Need to outgas?????

[TheLairdGuy]

Hey Digital Designs, congratulations on being a new signmaker! Hopefully you like the field.

As far as outgassing is concerned: I can see how there might be some uncertainty regarding "the answer" to this question. There's a lot of successful people on here who might do things differently and still get fanstastic results for satisfied customers.

The reality is that this issue is less about a yes/no decision, and more about finding the right spot along a gradient. I have customers who have never outgassed and have yet to have a problem; I've also had customers who didn't outgas and it cost them time, money, and eventually customers. There's a wide variety of variables from the inks, to the media, to the printers, etc. so it can be difficult to really nail down when the issue happens.

I can say that the higher quantities of solvents you apply to the ink, the more likely it is that you will have a problem if you DON'T outgas.

Seems like the question you have to ask yourself is this: "How much will it save me if I choose not to outgas and it goes perfectly? and conversely "How much will it cost me if I choose not to outgas and it goes wrong?" If you get great results currently, then whatever it is you are doing, keep doing it. Just be aware of the risks if you move into unfamiliar territory as you progress in your career.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Lam too soon = silvering (microscopic bubbles between vinyl and lam) and more aggressive adhesive. That's what I've been told, and it matches exactly what I've experienced.
So can I speak for everyone...no.
Ask yourself this, what does it benefit a manufacturer to require it to outgas if it didn't do anything?

 

[MikePro]

lam too soon = mushy graphic to apply. be fighting wrinkles allday.
also, playing around when we first got the printer, we did print/cut/fullcoverage and pulled laminate off with the premask.

 

[Matt-Tastic]

The simple fact is you've been doing it fine for 2 years with no returns or reprints, why change now? If you want to wait, you're not going to hurt anything, and overall its not a bad idea to wait SOME time regardless. I'm sure you have something else to work on while that print does its thing.

And, not to hijack, but you actually should wait with UV prints as well. The UV process is partly the lamps baking the ink, but it also causes a chemical reaction that completes over several hours. the top layer has started (and mostly finished) the reaction, but the ink between that and the media is still curing. You will notice quite a difference in durability between a fresh print and a day old print.

 

[ironchef]

Makes sense, in cooking, lets say baking a cake... The batter on top will cook first and harden, while the middle is still raw.

 

[GAC05]

Makes sense, in cooking, lets say baking a cake... The batter on top will cook first and harden, while the middle is still raw.

Yeah but if you run that cake through your laminator it won't really matter if you do it right away or wait for it to outgas......

wayne k
guam usa

 

[john1]

I laminate right out of the printer, No issues here but i don't do wraps either. I am sure if it was a full coverage sheet, mounting would be harder vs waiting a few hours.

 

[ironchef]

Lol

 

[DIGITAL DESIGNS]

Thank you for the insight on this... Everyone!! I think we will keep doing what we are doing, but once we move into wrapping or more full coverage panels we will let sit for a while.

Thanks again!!!!

 

[neil_se]

We did experience failures with wraps and one-way visions when not allowed to degas sufficiently, we don't take our chances with those (not a problem any more with our latex).

 

[Zakk]

Am I the only one who actually lets the ink outgas for 24 hours before laminating on wraps? I believe that out-gassing is important, but it is the time I am wondering about. Assuming we are talking about wraps (not signs or something flat or cheap) would anyone here say that it makes a difference if you outgas for 8, 12, or 24 hours?

I have heard that if you do not let the material outgas properly with solvent inks, the ink can migrate backwards and compromise the adhesive (obviously an issue), but also can burn an image in the clearcoat (like mnapuran mentioned). Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

We have definitely seen silvering from immediate lamination, but I have never even tried a wrap without outgassing for a minimum of 12, but usually 24 hours. I would hate to have to re-do a job or have to have someones clearcoat fixed to save a few hours of drying time.

I would assume that a lot depends on not only the ink, but also the coverage (as mentioned a few times here) as well as the lam and the print media. I would guess that some lam may let some solvents escape (and some more then other lams at that). After all, why would it only be able to migrate through print media and not through lamination? Just a thought.

 

[Wraptrick]

If given the choice, I always like to outgas my prints (especially wrap prints) overnight. I find that prints not given the chance to dry thoroughly make the vinyl softer, which requires more care to wrap correctly. Aside from it being a tad more difficult to work with, I have never seen a wrap fail or otherwise due to not outgassing for the recommended time.

 

[MikeH]

We did testing on laminating inkjets in the 90s and found relative humidity was a big factor. Now I know things have changed and the technology is now varied but some things hold true. It would be interesting if we knew the average humidity in the shops that laminate within say 30 minutes with no problems, compared to the shops that do not/cannot.

 

[BigJerm]

I have a question that is related to this thread. Does the gassing process still take place if the printed material is still on a roll or is it a MUST to lay out your prints in order for them to get the O² needed to start the gassing process?

Sent from my Moto E (4) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[papabud]

out gassing will take place even on a roll.
it does it even after being laminated. this is what causes a lot of your bubbles
since the gas doesnt have anywhere to escape to
.

 

[AKwrapguy]

I have only been signmaking for two years now and have just recently heard that you should not laminate or cut printed vinyl for at minium 12hrs or reccommended 24 hours. Is this true?

I use a mutoh eco solvent printer. I have had not a single complaint, nor have I seen an issue. Please explain to me how important this is. All the videos I watch on you tube etc do not let it out gas.

Any thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I think that gerber makes a pearl like foil and/or over lam that you can use to achieve something close to what your looking for.

*sorry wrong thread

 

[AKwrapguy]

I have only been signmaking for two years now and have just recently heard that you should not laminate or cut printed vinyl for at minium 12hrs or reccommended 24 hours. Is this true?

I use a mutoh eco solvent printer. I have had not a single complaint, nor have I seen an issue. Please explain to me how important this is. All the videos I watch on you tube etc do not let it out gas.

Any thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Yes you should let it out gass. The amount of time depends on your set up, coverage and amount of ink but I think for most solvent or eco-solvent they say to wait at least 8-12 hours.

 

[Shaun S]

I think this is very subjective and is more pushed by material manufacturers to cover their butts. I've even had a rep for Transferrite tell us that we need to allow our UV prints to gas for 24 hours in order for their tape to work better lol. It's really going to depend on your climate, shop conditions, heater settings, etc. I would say to let solvent prints sit for 24 hours "when you can." If you are sending jobs out without waiting (like plenty of people on here do) with no issues...don't change what you're doing.

 

[Johnny Best]

This is a 2012 post and it still gets answers and ideas!