Poll: Are you printing CMYK, or RGB files from Versaworks?

[TSG]

Curious who's doing what on this topic...Would greatly appreciate if you other VW users out there can tell me which color mode you prefer to print from?

Thanks.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Hmm...I export CMYK from Corel and bring them into Versaworks to print. Why one would even work in an RGB file makes no sense to me much less printing from one. RGB shouldn't really be a part of the process at all for printing...except to tell the customer...NO I can't print that NEON BLUE like their website shows on the screen.

 

[yukon]

I create our artwork mostly in Flexi as RGB and send over to Versaworks. I've found that the RGB art prints much more vibrant colors as compared to CMYK, which prints with a muddy cast.

 

[Bigdawg]

I disagree Kentucky... even though I come from a CMYK elitist high-end offset printing background...

but...

with Versaworks, the RGB conversion is cleaner and brighter than Corel, Illustrator or Photoshop's exported CMYK file. No matter what file format. So we print from RGB unless it is a customer supplied file. And in that case - we print what they send us.

I printed in CMYK for many years in offset printing... so originally it made sense to me to do that with the Roland. But we were never real happy with the colors so I started doing some testing. Same file.. one in CMYK and one in RGB. The RGB file matched color better, had more vibrancy and overall looked better than the CMYK prints. So we switched over to RGB about 3 years ago and haven't looked back.

 

[TSG]

I create our artwork mostly in Flexi as RGB and send over to Versaworks. I've found that the RGB art prints much more vibrant colors as compared to CMYK, which prints with a muddy cast.

Thanks for all of your input... Appreciate it.
Yukon, what are you using as far as a color pallet? Do you have any issues with grays, cream colors etc? Which rendering intent do you use?

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Interesting. I've printed RGB files before and the automatic color transformations looked the same. I'll dig deeper into those and try it...but I do know better than to let a customer see a proof on a monitor in RGB and then hand them a process print.

 

[Joe Diaz]

We print RGB. We get some real nice colors on our VersaCamm.

I like the bright greens you can get with RGB, I like the bright blues you can get, same goes for reds. I also think certain gradients look nicer.

For example red to black gradient in CMYK looks like red to grayish-brown to black.
red to black gradient in RGB is red to dark-red to black and looks much nicer.

Somewhere on this forum this was discussed and I printed some tests and posted the results.

 

[Jack Knight1979]

I run RGB is it's not color critical. The "pop" of the RGB is amazing, but if it's color critical I run CMYK. More muted, but the colors will run as they do on my calibrated monitor, so no surprises for the most part.

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

Designing in RGB will give you a larger color gamut. The best would be Adobe 1998 color setting and RGB. Even thought your printer is a CMYK, with today's inks, you can print more colors and more vibrant colors than designing in CMYK. Versaworks will then convert it to be printed. You should be able to print nice neutral grays once you have it profiled correctly. Typically we have found that printing the grays isn't the biggest problem, it when you laminate it, and the UV inhibitors in the laminate give it more of a greenish tint, but with proper profiling this can be reduced to a minimum. In Versaworks, I would suggest using Pre-Press US in your color management.

 

[Joe Diaz]

Somewhere on this forum this was discussed and I printed some tests and posted the results.

Found it:

These are the CMYK equivalents to RGB printed side by side on the same printer using the same software. Look at the gradients.

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

Also being a Roland owner, check out there webinars on this subject, they are free for roland owners, and explain a lot of this and how to linearize and profile you printer.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

So basically, designing in and exporting RGB files to print are only tricking your rip/print into colors that get automatically converted due to process rather than utilizing the preset conversions. But if you are proofing to your customer...other than printed samples...how do you keep them from expecting what they see on screen or email? Are you just saying...well don't expect it to look as vivid and bright as that though?
Just curious. Good posts.

 

[Terremoto]

sRGB has the gamut that corresponds closest to the output of a Roland Wide Format Digital Printer.

Unless you have a monitor that can actually see all the colors available in aRGB (they're available but they're mighty pricely) then you're best to stick with sRGB.

The Roland Wide Format Digital Printer is easily capable of producing significantly more than SWOP CMYK - if that's the CMYK color space you're working with.

Dan

 

[crystalcoastgraphics]

Kentucky Wraps, somewhat, basically your eyes and monitor can show tens of millions of color, but all those colors are not reproducible by our printers. We are limited to much less of a printable color gamut than can be seen. If you have a spectrophotometer that will calibrate your monitor to show the the colors that will be produced more accurately. And also you would be able to make custom profiles to get more of those colors you are having trouble hitting. To understand more of how your colors seen won't print you need to understand more color theory and perceptual vs relative rendering intents and how the rip takes into consideration all the colors not just ones that can be printed.

 

[yukon]

Strange coincidence that Roland Acadamy is having a webinar (free to Roland users) tomorrow (Tues) 9am pst: http://www.rolanddga.com/training/workshops/detail.aspx?cid={24b20f05-30b2-df11-a2e0-00505684649c} the topic is Tips & Tricks – VersaWorks 4.8 (part 2) – Pantone Library Support

I'll be attending for sure!


TSG - I use a few palettes: 1. Roland's Color Library (included in the Flexi software) I've added the palette to my workspace and also printed out a sample swatch of the entire library onto a 2' X 3' card for reference.
2. Pantone Solid Coated (also in Flexi) I use this to match to specific PMS colors using the actual Pantone Swatch Book as a reference. I usually need to print small test squares in the range of the specific PMS color to tweak it.
3. My own Palette which is also docked on my workspace. It includes frequently used swatches, some are from the other palettes, some are from Avery's vinyl library that work well, some are from colors I've "picked" from jpegs and it also has gradients I've created over the years.


In Versaworks I use the "Premium Wrap" profile when using 3MIj180. I do not use 3M's profile because it dumps way too much ink - it pools ink for some reason. I use Oracals 3551 and 3651 profiles with their matched materials. So the profiles handle the rendering.


I have the "convert Spot color" box checked always in the File Format tab of Versaworks.


I do have some issues with Greys, but I agree with CrystalCoast that the Lam has some effect on the greenish cast. Since changing to 3M8518 lam from Oraguard 290 I haven't noticed it much.


Hope this helps...


Yukon

 

[GAC05]

 

[yukon]

NICE!

 

[Joe Diaz]

But if you are proofing to your customer...other than printed samples...how do you keep them from expecting what they see on screen or email? Are you just saying...well don't expect it to look as vivid and bright as that though?
Just curious. Good posts.

Yes. It's a part of our sketch disclaimer. I tell them in person too. Heck when you are standing looking down at my monitor the colors look one way and when you sit in my chair it looks another. It helps to present yourself as the expert on the subject and avoid getting into a situation where the client is picking out PMS colors. You need to find a nice way to say, "don't you worry your pretty little head, let daddy take care of it for you". Once you've done that you use your best judgment CMYK or RGB to produce the best results you know how. If they have to see exactly how it will turn out, then yeah, you print a proof.

The problem I have with CMYK is blending colors or gradients. As predictable as you think printing out perfect PMS colors are, Once you blend those perfect colors it's up in the air as to what you get in the middle of those two colors. I have better luck getting the results I'm after - printing RGB files. Also there are no rules about printing your own RGB color chart if your customer insist on picking out colors.

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Kentucky Wraps, somewhat, basically your eyes and monitor can show tens of millions of color, but all those colors are not reproducible by our printers. We are limited to much less of a printable color gamut than can be seen. If you have a spectrophotometer that will calibrate your monitor to show the the colors that will be produced more accurately. And also you would be able to make custom profiles to get more of those colors you are having trouble hitting. To understand more of how your colors seen won't print you need to understand more color theory and perceptual vs relative rendering intents and how the rip takes into consideration all the colors not just ones that can be printed.

LOL there wasn't a question mark after that part. I understand how color is seen by the eye. Which is precisely why I was addressing the topic of explaining that difference to the customer after they've seen an bright and vivid RBG image (which will not be reproduced on paper). I suppose the question was more, finding a simulated CMYK view on screen that will show colors a little closer to the RGB simulations actually printed, rather than just leaving it for the rip to automatically do it.

 

[Salmoneye]

I design RGB in Illy, export to VW unless I am putting something to press, then I design cmyk