Performance Increase - Best Bang for the Buck?

[Fred Weiss]

I am entering into a new development phase in my digital art business that will require me to either get a much hunkier computer to do the work or to beef up a nice stable but older box with all my graphics software, saved email and browser bookmarks already on it. The work involves 3D creation and renderings. What I am experiencing is image display delays of typically 5 to 30 seconds whenever I make a change and typical rendering times of 20 to 30 minutes for hi res final images. I am also experiencing low resource warnings after rendering an image.

I am also concerned about the one to two days work it would take to reinstall all my software, saved email and bookmarks if I switch computers.

The existing computer has an Intel P4, 2.4 GHz with 1GB of RAM, running XPPro SP2 and is using the integrated video.

I am considering replacing the RAM with 4 GB PC4000 500 MHz speed which is the top RAM supported by my particular motherboard. This would cost $432 plus tax and shipping.

I am considering a mid-level video card with 512 MB RAM at a cost between $50 and $75.

If I replace the computer, I am looking at a custom configured SystemMax from TigerDirect with the following specs:

• Intel D975XBX2 ATX motherboard
• Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600, 2.4 GHz 8M Processor
• 4 GB DDR2 PC6400 800 MHz Dual Channel RAM
• Radeon X1550 512 MB PCI-Express Video Card
• Windows XP Pro DSP
• Two Hard Drives and assorted other drives

The new SystemMax would cost $1,468 plus tax and shipping.

The 3D software I am using, BTW, will use all four cores according to their information.

What I am seeking is to have near instantaneous redisplay of the image display to promote a comfortable and productive workflow during the creation process. Of great interest but secondary to the redisplay issues is the rendering times of the hi res images.

So my question is which will give me the best bang for the buck? Will I get there or come close by beefing up what I have for around $500 or should I spend three times that amount for a new computer?

 

[Bogie]

You can maybe add more RAM without replacing what's in it...

IMHO, the "best bang for the buck" for a workstation is a dual monitor card. You have more real estate, so you don't have to open/close windows as often.

I'm max the RAM however is cost effective, and add dual video and another monitor.

I'm running a pair of 21" CRT trinitrons, and like 'em.

 

[dclet]

What 3d App? I have experience in 3d Studio Max since 3.1 and Lightwave, I prefer max Currently ver 8. and limited work in Houdini.

You will not see a huge big performance increase,

Render times will remain around the same. YOU WILL SEE much more stability... Instant gratification isn't something you get in the 3d world. Most of my rendering is done at night... while I
am asleep. ....

I would ditch the ATI card and go Nvidia, and not one of their gaming cards.... quadro series...

My specs aren't all that much different

Core 2 Quad , 2.4 GHz
2 GB DDR2 PC6400 800 MHz Dual Channel RAM
scsi 320 - 5
Win xp sp2.
Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTX pci ex <--- I do not like it..

render times are good, display is glitchy...under dx, openGL runs much smoother



I also have an older system -

Athlon XP
2 gig ddr 266
quadro series - i cant remember off hand AGP
scsi 160

render times are real slow, display redraw isn't....and is actually better then the newer system.

Lot's of variables...

I'd go NEW

You'd have to spend quadruple that to get results comparable to "vector based" sign applications... as far a speed....

 

[Fred Weiss]

What 3d App?

Not the whole 3D shootin' match. Just a specialized filter application named Filter Forge.

Thanx for the feedback.

 

[Techman]

Your running exactly what i am running now except i use an old ati rage card. This setup is adaquate for now,,
If I wanted to speed up image change times I would change out the graphics card to a higher level of speed with lots of on board ram. That will improve the instant image viewing.

However,

For rendering, that is all based on your 3d software and your CPU. Lots of muscle means lots of speed. Rendering is cpu based and is not accelerated.

There are techniques you can use to speed up renders. Such as cloning and stamping and partial renders.

 

[Fred Weiss]

So then what you are saying is that I would benefit from the quad core?

Since my purpose is to produce artwork for DVD collections, it would seem to me that if I cut the render time by half then i could bring twice as much work to market in the same amount of time ... which makes it worth it. But that's why I'm asking.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Bogie]

Don't discount the dual monitor bit tho... Won't help with rendering something, but back when I was playing management consultant, we did a little study, and a 21" monitor resulted in something like 4x productivity over a 14" one... And duals was something like 4x over a single... just for day-to-day activities, it's something I'd recommend to anyone.

 

[Bogie]

Idea: Could the rendering be offloaded to another machine - or more??? Think one primary workstation, with several machines each chunking away doing their own thing...

 

[Fred Weiss]

Idea: Could the rendering be offloaded to another machine - or more??? Think one primary workstation, with several machines each chunking away doing their own thing...

Not really. The application is both free standing or operates as an image editor plugin. Just depends on whether or not I'm processing an existing image or creating a new one. If you have ever used, for example, any of the the Eye Candy textures with Photoshop, and saw how long it takes to render a large texture back to Photoshop, you will begin to understand. Filter Forge is similar but some of the images are much more complex than Eye Candy even puts in their filters.

I understand the value of a two monitor setup but it's not in the cards at this time. Just can't give up the desk space. I do use a 21" CRT though already.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[dclet]

ahh seamless textures, Very easy to use...

Genetica

I have never used Filter Forge...does that have a size limit?

 

[Fred Weiss]

ahh seamless textures, Very easy to use...

Genetica

I have never used Filter Forge...does that have a size limit?

Genetica and Filter Forge seem to be the two options available. Genetica is better established and perhaps easier to learn but it has a 3000 x 3000 size limit. Filter Forge is more versatile and powerful and has a 65,000 x 65,000 size limit. I downloaded both their demos and decided to start with Filter Forge. I may come back and add in Genetica at a later date.

Not to take anything away from Dave Dorsey, but it may interest you to know that the Aurora Graphics Monster Wrap Fills we generated, at least in part, using Genetica. I can state this to a certainty because several of the fills in Monster Wraps are unaltered presets in Genetica. The same is true for the Vector Art Mega Digital Collection sign fills. Most of them are unaltered presets in Alien Skin Eye Candy.

 

[dclet]

65,000 x 65,000 size

whoa...

I did a bunch with genetica I'll have to post em....I do not use them as much as I thought I would....
I also do 'em in photopaint, not hard... just time consuming....

 

[Cadmn]

If vyou can find a way to use multiple computers for rendering it will save lots of time when I taught we had 17 systems I could set to render on at night. & it was great instant renders get a kray<sp> from NASA. other than that I don't see it as possible especially at 65,000 X 65,000

 

[jiarby]

I'd install a KVM switch and keep your old machine for email/office/websurfing and dedicate the new one just for rendering.

Also find out of all your stuff works in Vista. If you have to go back to XP Pro then you are stuck a 3.4gb RAM

 

[bullcrew]

Quad, good board (asus or abit) 4gbs ram and a 8800 or a pny duagro fx, raid 0+1 and a good fan on cpu.
ddr3 isnt necessary and is overpriced right now so ddr2 is the way with the price drops and the q6600 is running $279 now.
Boards abit ip35e or ip35pro are great boards with a ton of support and oprtions to upgrade later being the new chipsets etc...

 

[dclet]

textures

Dirt was done in CorelPHOTOPAINT
Sky was done in Genetica

Both tile well.

dirt

sky

If anyone wants the full res .tifs just ask.

 

[mark in tx]

For rendering, you want the fast hardware, fast chip, fast ram, and fast discs.
Some 3d rendering is just not going to be instant, it takes time.

I see your point about increasing production, but how fast will that production make up the money spent?
That is what I would use use to determine the purchase.

 

[Fred Weiss]

For rendering, you want the fast hardware, fast chip, fast ram, and fast discs.
Some 3d rendering is just not going to be instant, it takes time.

I see your point about increasing production, but how fast will that production make up the money spent?
That is what I would use use to determine the purchase.

Very quickly because I am creating inventory to feed into marketing that is already in place. Bear in mind that I publish and sell clipart and digital art. It sells readily on first release before leveling off. What I am trying to figure out is will I get most of whatever increase I can get by just adding RAM and a video card or will the quad core improvement over the P4 be significant as well both in redisplay time and in rendering time.

I am planning to time several filters and specific renderings to get the before and after figures. I guess that would be the most useful kind of information I'd like to know up front. I can afford either but I have other uses for the $1000 difference if it isn't going to make a significant difference in the time it takes to do these two tasks.

 

[bullcrew]

Again Q6600 CPU, raptors or like drive raid 0+1 (speed and stability), 4gbs of ram OCZ is real good(xp only see's 3.4 but PS will take 1.7 and pipeline a little if needed), 500wt PSU (decent one is corsair), typhoon 120 extreme if you want to push the quad (they are easily 3.0 mhz safe and FAST), nvidia (pny) quadro FX. It will crush the #D as good as your going to get aside of running a zeon processor (dual).

If I didnt have so much tweeking into my dual Id be running a quad Q6600. Mine is at 3.4 and with water (mtec cooling) I can get 3.8 - 4 safely.

 

[Bogie]

How much is your software cost per machine? Or is it per USER?

Share one monitor/keyboard among several machines. Set it up to run, toggle to the next one.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2840201&CatId=2628