New Océ Colorado 1640

[nate]

Did anyone buy one? How much was it offered for at the show ?

It's not on sale until Mid May. Some early deliveries but mostly shipping in September.

 

[nate]

Most people who would buy a Colorado already have other printers, it's a production machine. Like us for example already have latex, it wouldn't be going anywhere the Oce would just be filling a production void.

Exactly. This isn't to compete with a Roland or a HP Latex 110. I spent a good deal of time with this machine across multiple days and it is a game changer. We're in line for one as soon as it is released en mass.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Exactly. This isn't to compete with a Roland or a HP Latex 110. I spent a good deal of time with this machine across multiple days and it is a game changer. We're in line for one as soon as it is released en mass.

We have a meeting Friday with VP of Sales for OCE Friday, we have a few questions before we commit as we want to verify a few things that were mentioned to make sure it's optimal to buy now or later.

 

[BigfishDM]

Most people who would buy a Colorado already have other printers, it's a production machine. Like us for example already have latex, it wouldn't be going anywhere the Oce would just be filling a production void.

I had a great talk with Cannon after they saw one of my posts, after having the conversation, I do

Exactly. This isn't to compete with a Roland or a HP Latex 110. I spent a good deal of time with this machine across multiple days and it is a game changer. We're in line for one as soon as it is released en mass.

You are 100% on that one! Maybe more of a go between on the 500 series to the 1500 series. Were they able to show you how the tray system worked? I couldn't get them to make that happen, great concept though. Were you there when it crashed the first day of the show? (That's not a knock either, we had our first Latex unit go down on the first day of the show last year)

At the Tubelite booth, once they said $58k many people turned and simply walked away, this is geared for larger shops looking to do mass production on specific applications. I came out pretty hard against this one (Simply based on the demos I witnessed at ISA) after speaking with some others, I do see where a machine like this will fit. It just happens to be not my market at this time, I'm looking more at soft signage and wallpaper markets so I am not completely sold that this is the machine for that. Great backlit I saw though, great on banner too.

I am excited to see how these machines work for you guys, I would wait until SGIA to buy though.

 

[Bly]

Interested to know why it's a game changer.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Interested to know why it's a game changer.

It will offer the durability of UV ink, up to 6 times the speed of latex for similar quality, semi automatic loading with 2 to 4 roll capacity and white ink(possibly, now?)

 

[nate]

One thing I just thought of, with the new UVGel ink technology, will it have the usual tactile feel of UV ink? Because laminating prints off our Oce can be an issue due to ink thickness.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

It is very thin. Not like a normal UV unless you do the heavy saturation mode.

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

Is this new GelUV ink wrap capable?

In short, Not even close.

I’ve been following the technology and printer from last year.
It certainly ticked all my boxes, I so wanted it to deliver all it promised.

I went to PacPrint expressly to see it in action and hopefully place an order.
My partner wanted me to sign up on the Day.
Still, best not to rush a purchase I reckon.

It's fast, accurate, really easy to load and operate, the colour is good but not equal to the OKI M64s.
It's beautifully built.
Imagine my extreme disappointment when we stretched (only about 20%) the SAV decal samples to discover….
How easily the ink cracked, and then scratched off as if it were never there.
Even worse, once vinyl prints are stretched a little, a laminate will peel it straight off.

Turns out the Colorado is just another roll to roll UV printer (with a nice smooth finish).

Completely unsuitable as a general vinyl signage printer, let alone Wraps, without a major ink chemistry rethink.

Wow, what a disappointment.

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

In short, Not even close.

I’ve been following the technology and printer from last year.
It certainly ticked all my boxes, I so wanted it to deliver all it promised.

I went to PacPrint expressly to see it in action and hopefully place an order.
My partner wanted me to sign up on the Day.
Still, best not to rush a purchase I reckon.

It's fast, accurate, really easy to load and operate, the colour is good but not equal to the OKI M64s.
It's beautifully built.
Imagine my extreme disappointment when we stretched (only about 20%) the SAV decal samples to discover….
How easily the ink cracked, and then scratched off as if it were never there.
Even worse, once vinyl prints are stretched a little, a laminate will peel it straight off.

Wow, what a disappointment.

Turns out the Colorado is just another roll to roll UV printer (with a nice smooth finish).

Completely unsuitable as a general vinyl signage printer, let alone Wraps, without a major ink chemistry rethink.

Wow, what a disappointment.

To be fair, please Canon find a solution - I'm still really keen.
I love the speed, colour, and reliability of our 3 OKI's, but a Colorado would save me hours every day.

 

[BigfishDM]

In short, Not even close.

I’ve been following the technology and printer from last year.
It certainly ticked all my boxes, I so wanted it to deliver all it promised.

I went to PacPrint expressly to see it in action and hopefully place an order.
My partner wanted me to sign up on the Day.
Still, best not to rush a purchase I reckon.

It's fast, accurate, really easy to load and operate, the colour is good but not equal to the OKI M64s.
It's beautifully built.
Imagine my extreme disappointment when we stretched (only about 20%) the SAV decal samples to discover….
How easily the ink cracked, and then scratched off as if it were never there.
Even worse, once vinyl prints are stretched a little, a laminate will peel it straight off.

Turns out the Colorado is just another roll to roll UV printer (with a nice smooth finish).

Completely unsuitable as a general vinyl signage printer, let alone Wraps, without a major ink chemistry rethink.

Wow, what a disappointment.

You are not the only one with an opinion like this, it's probably going to be a great banner machine though! I have been speaking to literally dozens of the largest companies in the industry and they LOVE the way it looks and the IDEA behind the technology but they are going to wait and see if they ever do WHITE ink like they stated in the beginning and also are going to wait on a larger model to be launched. There are always bugs with new technology and I am sure there will be issues with this as well, just how latex has improved I am sure Cannon will continue to improve.

For the companies that run equipment from OCE/Cannon how is the service and support been through the years? I have heard so many horror stories with that, I know people are going through some nasty service issues with HP at the moment but I think that stems from too many sales and not enough trained techs are being added fast enough but for the most part the service with HP has been pretty excellent. (Not talking about the ones in here currently having issues obviously)

 

[Pauly]

In short, Not even close.

I’ve been following the technology and printer from last year.
It certainly ticked all my boxes, I so wanted it to deliver all it promised.

I went to PacPrint expressly to see it in action and hopefully place an order.
My partner wanted me to sign up on the Day.
Still, best not to rush a purchase I reckon.

It's fast, accurate, really easy to load and operate, the colour is good but not equal to the OKI M64s.
It's beautifully built.
Imagine my extreme disappointment when we stretched (only about 20%) the SAV decal samples to discover….
How easily the ink cracked, and then scratched off as if it were never there.
Even worse, once vinyl prints are stretched a little, a laminate will peel it straight off.

Turns out the Colorado is just another roll to roll UV printer (with a nice smooth finish).

Completely unsuitable as a general vinyl signage printer, let alone Wraps, without a major ink chemistry rethink.

Wow, what a disappointment.

You are not the only one with an opinion like this, it's probably going to be a great banner machine though! I have been speaking to literally dozens of the largest companies in the industry and they LOVE the way it looks and the IDEA behind the technology but they are going to wait and see if they ever do WHITE ink like they stated in the beginning and also are going to wait on a larger model to be launched. There are always bugs with new technology and I am sure there will be issues with this as well, just how latex has improved I am sure Cannon will continue to improve.

For the companies that run equipment from OCE/Cannon how is the service and support been through the years? I have heard so many horror stories with that, I know people are going through some nasty service issues with HP at the moment but I think that stems from too many sales and not enough trained techs are being added fast enough but for the most part the service with HP has been pretty excellent. (Not talking about the ones in here currently having issues obviously)

Ok i was at PacPrint also. As some know, i am very close with most of the guys from canon.. Well Oce.
I got the full run down on the Colorado, saw it in action and all.
It is not "another uv printer" as you'd believe it is. The gel technology is quite amazing i must admit. It puts any roll printer its size to shame. 610sqft/hour or 1700sqft/hour at it's fastest (throwaway outdoor stuff) It's seriously fast.
It's designed for banners, popups ect. Yes it can print on vinyl. but it's not designed for car graphics.. I.e stretching ect. Fleet graphics (trucks, vans ect) yes.
From what i was told, the car wrap industry don't need a printer that can print at this volume and most are happy with what they currently use and what is currently out there now.

Would i buy one. Absolutely. But... when they make a larger one. IMO the size is to small for me as i already can do that size as good speeds.
I told them this also, if i could get something along the lines of a 3000mm wide machine, i'd probably get one.

As for Oce support. I can only speak for Australia. They're outstanding. any time i've had an issue, they're right behind me, standing by their product. Not once have they said "ah well, bad luck"

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

Which is why we've kept running the Seiko/OKI printers.
The M64s's have been a revelation; inexpensive, speed with colour, simple design, so reliable and easy to load.
Latex just can't hit the colours (even the new 500 series) unless they are run hilariously slowly, and the loading system is ridiculously complex.
The cheapest Latex with an acceptable (still not great) speed/colour trade off close to the OKI's is the 1500 series, but at over $260k ?

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

Ok i was at PacPrint also. As some know, i am very close with most of the guys from canon.. Well Oce.
I got the full run down on the Colorado, saw it in action and all.
It is not "another uv printer" as you'd believe it is. The gel technology is quite amazing i must admit. It puts any roll printer its size to shame. 610sqft/hour or 1700sqft/hour at it's fastest (throwaway outdoor stuff) It's seriously fast.
It's designed for banners, popups ect. Yes it can print on vinyl. but it's not designed for car graphics.. I.e stretching ect. Fleet graphics (trucks, vans ect) yes.
From what i was told, the car wrap industry don't need a printer that can print at this volume and most are happy with what they currently use and what is currently out there now.

Would i buy one. Absolutely. But... when they make a larger one. IMO the size is to small for me as i already can do that size as good speeds.
I told them this also, if i could get something along the lines of a 3000mm wide machine, i'd probably get one.

As for Oce support. I can only speak for Australia. They're outstanding. any time i've had an issue, they're right behind me, standing by their product. Not once have they said "ah well, bad luck"

Fleet Graphics? Errrr..... No.

I'm not a big operator, only + or - 100 metres / day, but Durable Fleet graphics (not wraps) account for most of my volume.
A laminated print from the Colorado will fail applied over a simple rivet, we've tried it.
The ink stretches a little, cracks slightly, then the laminate lifts it off.

Paul Salmon is a really nice bloke.
I still keep in touch with most of the old Anitech guys, but I get the feeling pressure is being applied by Canon bean counters to get the machine into the market and start getting a return before it's fully sorted.

Still, they wouldn't be orphans there.

 

[Pauly]

Fleet Graphics? Errrr..... No.

I'm not a big operator, only + or - 100 metres / day, but Durable Fleet graphics (not wraps) account for most of my volume.
A laminated print from the Colorado will fail applied over a simple rivet, we've tried it.
The ink stretches a little, cracks slightly, then the laminate lifts it off.

Paul Salmon is a really nice bloke.
I still keep in touch with most of the old Anitech guys, but I get the feeling pressure is being applied by Canon bean counters to get the machine into the market and start getting a return before it's fully sorted.

Still, they wouldn't be orphans there.

If you're applying fleet graphics on a, lets say truck or a van. why is there a need to stretch? It's a flat surface.

 

[Quark]

so the revolution has been postponed

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

I'm hearing this same thing from other early release people. That's concerning for us as our projects all touch vehicles and may enounter stretch.

 

[nate]

I'm hearing this same thing from other early release people. That's concerning for us as our projects all touch vehicles and may enounter stretch.

As I said in another thread we've got the paperwork with a tentative July delivery date. In the meantime we've purchased an additional 570 and are looking to get another in the next week for this very reason. We've yet to see the samples we're looking for to make sure our bases are covered.

 

[Pauly]

curious to see how it performs in a normal shop though. It would be a nice addition. But like i said, until they release another version, preferably wider like 3000mm i'd look at getting one.

 

[KEYSER SOZE]

If you're applying fleet graphics on a, lets say truck or a van. why is there a need to stretch? It's a flat surface.

Firstly, all large fleet graphics need to be able to expand and contract, particularly on aluminium B-Doubles.
High / Low ambient temperatures and vehicle load makes a big difference to panel size.
The vinyl and ink need to move with it on a continual basis.

Secondly, vans aren't flat.

Thirdly, many big vehicles graphics are profile cut after printing/laminating, the cut edges need to absolutely not de-laminate.

Fingers crossed Canon can get it sorted.

 

[Pauly]

Firstly, all large fleet graphics need to be able to expand and contract, particularly on aluminium B-Doubles.
High / Low ambient temperatures and vehicle load makes a big difference to panel size.
The vinyl and ink need to move with it on a continual basis.

Secondly, vans aren't flat.

Thirdly, many big vehicles graphics are profile cut after printing/laminating, the cut edges need to absolutely not de-laminate.

Fingers crossed Canon can get it sorted.

I believe they well. In the matter of a few years, they've released a few different inks for the Oce arizona. depending on application.
But as i've been told, it's not designed towards the graphic wrapping industry.
If you believe it wont work, or have tried with a sample ect. You should defiantly email them with results.

 

[BigfishDM]

As I said in another thread we've got the paperwork with a tentative July delivery date. In the meantime we've purchased an additional 570 and are looking to get another in the next week for this very reason. We've yet to see the samples we're looking for to make sure our bases are covered.

Did you ever get delivery of this game changing technology yet? I have reached out all over the world to find someone who has taken delivery but it appears no one has one yet. Should have some improvements/bugs worked out by ISA maybe. Just curious if you got yours yet and how it's working for ya.

 

[mu1638x]

I have seen this machine live and running. It is truly impressive. The automation to the capacity. On top of that the speed. Wait until you see the backlits. The color gamut is great. When you see the machine and how the ink works, you will understand why the ink cost is so low. PS. It is built like a tank.

Yes, the cost for ink is $120 for 1l bags and based on their coverage information the price per sq works out to that.

Yeah but 2 570s still have all the HP loading shortcoming and material issues, heat, no white and less speed.

With these we can load 2 300' rolls and it will automatically switch between them, and the print speed 3x+ faster for comparable print quality from everything I've physically seen. So that means it would run through the 2 rolls in about the same time as the 2 570s would run through 2 150' rolls. Don't get me wrong I'm a latex fan, but this is totally going to put HP on edge and if Oce can develope lower cost entry level printers HP has alot to worry about. I'm just tired of some of the productivity shortcomings on our HPs which in turn makes us inefficient, pair that with a warranty issue on my machine which has left a very bad taste in my mouth for HP currently, we actually cancelled our order for a 570 over it.

We're looking to replace our 3 Mutoh 1638x with HP570s but we can't get the HP to print the quality we need. We're printing 1080x1080 8 pass with 460 carriage speed on the Mutoh's. The HP can't match our quality at a 10 pass. The HP guys are trying to create a custom profile but can't match our current production quality. We run our Mutoh's 20 hours a day 6 days a week and need something reliable. Do you recommend the 1640 and do you have any issues with it?