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Oracal says....Laminate reflective vinyl
- Thread starter DesireeM
- Start date
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Our problems are along roof lines, rear quarter panels, front fenders, trunk lids with no regards for vertical applications or flat upright. On some vehicles it faded at all areas and others maybe a front fender and a trunk while the cruiser next to it was the exact opposite and then maybe an older unit next to that one....... not at all. There was no rhyme or reason for what happened. It was mostly stuff we got a year or so ago [ maybe longer, since some time has passed] that coming back to haunt us.
We do a lot of police, fire and area trucks for many municipalities in our area. This one bunch got hit the hardest. I don't know, but maybe we just had a few contaminated rolls, but so far it's been open both ways between us and OraCal, except for the labor portion. I don't think any more are coming back, so I guess it's time to open that chapter again and follow up.
We do a lot of police, fire and area trucks for many municipalities in our area. This one bunch got hit the hardest. I don't know, but maybe we just had a few contaminated rolls, but so far it's been open both ways between us and OraCal, except for the labor portion. I don't think any more are coming back, so I guess it's time to open that chapter again and follow up.
DesireeM
New Member
Well the timeline for the product batch is roughly the same for us. All the stuff that's failing is roughly 1 year old. We only order in 10 yard lengths usually. We don't stock large amounts...just what we need that week so it wouldn't have been sitting around our shop for very long.
DesireeM
New Member
We supply the decals to the customer weeded and masked so they just rub them on with a credit card and then peel off the mask. You are right - the top surface of the vinyl is gone, along with the reflective stuff in the middle. What's left is a grey film and adhesive.
Stanton
New Member
:U Rock:
Are those holes all the way through,
or material missing in the glass bead/goo layer?
TammieH
New Member
Yeah, if its printed vinyl on a vehicle, you had better laminate it. If the print will be cleaned (ie window), or in a high traffic area, if you are worried about vandalism, Laminate!
The only thing we do not have laminated, are cheap temp signs. When I first started working here I had to convince the owner.
The only thing we do not have laminated, are cheap temp signs. When I first started working here I had to convince the owner.
Mike Paul
Super Active Member
Hmm,
A few things to consider.
- The cab company is installing reflective RTA decals...
- They use a Credit Card for installing pre-masked reflective vinyl so you know there
is a tremendous amount of bubbles and not a lot of pressure...
- Who knows what chemicals they're using to prep the vehicles. Ammonia, 409...
- No one really know if they are applying dry or with maybe w/ glass cleaner...
- It's a cab company so they replace and paint panels a lot, out gassing issue...
- Acid wash or high pressure power wash over a crappy install...
A few things to consider.
- The cab company is installing reflective RTA decals...
- They use a Credit Card for installing pre-masked reflective vinyl so you know there
is a tremendous amount of bubbles and not a lot of pressure...
- Who knows what chemicals they're using to prep the vehicles. Ammonia, 409...
- No one really know if they are applying dry or with maybe w/ glass cleaner...
- It's a cab company so they replace and paint panels a lot, out gassing issue...
- Acid wash or high pressure power wash over a crappy install...
phototec
New Member
Mike, these are all good points, lots of unknowns here, so there is no telling what the cause may be (yet).
striper14
New Member
haha thats a good one....laminating sheet reflective...your rep obviously thinks ur a complete bumpkin who believes any bit of twaddle he can dream up. reflectives been around forever but laminate has really only appeared since the rise of printers
many years ago the yellow cabs around here had some screen printed reflective 3M decals that they installed by standing 10 feet away then throwing it at the car then moving back & waving a kitchen knife at the door edges...no laminate & you needed a grinder to remove it
your pictures look like severe product failure, probably caused by installing on fresh paint...or some nasty vinyl eating bacteria unknown to science...
I'd give them replacement decals in 3M reflective ( unlaminated ). While normally I'd only warranty decals I install, I'd humor a good customer.Just train them a bit better...throw in a cheap squeegee. I'd also let your Oracal distributor know why you are moving to...???
many years ago the yellow cabs around here had some screen printed reflective 3M decals that they installed by standing 10 feet away then throwing it at the car then moving back & waving a kitchen knife at the door edges...no laminate & you needed a grinder to remove it
your pictures look like severe product failure, probably caused by installing on fresh paint...or some nasty vinyl eating bacteria unknown to science...
I'd give them replacement decals in 3M reflective ( unlaminated ). While normally I'd only warranty decals I install, I'd humor a good customer.Just train them a bit better...throw in a cheap squeegee. I'd also let your Oracal distributor know why you are moving to...???
DesireeM
New Member
Material missing in the glass bead/goo layer.
DesireeM
New Member
Wouldn't most of those things cause the decal to fail at the adhesive level? The decals are sticking fine. No problems at all with adhesive. It's the reflective finish that's gone. Leaving behind the bottom layer and adhesive.
DesireeM
New Member
So here's an update on my progress with Oracal. I received a sample roll of their 5650 reflective vinyl in the mail today along with a sample roll of the 290 Overlaminate. I didn't receive the full roll of 5600 to replace the failed decals for my customer like they said though.....
So the 5650 is the same product except it has air release. So basically it solves none of the previous issues but I guess they are trying to sell me on this new product. AND the laminate isn't cheap if you consider it has to have an equal lifespan to be worth applying because apparently their reflective vinyls are only as good as the laminate you apply on top.
In conclusion there has been no progress.
So the 5650 is the same product except it has air release. So basically it solves none of the previous issues but I guess they are trying to sell me on this new product. AND the laminate isn't cheap if you consider it has to have an equal lifespan to be worth applying because apparently their reflective vinyls are only as good as the laminate you apply on top.
In conclusion there has been no progress.
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nashvillesigns
Making America great, one sign at a time.
reflective
interesting conversation here.
(notice the word "con" is in here.)
1. is this vehicle the only one out of many?
i have a theory.
after looking at the picture, it seems clear to me that the mechanic who worked on this engine leaned right all over that decal. a lot.
i find the wear on it consistent with jeans or dungarees or whatever that person was wearing. if this was product failure, the "entire" decal would suffer, not just at the top.
i have unlaminated blue reflective on my shop van. its been on there for three years now. it looks very well, still.
-mosher
222b baker street,
london, EN
interesting conversation here.
(notice the word "con" is in here.)
1. is this vehicle the only one out of many?
i have a theory.
after looking at the picture, it seems clear to me that the mechanic who worked on this engine leaned right all over that decal. a lot.
i find the wear on it consistent with jeans or dungarees or whatever that person was wearing. if this was product failure, the "entire" decal would suffer, not just at the top.
i have unlaminated blue reflective on my shop van. its been on there for three years now. it looks very well, still.
-mosher
222b baker street,
london, EN
gabagoo
New Member
From your second picture it looks like something has gotten into the middle of the vinyl between the color and the clear on top. Looks just like that moldy look I had. I would think that this roll was defective as the top layer was not adhering properly. I am staying away from reflective Oracal until you get a proper answer from them.
DesireeM
New Member
The wear on that particular decal IS odd however there are decals on the doors and trunk as well on multiple vehicles that have the same issue. They are all worn out to different degrees and in different patterns.
mpn
New Member
One more out there question... Are all the problem areas going from the top down like the front fender pics? Maybe a harsh cleaner used then seeped from the top down, kinda eating at the reflective only?
I see the above comment and wonder if it was cleaner that was hand wiped on the car, giving the sporadic failure patterns
I see the above comment and wonder if it was cleaner that was hand wiped on the car, giving the sporadic failure patterns