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[ColesCreations]

Talking about honesty:

You say "I always get quotes from 3 other places"... Do you tell them you are a sign shop that needs help in giving a customer a price quote (being honest); or do you pretend you are a customer wanting a sign (stealing time from a fellow signmaker, and the worst kind of dishonesty imagineable)?

As for marking up.... Do you think a plumber, carpenter, car mechanic, hvac tech etc just hands the customer the bill from wherever they bought the parts?

If you order and pay the stuff, mark it up. Even if you show the customer what you paid, most will agree to a markup, as long as it is a reasonable amount that reflects how much money it cost, or the time to handle the items. What if you have to buy a roll of media to do a 3' sign?

If the customer orders / buys it himself, it's another story.

 

[Checkers]

as for why i let people know what i pay for materials... the reason is i dont sell materials.. i sell my time and knowledge and my ability to use my tools...

Man, you might as well close your shop, get a job and start sending all of us here your paycheck because this is a recipe for failure.
Material mark ups are necessary to maintain a profitable business!

Anyway, there are many ways you can go about this, the easiest way would be to subcontract the job to a wholesale sign company. Add your profit margin to your cost and install it for a fee.

Another option is to purchase a knock-down kit from a sign supplier, Add your profit margin, assemble it and install it for a fee. Do a search, there's a "how to" around here somewhere.

The last option would be to buy all of the raw materials, build the sign and install it. Then take all of your costs, add your profit margin and invoice the client.And yes, you need to do a lot of homework if this is how you plan to do business. Once again, use the search button and you'll discover a weath of information here on how to make money.

Checkers

 

[skyhigh]

This guy is just pushing buttons. I wouldn't be surprised if he is one of the regulars, under a fictitious name.

 

[AiA]

not a ficticious name.... THIS IS NOT MY FIRST SIGN I EVER BUILT.. i was looking for suggestions on substrate and some how we got here... THIS WOULD BE THE 4TH business i have ever owned... and i still own 3!!!! I DONT KNOW HOW I CAN SAY THIS ANY CLEARER. how much i make and why i make it is not a topic of the thread.... in fact its not any topic i am going to discuss... I'll be in business for as long as i choose and i promise you.... i do nothing for free... and i have always made a damn good living... and YES I DO TELL THEM I AM ANOTHER SIGN MAKER! most of them i have none on some level and i do sub them work!!!! SO KEEP TALKING ABOUT THINGS YOU DONT KNOW ALL THE DETAILS ON... THAT MAKES THIS WHAT? 5TH GRADE. COME ON GUYS I ASKED FOR HELP ON A FRAMING MATERIAL AND SUBSTRATE.. TRYING TO GET SOME g.d. SUGGESTIONS TO MAKE THE BEST SIGN POSSABLE FOR MY CUSTOMER AND NOW I AM PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE????? I cant see me sticking around this place much longer... some people need a life..

 

[petepaz]

How did you price this job without knowing how you were building it?

 

[SignTech]

not a ficticious name.... THIS IS NOT MY FIRST SIGN I EVER BUILT.. i was looking for suggestions on substrate and some how we got here... THIS WOULD BE THE 4TH business i have ever owned... and i still own 3!!!! I DONT KNOW HOW I CAN SAY THIS ANY CLEARER. how much i make and why i make it is not a topic of the thread.... in fact its not any topic i am going to discuss... I'll be in business for as long as i choose and i promise you.... i do nothing for free... and i have always made a damn good living... and YES I DO TELL THEM I AM ANOTHER SIGN MAKER! most of them i have none on some level and i do sub them work!!!! SO KEEP TALKING ABOUT THINGS YOU DONT KNOW ALL THE DETAILS ON... THAT MAKES THIS WHAT? 5TH GRADE. COME ON GUYS I ASKED FOR HELP ON A FRAMING MATERIAL AND SUBSTRATE.. TRYING TO GET SOME g.d. SUGGESTIONS TO MAKE THE BEST SIGN POSSABLE FOR MY CUSTOMER AND NOW I AM PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE????? I cant see me sticking around this place much longer... some people need a life..

Well being about 5 MILES from you it is YOU or YOUR business model that is ruining this industry and sign companies locally.

Your building sign boxes on poles and have no clue which materials are which.

Then you are low balling because YOU have no overhead.

I even gave you great advise on one of your first posts ........... stay away from electrical signage in the Scranton area ......... there are a few companies that are real good at it up there ... sub out to them ..........

Look Mr. Used car salesman ........ your intension's are great I'm sure ...... but your adding to demise of this industry.

Normaly I get along with my direct competition ......... but the ones popping up around here are getting silly.

 

[TheSnowman]

I felt that I needed a corndog now too.

 

[AiA]

wow.... pay attentions mister 5 miles away... I AM NOT A NOVICE MAKING ELECTRICAL SIGNS.... i was only curious to what new materials where avalable since i have not watched the market in some time.... and as for what i am charging people... Ya know what pm me with your phone number.. you have an industry problem with what i am doing come down.. ill show you the estimate, ill show you my work... than you can report back to your little clan here THAT I AM NOT HURTING ANY ONE and i am good at what i do.. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!! can you guys have a more ignorant uniformed opinion!!!! i asked for help.. and this is what i get.. any one in the area.. PM me i have nothing to hide.. .come on down... im done with the forum... see ya all.

 

[Neon RTG]

I have a question.....
- How can you have been in the sign business back a few years and never heard of Flexfaces? (AiI qutoe..."i never heard of flex face... i am going to have to do some research"
I am sure I will have more later.

 

[WILLIAMS]

not a ficticious name....

again with the spelling... then again who am i? i only own 3 businesses...

 

[skyhigh]

you waste alot of time typing when all you need to do is call Pioneer supply or N.Glantz. They both deliver in your area (and both in business 10 years ago).

Again...Unless one of your other businesses is in the electrical field (and your UL listed) then don't waste your time pricing out extrusion.

 

[Gino]

IS THERE A DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE ??????????

This guy is gonna blow a gasket and doesn't even know it.​

Calm down there sparky............... you're only hurting yourself.

No one is doubting your credentials, but your method of doing business are not that of this industry.... nor any other industry or trade.

Your little idea to be fair and honest to everyone [customers] and remain profitable is only something that you're arguing about inside your own head. These posts so far have only been suggestions.... PLEASE for cripe's sake.... if you don't want to listen or evaluate them... DON'T. But crying about all this guilt and crap is just going to give you a heart attack and we don't want anyone keeling over because he can't get his way with the way the answers float in to ya.

If you don't like something. Let it alone or go home, but don't condemn all of us because not a single person agrees with your novel idea.







.

 

[AiA]

wow... it was all acrylic and lexan at the company i worked for... but since i am on trial.. your all right... i am now canceling my membership here... good luck to the worlds perfect sign makers hmmm... now that i think about it... you guys cant be that good if all you have time for is to cut down the new guy on an internet forum designed to help other sign makers... .... but to my locals... ill be sure to under sell all of you guys... in fact... i may make it a personal goal.... oh wait. im an adult... im going to keep doing what i am doing... a good job at a great price... and to the mods and admins... you need to get a grip on your sight... i came looking for help in a material choice and i came looking for knowledge... and i got attacked for how i run my business? Of all the forums i belong to (motorcycles, saltwater fish, electronics, german cars, computers, etc.) THIS would be my FIRST BAD EXPERIENCE! and it only took you guys what 4 days? maybe a few more but come on... i have posted 2 threads and you guys are attacking me? and there where about help with a job?!?!?!?!? nothing off topic?!?!?!?!?! i thought i found a great web sight here.. how ever i did meet 2 local guys that are great! and for that i got more than i thought i could out of this sight... so rather than take the good with the bad.. im just taking the good leaving... remember... P.M. me and ill be happy to show you what i charge and the work i do.. but unless you like the taste of toe jam.. (putting your foot in your mouth) i would avoid that avenue.. good day all.... :iamwithstupid

 

[AiA]

actually sky high... i dont need a ul sticker.. talked to my lawyer and the president of the local union... as long as what i use is UL listed than i am fine and i have to have the unit inspected when finished... (but never asked about that) and never once did i open the door to how i run my business... that is not what this is about.. i asked a question, and got what 30 replys... 3 helping me!!!!! so dont tell me to relax... i dont have an issue! about 10+ people on here are telling me that i cant run a business when there making there assumptions of absolutly no factual basis.. but if they need to cut down the new guy to feel good then so be it... I HAVE SAID SEVERAL TIMES THIS TOPIC NEEDS TO END. but i will defend myself always in every situation when i am being attacked.. and to Gino i appreciate your sentiments but re-read the whole thread and tell me i have not been attacked for no reason.... i really no longer care to participate in this forum... sorry.. but i am done.

 

[SignTech]

but to my locals... ill be sure to under sell all of you guys... in fact... i may make it a personal goal....

Only works in the short term. Never long term ... good luck.

We've been undersold many times and have corrected many mistakes customers came to us with from the same under seller/bidder.

You come across pretty threatening ....... are you threatening my lively hood? Family? Business? in the area?

 

[AiA]

wow! perfect example... you only copyed half my post... if you can read.. i said wait i am an adult and will keep doing what i am doing.. meaning your not worth my time.. and bud please dont open the door to threats... IT WILL NOT WORK OUT WELL FOR YOU... son of a bitch i am amazed at the childishness of some of the people on here... Grow up people.. and for the record no one.... NO ONE... NONE OF THESE BIG MOUTHS HAS P.M.ED me yet.... i am willing to put my cards on the table... BUT NO ONE HAS done anything but talk.... god.... this is lame.... any one else agree....

 

[skyhigh]

...i dont need a ul sticker.. talked to my lawyer and the president of the local union... as long as what i use is UL listed than i am fine and i have to have the unit inspected when finished (but never asked about that).

I know you didn't ask, just trying to help (although you don't see it that way). And your lawyer & UWhatever are wrong (unless you asked them 10 years ago). Using UL components dosen't mean the cabinet YOU fabricate is good to go, and dosen't need a label.

EDIT TO SAY: As long as your panties are allready in a bunch, let me tell you this... While you've taken a sabbatical from the sign business over the last 10 years, this is what I do for a living every day. Please don't attempt to tell ME what the laws are. Your lawyer is a shmuck.

 

[AiA]

once again... not reading what i posted and still commenting... all electronics must be UL and when the unit is finished... IT MUST BE INSPECTED!!!!!!!!!!!! wow...... and for patty.... well you said it all genius.. and if you all want the thread to end... THEN STOP POSTING. but as long as i am being attacked ill defend... HAHA you guys are just entertaining at this point...

 

[signage]

AiA your attorney and who ever else told you that (UL) are not correct! Using UL parts doesn't mean UL approved! Go to the UL website an look into it! Hope the attorney is related to you if you would get caught it may cost you a lot for legal fees!

 

[signage]

The inspection in PA isn't for UL it is for NEC!

 

[Kottwitz-Graphics]

actually sky high... i dont need a ul sticker.. talked to my lawyer and the president of the local union... as long as what i use is UL listed than i am fine and i have to have the unit inspected when finished...

Yeah, good luck with that. I read on the post this morning, and almost posted, but you contiune to post, and I can't ignore anymore.

First question that I have is, you say you worked at a sign company for what 5 years, some 8 years ago? I know that flex faces were in use over 14 years ago, because I worked at a sign company that used mostly flex faces.

As far as marking up materials, you have to do that to cover overhead. Everybody knows that when you buy something from a company, it has been marked up. That is how companys make money, and stay in buisness year after year. You handle the materials, you have to make something on them.

And as far as the statement about not needing UL stickers because the components are UL is just wrong. You can take a UL ballast, and UL sockets, and UL blulbs, wire it all wrong, and it won't be UL.