that, wonder why almost as it has no USB port shy of the pc connection.

And all of this is dependent on my files being on network, and having a PC at the plotter. For my money, I'd be afraid someone would load a print backwards or sideways, and since the marks are all the same, it would just scan and start cutting. Guess this is where the barcode comes in?

If the flash drive just working as it should is your biggest issue, I'd get a handful of smaller ones and start testing to see if you just have too many files on them or what. You may need a host of them to fulfill all your different customer's repeat orders, but that wouldn't be a tremendous investment, just pita.

 

[ikarasu]

The cutter is in a seperate building where we weed and all that. The idea was exactly what you said, throw some shit on the thumb drive and let the shop plug it in and go. Since we run a lot of the same files, they don't have to bother me for it. On paper it was very convenient and efficient. But now that I have to walk out of the office every 5 mins to try to get this turd working properly, it has become more of a time suck. This sign stuff is supposed to be a sideline to the regular business, not my full time job.
I use Corel X7. Take the file, group it, expand the page add 3 in to length, center it, drop down CM4>registration marks, export that page as PDF, then drop down CM4> cut file and save that to the thumb drive. I save all of the files on a central drive once they are created.

That must be brutal.

I'm assuming there's a PC at both locations? Why not run a virtual network, something like tailscale is super easy to use to link the 2 PC's, then you can just run the barcode server in building 2 and everything will be sent over... No need to run a usb drive over.

Though I guess if you have to run the vinyl over anyways...


Unless you have a faulty machine, it's likely user error - the machines are tricky, but once you get used to it... It'll be perfect.

To start - load the graphtec with your pinch wheels at the max they can be.... Even if it's bigger than the rollers. Then never, ever reload it! Move your pinch wheels to where your media width is and hit "continue" - we always had issues when loading with pinchwheels on the edge. This way it gives you more space and if the media is loaded slightly angled, the mark doesn't skew outside of the wheel.

How are you loading the material straight? We use our fingernails, dig them into the front 2 marks a d push it into the channel. Close the bar, load the media with continue ... Back it up 2" past the barcode, and 2" width wise away from the mark... Hit home so it makes that it's new home position (if your home / load position is within the mark, it doesn't matter if you move the media.. it won't read the marks ) jig to 1" away from the barcode... Hit barcode and read it. I'd say 98 out of 100 times it reads it the first try when we do that.

Another thing you can do is expand cutting area - it doesn't give you much more room, but it helps... I forget where it is on the top of my head.


What error is it giving you? That'll help narrow down the issue if the above doesn't help.

Typically if it can't find a mark it'll tell you and ask you to manually jog to it... So I think it's more that the mark is outside of its "home" window, usually when that happens it'll rewind to the beginning and give a different error

 

[Pauly]

If you figure it out, let me know. Onyx and the FC9000 seem to hate each other.

there is a firmware update but you need to be on the latest of onyx. it solved a fair few issues.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

there is a firmware update but you need to be on the latest of onyx. it solved a fair few issues.

Does this apply to all FC9000s? This one here is getting worse, I just spent 2 hours trying to get this thing to cut 4 files. I didn't change a thing, just kept restarting it and reloading the cut file until it finally will cut. It wont find the barcode files for about 90% of the files even though they initially worked. When you try to scan a second time you get an error and have to restart it. If it does pick it up, it will read the first mark and can't find the rest. Now at this point, when you try it manually, it skips detecting the crop marks and starts randomly cutting in the middle of the print. Restart again, reload the same file and it will work manually. This thing is a real turd. I suppose I need to contact Graphtec which will probably get me nowhere. Should have bought a Summa like I was told.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Typically if it can't find a mark it'll tell you and ask you to manually jog to it... So I think it's more that the mark is outside of its "home" window, usually when that happens it'll rewind to the beginning and give a different error

E05012 Cannot find the appropriate file is. Jog on over to the crop mark as you said and it starts cutting in the middle of whatever is there, doesnt scan any mark. Turn it off, back on, do it manually again and same thing. Reload the same file, reset it again, skip the barcode, set it manually and it cuts. Sometimes you have to do it over and over until it works. Every single file today. Total waste of time.

 

[ikarasu]

Sounds like a USB issue to me... if it cant find the file its not reading the USB disk properly.

We have a USB we use for about 30 repeat jobs and its never had an issue - so it does "Work", We have a few diff USB types and one of the types I bought doesn't work in the graphtec at all... it works in the PC, but thats it. So maybe its a bit picky on usb sticks?


https://www.amazon.com/TOPSELL-Flas...6590790&sprefix=usb+stick+pac,aps,186&sr=8-19 - These are the ones we keep bringing in to use. Cheap crappy small 8 GB sticks - Name brand in theory should be better... but who knows. I'd do a test with some cheap smaller sticks, maybe the name brand ones are big in size and its confusing it?


Personally I'd setup a PC next to it.... Run Tailscale on the PC And a PC at your other location, just so those 2 PC's can see eachother...save everything onto your main PC in a shared folder and have the Secondary PC reading and serving that folder as a barcode server... Much more reliable than a USB stick, I find USB sticks tend to break when pulling them in / out a lot... but of course I use cheap $5 sticks, so that could be why

 

[JBurton]

These are the ones we keep bringing in to use. Cheap crappy small 8 GB sticks

How are they formatted? Haven't run into such an issue lately, but seeing as how the graphtec is doing they heavy lifting, it could prefer ntfs to fat or something else.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Sounds like a USB issue to me... if it cant find the file its not reading the USB disk properly.

We have a USB we use for about 30 repeat jobs and its never had an issue - so it does "Work", We have a few diff USB types and one of the types I bought doesn't work in the graphtec at all... it works in the PC, but thats it. So maybe its a bit picky on usb sticks?


https://www.amazon.com/TOPSELL-Flash-Memory-Drives-Colors/dp/B06XK8PPDX/ref=sr_1_19?crid=31ZHEIWE6VZSF&keywords=USB+stick+pack&qid=1686590790&sprefix=usb+stick+pac,aps,186&sr=8-19 - These are the ones we keep bringing in to use. Cheap crappy small 8 GB sticks - Name brand in theory should be better... but who knows. I'd do a test with some cheap smaller sticks, maybe the name brand ones are big in size and its confusing it?


Personally I'd setup a PC next to it.... Run Tailscale on the PC And a PC at your other location, just so those 2 PC's can see eachother...save everything onto your main PC in a shared folder and have the Secondary PC reading and serving that folder as a barcode server... Much more reliable than a USB stick, I find USB sticks tend to break when pulling them in / out a lot... but of course I use cheap $5 sticks, so that could be why

I ran through the USB sticks, yes some will not work. I have 3 now. I cleared them out too thinking that maybe there's too much on a stick like Burton said. I can't see it being an issue with one because the file will show up after you jog through the files over and over or reset it. It's really weird, you may hit down and run through them all and it's not there but run through them with the up arrow and they are. They also work on every PC just fine. There is nothing consistent at all with what it is doing except making my blood boil.

The other day I was ready to smash the thing and my wife told me to go away while she fooled with it. She did it over and over and over and eventually it worked, that was manually and still had to do it multiple times.

 

[jfiscus]

We use Onyx with our three Graphtec FC9000 plotters here. As far as Onyx/Graptec knows, we're the first ones using multiple FC9000 plotters with Onyx...
To get everything "happy" for the most part, required a fresh install of Windows 11+ on the RIP computer, newest Onyx version and a couple patches after that, and a firmware update on the plotters. Now most days the plotters run roll-to-roll barcode jobs without errors.... but they usually require a reboot each every couple days and we still get occasional "unable to read barcode" or "unable to connect to cut server" errors; those usually go away after another try or two of the exact same thing. Never had any luck with the thumb drive method.

 

[JBurton]

So, any chance to put a pc out there, or is that a nonstarter?
I'm really surprised the plotter itself will make the adjustments necessary for a crooked/stretched print, but as I think about it I don't know if the pc or the plotter makes those calculations when it's traditionally set up. It's not surprising that the machine can do it, more than they would put enough electronics for it to do it without adding too much cost. Then again the unit is probably spec'd for 'office use', so it may be susceptible to moisture and dust as a trade off to using more expensive parts. Is this in a totally uncontrolled area of your shop?

Had to pull this out of the service manual oddly enough.

 

[jfiscus]

If the plotter is having troubles just reading the barcodes, and you are doing everything manually correct as far as loading the vinyl and positioning the head, then the fix is to adjust the scan mode for that condition so that it can read it easier. I know we use a different scan mode for reflective than we do for regular vinyl.

 

[richsweeney]

I am very surprised you have to use a thumb drive at all. If the machine is newer that 2010, spend the $300 for the network port. Also make sure you have at least .5 inches above the bar code on material. The other thing that helps is when you load your material roll it to the half way point, and then line it up on the nearest mark. It took me a year and several hours of tech support to get that lesson. We use oynx and can cut direct from illustrator from any machine on the network. And for sure stop using that stupid thumb drive, so 90's

 

[richsweeney]

I would also add get of rid of cor-hell. Hire a IT person to get your graphtec on the net work.

 

[JBurton]

for sure stop using that stupid thumb drive, so 90's

Close, but no cigar. You'd be talking floppy disks in the 90's, flash drives didn't arrive until 2000 or so, and even then you could only hope the pc had a universal serial port expansion card installed and an os that supported them.