New Print & Cut Hp!!

[BigfishDM]

Oce Colorado Gel Ink is a game changer. If it does all that's cliamed.

It's fast but what else does it do? What game does it change? What applications does it open up for the user? Why is it so expensive?

 

[BigfishDM]

I took a look at that design suite and it's beyond useless. Looks like HP is trying to get into the market as a service provider and skimming off the profits of small shops. They just so happen to sell printers and ink too. I love my latex printer, but I'm not diggin HP's business moves.

This is for startup companies that are not as educated in doing contour cutting, that's all basically. I thought it was really cool because I could relate to not knowing how to do it myself lol. Lots of people said the same thing but for smaller companies it is kinda cool.

 

[BigfishDM]

This is the one I will be getting once my latex stops working

I doubt it will still be around by the time your machine goes out. Lol unless it's the very first generation, we met a lot accounts still pounding away with the 25500 and loving it.

 

[BigfishDM]

I'm starting to see it this way... Their machines although was great for us to get started in this industry has helped the race to the bottom.

The Oce' Colorado looks to be for true production shops with much more advancements at a true industry price.

It is just the opposite, they are putting out equipment to grow the industry and the profibility for sign providers like yourself. The race to the bottom is done by you guys not the printer manufacturers, you guys cry over prices then HP makes something that address your problems and help put you in this industry. Companies like Grimco and fellers are what drives the market down also. When companies like IOM sell "cast" vinyl for like $100 a roll, what does that do to the market? When no one stands up to this Tom foolery its crazy. When you guys get together you have power in your numbers, you really do have the power to change the way the industry works but not many are trying in my opinion.

 

[BigfishDM]

Interesting news, but Still getting a Summa.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

It is just the opposite, they are putting out equipment to grow the industry and the profibility for sign providers like yourself. The race to the bottom is done by you guys not the printer manufacturers, you guys cry over prices then HP makes something that address your problems and help put you in this industry. Companies like Grimco and fellers are what drives the market down also. When companies like IOM sell "cast" vinyl for like $100 a roll, what does that do to the market? When no one stands up to this Tom foolery its crazy. When you guys get together you have power in your numbers, you really do have the power to change the way the industry works but not many are trying in my opinion.

Actually equipment manufactures are one of the leading contributions to the race to the bottom, when professional grade equipment can be had for $10k it make it easier for anyone to get in to, the more people in it drives down the price via saturation and underquoting. We as industry professionals have to make sure we maintain our price levels to combat that and let everyone else go out of business.

As for IOM they sell cast for $279 and it works, if you are trying to dig at me for undercutting by using IOM... Don't you have no clue what the majority of it is used for and in honesty because of changes on our end we can't use as much of it anymore. We have switched back to 3M due to client requirements.

The UVgel ink is not normal UV it doesn't smell, according to 4 people I spoke to at the show. And as for scratch testing did you physically try it? Because a HP dealer that was there did and said it was better than HP Latex when I asked. Why can't you print on the same materials as latex with this, they have me a canvas sample and a poly knit and it looks great.

 

[tomence]

I doubt it will still be around by the time your machine goes out. Lol unless it's the very first generation, we met a lot accounts still pounding away with the 25500 and loving it.

I am not saying i don't love the machine when it prints as it should but when it takes a crap then the problems are way bigger and more expensive when you have to fly in a tech to come out and replace parts once out of warranty.
Since day one I had problems with mine and to this day has not been printing like e new printer. I can't trust to print a whole roll without getting banding in the middle of it. While in warranty HP were replacing only print heads and nothing else, mostly the Cyan, once i got out of warranty and ask to replace the cyan all of a sudden my printer does not qualify for print head replacement but a tech should come out and replace all kinds of parts that were upwards of $3K. Why did not HP replace those parts while i was in warranty? They knew i had problem since day one with the Cyan print heads but all they did were replacing them 2-3 times a month.
Like I said once it's working it is a very good printer to have but if you have to spend thousands after the first year of ownership, not good.

I've had a converted Roland that was 15 years and sold it for $6K and the guy's is probably still using it, I had a second Roland which i bought brand new and had it for 3 years with no problems at all, had a Mimaki JV3 that was very old but reliable and printed without any hiccups, I bought the HP just because everyone was getting one so i did not want to get left behind the cool staff, and on top of that I paid premium when they were the most expensive I paid $16-17K and 3 months later this sucker gets lowered to $10K, That's $7000 that i've lost in 3 months.

So what did i gain buying this HP, you tell me, I am in the sign/vehicle wrap industry not in textile, so who cares if HP can print on textiles, most here on this forum don't care about textiles.

 

[BigfishDM]

I am not saying i don't love the machine when it prints as it should but when it takes a crap then the problems are way bigger and more expensive when you have to fly in a tech to come out and replace parts once out of warranty.
Since day one I had problems with mine and to this day has not been printing like e new printer. I can't trust to print a whole roll without getting banding in the middle of it. While in warranty HP were replacing only print heads and nothing else, mostly the Cyan, once i got out of warranty and ask to replace the cyan all of a sudden my printer does not qualify for print head replacement but a tech should come out and replace all kinds of parts that were upwards of $3K. Why did not HP replace those parts while i was in warranty? They knew i had problem since day one with the Cyan print heads but all they did were replacing them 2-3 times a month.
Like I said once it's working it is a very good printer to have but if you have to spend thousands after the first year of ownership, not good.

I've had a converted Roland that was 15 years and sold it for $6K and the guy's is probably still using it, I had a second Roland which i bought brand new and had it for 3 years with no problems at all, had a Mimaki JV3 that was very old but reliable and printed without any hiccups, I bought the HP just because everyone was getting one so i did not want to get left behind the cool staff, and on top of that I paid premium when they were the most expensive I paid $16-17K and 3 months later this sucker gets lowered to $10K, That's $7000 that i've lost in 3 months.

So what did i gain buying this HP, you tell me, I am in the sign/vehicle wrap industry not in textile, so who cares if HP can print on textiles, most here on this forum don't care about textiles.

If your buying equipment for the car wrap market, you are not thinking about the longevity of your business. That mar

Actually equipment manufactures are one of the leading contributions to the race to the bottom, when professional grade equipment can be had for $10k it make it easier for anyone to get in to, the more people in it drives down the price via saturation and underquoting. We as industry professionals have to make sure we maintain our price levels to combat that and let everyone else go out of business.

As for IOM they sell cast for $279 and it works, if you are trying to dig at me for undercutting by using IOM... Don't you have no clue what the majority of it is used for and in honesty because of changes on our end we can't use as much of it anymore. We have switched back to 3M due to client requirements.

The UVgel ink is not normal UV it doesn't smell, according to 4 people I spoke to at the show. And as for scratch testing did you physically try it? Because a HP dealer that was there did and said it was better than HP Latex when I asked. Why can't you print on the same materials as latex with this, they have me a canvas sample and a poly knit and it looks great.

I'm not taking a dig at you at all, you know me. I love hearing your opinions on everything! I was generalizing that's all. I totally see your side also.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

If your buying equipment for the car wrap market, you are not thinking about the longevity of your business. That mar


I'm not taking a dig at you at all, you know me. I love hearing your opinions on everything! I was generalizing that's all. I totally see your side also.

The whole thing that I see is now HP has really competition, I also have been speaking with Ricoh and it seems they will releasing a game changing latex 2 here in the next 12 months, it sounds like they have made some very real developments based on what these engineers have stated.

 

[nate]

The Colorado UV Gel is not that interesting, it's super fast but so many limitations. Smells, wouldn't run any soft fabrics, wouldn't do a scratch test, the price tag is too high. Great for banner and stickers but for $60k I am not sure what market it's attacking. Maybe as a go between from an HP 570 and an HP 1500. The industry is transitioning rapidly into soft signage and this wasn't what I was expecting from that machine. The markets that are growing faster then anything else, this machine is not good for. Can't do interior applications with the fumes of UV like wall graphics either. I'm sure it's great for something though.

This paragraph is full of mis information. I spent a great deal of time with Oce at ISA, but with Sal and the sales team as well as the product manager. They've said they got it certified for indoor hospital/food/etc. It's a much better solution than a 1500. In fact I doubt we'll be purchasing another 3100 even due to the speed/quality of prints. True it won't do full vehicle graphics with tight curves but it will do fleets which we do a lot of.

I know you're passionate about Latex-- and I am as well. But this is a game changer. In fact it cost you the sale of the 570 you have Dale? trying to get us to buy.

 

[nate]

lol what in the world would make you guys think that HP is up to some master plan to go direct?

Perfect example was Snapfish.com. HP directly competed with their customers until they sold it in 2015.

 

[tomence]

If your buying equipment for the car wrap market, you are not thinking about the longevity of your business. That mar

I have been doing pretty good for the last 9 years and my sales have been increasing from year to year consistently, so I must be doing something right. I don't do just wraps I do many other things associated with the sign industry. Why would or should i add an extra field that i have no knowledge of nor do i want to spend any time learning new things new markets. I am happy with what i do and even happier to have more time to spend with my family.
I was at a local show and there were 3 dealers that used to sell HP and decided to drop HP and stick with Roland only, so that tells me that somethings going on there.

 

[nate]

there were 3 dealers that used to sell HP and decided to drop HP and stick with Roland only, so that tells me that somethings going on there.

I'd bet it's because HP is letting anyone sell their machines. In my area not only do we have the standard sign supply companies trying for my business, we have other companies such as a local copier supply company coming after us as well for the same thing. Also, HP has required our local guys to build a separate demo room for HP equipment and then got after them for not selling enough units.

 

[bob]

This is for startup companies that are not as educated in doing contour cutting, that's all basically. I thought it was really cool because I could relate to not knowing how to do it myself lol. Lots of people said the same thing but for smaller companies it is kinda cool.

The thing is you only don't know how to do something once. You learn how and then you know how. Forever. At which time you might look at your tackle with the training wheels and have second thoughts.

 

[Bly]

HP are great at R&D and sales but support, not so much.
From previous experiences I would never have only one of their entry level machines.
Been waiting on parts for one of our 360s for about a week now.
It's a warranty job but still doesn't help me make money with the thing.
The Colorado sounds like it has solved a few of the problem areas of the HP latexes.
It'll be interesting to see how consistent it's colour is.

 

[BigfishDM]

This paragraph is full of mis information. I spent a great deal of time with Oce at ISA, but with Sal and the sales team as well as the product manager. They've said they got it certified for indoor hospital/food/etc. It's a much better solution than a 1500. In fact I doubt we'll be purchasing another 3100 even due to the speed/quality of prints. True it won't do full vehicle graphics with tight curves but it will do fleets which we do a lot of.

I know you're passionate about Latex-- and I am as well. But this is a game changer. In fact it cost you the sale of the 570 you have Dale? trying to get us to buy.

Nate, your a really smart guy and you guys have done some really big things over the years, we just won't see this the same way unfortunately. We sold 4 of those 570's at the show and Dale I sold a 560 out in his area also. I didn't plan on moving the amount of machines from the show but it was great for many latex dealers, will let Dale know and I appreciate the opportunity to get some bids to you guys. I was seeing the demos in the Tubelite booth so that's where I was seeing the Gel in action.

I think the machines will find a fit in the industry but that's not what is going to make it fail. The machine to me is not ready for market and by SGIA you will see some different things with it.

I hope all you who have tremendous success Regardless of what machine you own, I will have Media for all of them so it's all good either way. I hope none of you take my comments as personal, I am passionate that's all. Hope the new machine can make all you lots of money and open up some doors for people.

 

[BigfishDM]

The thing is you only don't know how to do something once. You learn how and then you know how. Forever. At which time you might look at your tackle with the training wheels and have second thoughts.

Yes sir, you are very correct with that statement.

 

[BigfishDM]

I'd bet it's because HP is letting anyone sell their machines. In my area not only do we have the standard sign supply companies trying for my business, we have other companies such as a local copier supply company coming after us as well for the same thing. Also, HP has required our local guys to build a separate demo room for HP equipment and then got after them for not selling enough units.

You should find out how many HP latex dealers there are compared to Roland or Mimaki, or Mutoh or Cannon, it's hard as heck get a dealership. I sell and or have sold EVERY wide format machine in the last 20 years, literally almost everything.

The absolute best people I have PERSONALLY worked with over the years has been the guys over at Ritrama and the people over at HP, also the guys at Intellicoat and 3M. Machine guys hate me because I'm always trying to push the limits of media in their equipment and media is my most important thing I do.

 

[tomence]

Dealers want to sell HP because of the marketing aspect and think they can make quick profit, same as the Epson DTG printer which is one of the worst one made so far, but they sell themselves because of Epson's marketing strategy, not because they are the best. It's all about marketing and nothing else. They are cheap to produce and the profit margin is very high so that way they can offer to keep replacing print heads and pay techs, if they were that good they would offer 2-3 years warranty bumper to bumper, but why would they when they start breaking after the first year, that's why they offer one year and charge your for an extended warranty which is enough to cover repairs in the following years.

 

[BigfishDM]

I have been doing pretty good for the last 9 years and my sales have been increasing from year to year consistently, so I must be doing something right. I don't do just wraps I do many other things associated with the sign industry. Why would or should i add an extra field that i have no knowledge of nor do i want to spend any time learning new things new markets. I am happy with what i do and even happier to have more time to spend with my family.
I was at a local show and there were 3 dealers that used to sell HP and decided to drop HP and stick with Roland only, so that tells me that somethings going on there.

That's music to my ears, any other Latex dealers you know looking to jump ship can only help me so that's great! Me personally, I am tied to that company like no other so I am choosing HP, not latex but the company as a whole.

The opportunity HP has provided me personally over the years is something I will never forget and my loyalty lies with the companies that help further my career and success. No one is perfect though right.

Again, I was not taking any dig at you personally, I meant the car wrap market is getting harder and harder to compete in and that it should be important to companies to know how the trends are shifting at a rapid pace towards new applications.