hi guys i just got an order for an out door illuminated sign... i was wondering if for the frame if i should go with aluminum or steel. its 7 feet by 5 feet and double sided.. and what is a good sign board to use! i want the light to shine through nice but not be compoletly transparent as well.. its going to have to be red for a back round color...
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- Thread starter AiA
- Start date
Arlo Kalon 2.0
New Member
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Signguyno1
New Member
I think I have to agree by the sound of some of your questions.
I have to agree with Arlo and Gino as well. This is a dangerous avenue to take with little knowledge.
TheSnowman
New Member
ok let me illuminate a little more on the subject.. i got out of this industry about 8 years ago and i worked it for about 5 years back then... i am qualified... i may be a little behind the times on latest materials... and as for the steel or aluminum question.. everything i ever did was steel cause that was the way to go back then.. aluminum has come along way in price and ease of working. so i belive i will be going with aluminum.... but you guys have to admit.. substrate material has come along way! and just getting an opinion on the best one that is made now... i am here to learn.. but i made out door signs for 5 years... and as far as pricing goes.. it materials plus my hourly rate... i am upfront and honest with my customers... they pay for my time... and i hand them a detailed bill along with recipts for materials.. i appreciate your comentarty but lets keep it directed towards help and not critucisum.. of the multiple questions i have asked you guys have answered none, and i understand that was out of concern... but how bought we answer the questions then offer our concerns and who knows... maybe even some help.
Billct2
Active Member
Well since you've been out of it for awhile, the first thing you should check is the regulations regarding electric signs in the town where it's going. Many now require UL listed boxes. As for construction, depends on how it will be installed. Most of the time we use extruded aluminum cabinets, but it may require a steel frame at that size.
For faces that big lexan or flex face, although the design and decoration method may influence that.
For faces that big lexan or flex face, although the design and decoration method may influence that.
its going to be digital print. so i think good old lexan would be my choice as well... and all the lettering is in side the logo except for open 24 hours under it which will be in the matching black and sliver that the logo has in it... i was thinking going with the aluminum and just making sure i am properly braced and use proper size gusets. my main question was for the substrate.. and i agree with lexan.. if any one else has a better suggestion i am all ears.. and i will post finished pictures for you guys.. lets hope i have not forgoten to much.. and up here we only need a standard sign permit.. the pole is already there and wired and was in use 3 months ago... so i should be ok with that aspect. Thanks for your help guys
wildside
New Member
for back lit signs there are really only three substrates
acrylic
lexan
flex face
acrylic is not the way to go
lexan is ideal- at that size you better go with a pan face, unless you are using hangers and then flat would be fine as long as the cabinet is thick enough to not get "hot spots" from the lamps
flex face is the best - in my opinion
all will depend on the install, the cabinet structure, and how you priced it, the shop down the street put coro in a back lit sign, because the alumalite they used first didn't light up
acrylic
lexan
flex face
acrylic is not the way to go
lexan is ideal- at that size you better go with a pan face, unless you are using hangers and then flat would be fine as long as the cabinet is thick enough to not get "hot spots" from the lamps
flex face is the best - in my opinion
all will depend on the install, the cabinet structure, and how you priced it, the shop down the street put coro in a back lit sign, because the alumalite they used first didn't light up
mbarden
New Member
Why on earth would you show what your materials cost to your customer? You are doing yourself and every other sign person a dis-service. There is absolutley nothing unethical about making a percentage on the materials that you handle. You have costs associated with obtaining the proper materials for the job. Please charge for that!!!!!
MB
MB
cgsigns_jamie
New Member
You could also use an Acrylic Pan Face. Then you don't have to worry about the face "yellowing" over time...
Also ditto what mbarden said ... mark up your materials, you'll be doing everyone and yourself a favor by doing so. I've never heard of anyone selling materials to the customer at cost and only charging for the labor...
Also ditto what mbarden said ... mark up your materials, you'll be doing everyone and yourself a favor by doing so. I've never heard of anyone selling materials to the customer at cost and only charging for the labor...
Thanks for all your help, i never heard of flex face... i am going to have to do some research. as for why i let people know what i pay for materials... the reason is i dont sell materials.. i sell my time and knowledge and my ability to use my tools... i charge an hourly fee depending on what the job is and what tools i will need to be using... as far as marking somthing up just cause i know where to buy it, i dont like.. Thanks MY opinion and MY right... I did not ask how to bill some one. nor do i need your opinion... and as far as i am doing other sign makers an injustice.... well... if you do quality work you should have no problem getting buisness... i dont undersell any one.. that is why i have an hourly rate.. its fair, its honest, and no one is screwig any one.. if you dont like that its not my problem.. people like you are the reason people like me have work... so thanks!!!!:U Rock:
TheSnowman
New Member
Well, rather you want peoples opinion or not, your going to get it when you are hurting yourself and EVERYONE ELSE in the industry by not marking up your materials. I have a hard time believing that you did this 8 years, and never charged anything above your cost for materials. There's going to be many other posts telling you the exact same thing everyone else has. Why would you EVER leave money on the table?
Oh, and you aren't underselling, your GIVING them a wholesale price, so you aren't even in the retail business at that point.
Oh, and you aren't underselling, your GIVING them a wholesale price, so you aren't even in the retail business at that point.
i worked for some one, now i am on my own.. and belive me my labor rate compensates material markup. I dont leave money on the table.. i do a good job at a good price and 90% of my jobs are referal based... and i always get quotes from 3 other places to make sure i am in the proper priceing range... but i dont see a need to run a well dry when there is so much repeat buisness between signs, shirts, cars, specials, banners and so on.... i keep it honest and in a format that allows my customers to know i am honest and that they are getting what they pay for.. so you guys can comment all you want.. but to me thats a waste of time and forum space... this sight is to help, not critisise or maybe im wrong... but if this is how posts go ill make sure only to ask help when i ABSOLUTLY need it... it will save us all alot of time. i know its a tough concept but what the hell is wrong with being honest any way.. im sure i am opening up a can of worms with that statement... but why not charge a higher labor rate for a service that is time consuming and requires a lot of knowledge and tallent.. rather than pawning your self off at a lower labor rate and marking up materials? i am a small one man operation.. not a store or distributor i dont stock materials.. there is no storage or stocking fees.. i dont sell raw material to the public.. I make signs and hang them when nessacary... i see nothing wrong with what i am doing... and i am getting tired of this topic.. i hope i have answered all your questions (or criticisms) to your satisfaction..
S
SignTech
Guest
Scranton ............ ??? LOL .............. c'mon .......... you can't be serious. Seriously ...... LOL ............... OMG ........... what the hell is going in this area ............
No wonder this industry is getting F(*&ed .............
No wonder this industry is getting F(*&ed .............