Presidential debate...let's hear your thoughts

[TimToad]

you must be talking bout montgomery. We are declining in businesses and economy.

So after 40 years of trickle down economics, and right wing leadership, your state is still losing businesses and economic vitality?

But, you want another heaping shovelful of it courtesy of one of the country's greatest flim flam men?

Sorry, but the definition of mental illness is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

 

[Snydo]

I seriously believe if there was a "NONE OF THE ABOVE" choice on the ballot it would win by a landslide.

I totally agree, worst election of my lifetime. Until we get lobbyists out of government, large corporations will continue to ruin us and we will get asshats like these two to choose from.

 

[ddarlak]

Trump or Clinton. It's the only choice, there is no other.

They are one in the same, a vote for either is pointless.

I listened to Gary for 15 minutes and realized he is a real person.

My vote will never matter, I live in NY where it will go Democrat no matter what I do. I learned along time ago that my vote doesn't matter in an electoral election, so voting for gary makes all the sense in the world to me.

bob and Trump, what a team!

 

[Marlene]

Make America Great Again...just when was that? the 1950's with Mccarthyism and Jim Crow? the 1960's Vietnam, race riots? and it goes on like that for any given decade. we are buying into the gloom and doom of the GOP's America and guess what, there is bad and there is good and always has been since the start of the country. the only thing that changes is what kind of bad and what kind of good and how you deal with both.

 

[Gino]

Again, it all goes back to a saying..............

You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.



But, a more recent quote was...... Leadership is about taking responsibility, not making excuses.

 

[royster13]

They are one in the same, a vote for either is pointless.

I listened to Gary for 15 minutes and realized he is a real person.

My vote will never matter, I live in NY where it will go Democrat no matter what I do. I learned along time ago that my vote doesn't matter in an electoral election, so voting for gary makes all the sense in the world to me.

bob and Trump, what a team!

Folks need to stop saying that.....Maybe this year a candidate like this does not have a chance, but if each election the support goes up, eventually they may....

 

[Pat Whatley]

So after 40 years of trickle down economics, and right wing leadership, your state is still losing businesses and economic vitality?
But, you want another heaping shovelful of it courtesy of one of the country's greatest flim flam men?
Sorry, but the definition of mental illness is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.

The City of Montgomery is going in the tank because the local government has borrowed every dime they could for downtown redevelopment. Looks great, made a lot of developers rich, won't support itself and will be abandoned as soon as the tax money stops propping it up. Throwing money at it is not a viable growth formula. Montgomery has a 10% sales tax rate and wants to raise it to 11%. People have fled the city resulting in less and less tax revenue to pay the debt the city took on trying to buy prosperity. The surrounding cities, Wetumpka, Prattville, and Auburn are booming.

Statewide Alabama has only had a "right wing" government since 2011.....and they are as bad as their predecessors.

Nationally Congress and the Presidency have been pretty equally divided between Republicans and Democrats over the last 40 years and none of them have created more solutions than problems.

No, trickle down economics doesn't work. Neither does over taxation.

We've been doing the same thing over and over for 150 years, why do you feel it's the right wings fault? Both parties are self-serving, corporate shills.

 

[bob]

..No, trickle down economics doesn't work. Neither does over taxation...

Which way does it trickle?

Wealth is created by production. Either digging stuff out of the ground and making something from it or growing stuff. There is no other way yet discovered. Just like government, a service industry produces nothing and thereby creates no wealth. All government jobs are merely overhead. In order to pay a government employee a dollar that dollar must be confiscated from someone who does not work for the government. Likewise the service industry is much the same without the confiscation.

Jobs, actual jobs producing something, are created by a thriving industry, not by the apparatus spending other people's money or a service industry taking money out of one pocket and putting it in another.

 

[TimToad]

The City of Montgomery is going in the tank because the local government has borrowed every dime they could for downtown redevelopment. Looks great, made a lot of developers rich, won't support itself and will be abandoned as soon as the tax money stops propping it up. Throwing money at it is not a viable growth formula. Montgomery has a 10% sales tax rate and wants to raise it to 11%. People have fled the city resulting in less and less tax revenue to pay the debt the city took on trying to buy prosperity. The surrounding cities, Wetumpka, Prattville, and Auburn are booming.

Statewide Alabama has only had a "right wing" government since 2011.....and they are as bad as their predecessors.

Nationally Congress and the Presidency have been pretty equally divided between Republicans and Democrats over the last 40 years and none of them have created more solutions than problems.

No, trickle down economics doesn't work. Neither does over taxation.

We've been doing the same thing over and over for 150 years, why do you feel it's the right wings fault? Both parties are self-serving, corporate shills.

I have no great affinity for the mess that both parties have helped create, but I've worked my entire life to overcome that and reform it by supporting policies that help the masses instead of just the wealthy elite.

Actually, we've had periods of time when the country chugged along with decent wages, appropriate taxation for most and the wealthy elites paying their fair share. Let's not forget that between the late 50's to early 70's the highest tax bracket was in the 90-100% for any net income in the multi-millions.
In fact, it was our greatest era of expansion and middle class growth.

Rich people didn't suddenly flee the country and our economy didn't collapse. Also, the percentage of corporate to individual taxation was exactly opposite of what it is today. Corporations used to 65% to individuals 35%, that ratio has been reversed to all of our detriments.

Statistics show that the economy overall and average Americans do better under Democratic control than Republicans. The myth that Republicans are somehow more fiscally restrained, is not borne out statistically and never has been.

We are one of the lowest taxed industrialized democracies on earth. I dare anyone to reveal their effective tax rate AFTER they've taken the truckload of deductions, expenses, exemptions, credits, depreciations, etc..and describe that as being "overtaxed" for the benefits and opportunities we all enjoy being in America. It is a right wing canard (fallacy) that has been perpetuated on the American people by those at the very top that we are being overtaxed. Take the estate or "death" tax frequently complained about as an example. It applies to about .01% of the population but right wing politicians and one of the presidential candidates has used it in their platforms.

 

[player]

In Canada we voted in a new guy (the one on the left)

 

[bob]

I have no great affinity for the mess that both parties have helped create, but I've worked my entire life to overcome that and reform it by supporting policies that help the masses instead of just the wealthy elite.

Actually, we've had periods of time when the country chugged along with decent wages, appropriate taxation for most and the wealthy elites paying their fair share. Let's not forget that between the late 50's to early 70's the highest tax bracket was in the 90-100% for any net income in the multi-millions.
In fact, it was our greatest era of expansion and middle class growth.

These 'rich elites' to which you refer, just who are these terrible people? I would wager that in your village, it's anyone with a couple of slugs more than you. And this 'fair share'? Just what would that be? How would that be determined? Who would do the determining. In this country to top 1% earned 19% of the money and paid 37.8% of the taxes. Is that their 'fair share'?

Statistics show that the economy overall and average Americans do better under Democratic control than Republicans. The myth that Republicans are somehow more fiscally restrained, is not borne out statistically and never has been.

Statistics of this sort suggest, nothing more.

We are one of the lowest taxed industrialized democracies on earth. I dare anyone to reveal their effective tax rate AFTER they've taken the truckload of deductions, expenses, exemptions, credits, depreciations, etc..and describe that as being "overtaxed" for the benefits and opportunities we all enjoy being in America. It is a right wing canard (fallacy) that has been perpetuated on the American people by those at the very top that we are being overtaxed. Take the estate or "death" tax frequently complained about as an example. It applies to about .01% of the population but right wing politicians and one of the presidential candidates has used it in their platforms.

What some other sovereign might or might not do could be of academic interest but it is not necessarily germane to this country.

Since estate taxes, the 'death tax', apply only to a minuscule portion of the population then that's OK, eh? Why should it apply to anyone? What call does the apparatus have on the capital of its citizens other than that the grandees in Washington think it's low hanging fruit?

Government reaching out beyond the one and only legitimate function of government is inherently evil and, as such, it should be kept small and broke. What's that 'only legitimate function'? To recognize, enforce, and protect the ownership of private property both real and chattel. All else can be accomplished without any sort of government. Think on that for a bit.

Before you drop you keyboard into gear consider that recognize, enforce, and protect means laws, their creation and enforcement, national defense and all that those items might encompass. The interstate highway system for example. It's not there so you can motor along between hither an yon. It was created to be able to move military assets efficiently. A pet project of Eisenhower. Many other things flow from the concept of private property. Free child care, education, and medical assistance, among other things, do not.

 

[OldPaint]

LIKE I SAID...........been here since TRUMAN WAS PRESIDENT, i do remember the IKE/STEVENSON ELECTION.yea.....1952, i was 7. was a smart kid, very observant, and soaked up information like a sponge. that is how ARTISTS brains work.......more info is retained, which gives us the ability to reproduce it......WE(family)was the 1st ones with a TV..then))))) normally tv signed off at midnite.......BUT the conventions they stayed on it.........it was a production..........and real time only. what the nation was THEN..........is what all of wish it was today.(those of us who remember it).
we had just defeated the GERMANS & THE JAPANESE in one of the costliest wars ever. costly in all aspects, from people killed to infrastructure destroyed.
THE ECONOMY........was on a role. everybody home from wars, govt doing their job, of fixing what the wars destroyed, here and abroad. all industry was UNION AND WORKERS RIGHTS PROTECTED. the mindset of the nation was unified......to PROGRESS at all cost. at thing ike di was the INTERSTATE ROAD SYSTEM. created jobs, lot of money flowing, coal, steel, farmers producing record amounts..............and we lived in that bubble from 52-63..........and have not been able to to make a come back. KENNEDY S assassination changed the whole nation. seemed the division of the nation really took off then with the racial divide at the for front. then the assault on the UNIONS, to take away anything to keep the economy of those who worked at a living wage. the decline has been going on since then.......ONLY WE WERE TO STUPID TO SEE IT THEN.
64 years later..........................this is where we are:
we went from electing the most intelligent military man to either a career politician or a guy who was RICH to begin with, has done nothing for anyone other then himself, has a real ego problem, and as unpredictable as (korea)Kim Jong-un AND THE PROBLEM IS a lot of will vote for him)))))))))))))
what i see, is the whole nation........NEEDS TO FIND A COMMONALITY.......just like we has in 1952.........but i fear the people of TODAY..........cant be who we and our parents were...........

 

[cajun312]

My UPS driver said the other day "Our federal government is full of crap, it needs an enema and Trump is the only one who might be able to do it"

 

[Billct2]

"Wealth is created by production." Really? Is that what all those hedge fund managers do? Produce something? How about all the CEOs who trash a company and walk away with 10s or 100s of millions? What was it they produced? And those are the same ones who can structure their income to avoid paying taxes. I'd be happy to see someone new get wealthy while producing some products made by people getting a decent wage.

 

[OldPaint]

"and if they gave the world an enema............THEY WOULD STICK IT IN ..........STUBENVILLE, OHIO.!!!!!"
quote from jack parr(tonite show host before jonny carson)said to his guest DEAN MARTIN, whos home town is stebenville, ohio.

 

[bob]

"Wealth is created by production." Really? Is that what all those hedge fund managers do? Produce something? How about all the CEOs who trash a company and walk away with 10s or 100s of millions? What was it they produced? And those are the same ones who can structure their income to avoid paying taxes. I'd be happy to see someone new get wealthy while producing some products made by people getting a decent wage.

Wealth is created by production. Read it, know it, be it. There is no other way.

Hedge fund managers et. al. can and do make money from production of wealth but, while this or that investment might do so, they create no wealth directly. Playing in a zero sum game and winning is not wealth creation. It's moving money around. Of the 'wealth' any of these people created, how much of it did not exist before they 'created' it? No a whole hell of a lot. Many people assist in and contribute to, wealth production, and sometimes even make it possible, without actually digging in the dirt. But then many don't.

There's a big difference between having a large income and creating wealth. Just as there's a big difference between income and wealth. The apparatus taxes income, not wealth. Unfortunately it's just a matter of time before the morons currently in charge wake up to the idea of taxing capital. On that day we are well and truly doomed.

 

[randya]

Wealth is created by production. Read it, know it, be it. There is no other way.

Sorry, bob, but wealth in only created by purchases.
You can produce a trillion widgets an hour and never create wealth without purchasers.

 

[bob]

Sorry, bob, but wealth in only created by purchases.
You can produce a trillion widgets an hour and never create wealth without purchasers.

As my old philosophy mentor was wont to say when confronted by tortured reasoning of this caliber; "Don't be an a$$."

It works this way: Since the invention of proper harness for draft animals ~10,000 years past, people could produce more than they could consume. Hence a surplus. Hence commerce. Hence civilization. Figure it out, it's not rocket surgery.

 

[TimToad]

Wealth is created by production. Read it, know it, be it. There is no other way.

"Unfortunately it's just a matter of time before the morons currently in charge wake up to the idea of taxing capital. On that day we are well and truly doomed.

Or that's the day that a small transaction tax levied on every trade, credit default swap, etc. starts to swing the pendulum back towards an equal balance between taxation on productive income generation and passive wealth accumulation.

What "production" does Google do to generate its income? Better yet, what "production" does Facebook do?

While an accountant, dentist, attorney or marriage counselor may not dig in the dirt or cast molten metal into a widget, their "service" sector businesses are no less productive, income generating or vital as that of a blacksmith or a signmaker for that matter.

 

[Fred Weiss]

Or that's the day that a small transaction tax levied on every trade, credit default swap, etc. starts to swing the pendulum back towards an equal balance between taxation on productive income generation and passive wealth accumulation.

What "production" does Google do to generate its income?

While an accountant, dentist, attorney or marriage counselor may not dig in the dirt or cast molten metal into a widget, their "service" sector businesses are no less productive, income generating or vital as that of a blacksmith or a signmaker for that matter.

Not really. In your examples, wealth is being accumulated by the individual, not created. There is no change to the total wealth of the group. Someone else has given up wealth to partake of the service. It is a zero sum game. Whereas the producer of a product, be it gold from the ground or corn from the field, adds to the total wealth of the group until the product is consumed or ceases to be useful and is depreciated.