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Pricing WARNING Signage / Durability

L

Lifer

New Member
I have a grain elevator that came to me and wants me to make all of their WARNING signs on their new facility. Although they can buy most all of them stock on plastic, they want me to consolidate them onto Metal. There will be 50-80 signs around the facility. The basic Text sign I'll do with Die Cut Lettering (oracal 751) on White Aluminum.

The image ones will be printed (Valujet 1204) on Oracal 3651 and laminated with Oracal 210 PVC onto Aluminum.

They also want me to install them. Some on Concrete Silos: I use a hammer drill with 1/4" bit, a 1/4" wooden dowel inserted into the hole and 1 1/2" long metal screws with Hex head screwed into that. (carpenter taught trick - cheaper than TAPCONs)

Some on Corrugated Metal Buildings (he wants a metal support).
Some on Metal Lids & Doors (planned to put the laminated 3651 directly on these)

I have a couple of questions about the job:

1) Pricing - Is figuring my time ($50 / hr) and doubling the cost of my material s reasonable?

2) Do you charge more if you have to install anything over 50 in the air?

3) Durability - he says he wants the signs to last 10 years. I know the die cut vinyl (751) should last that long unless abraded. What about the durability of the laminated 3651? (We switched to it when the General Formulations 6 mil started shrinking away from the edges of our signs.)

4) On the Corrugated Metal Building - he mentioned a bracket which supported the sign above the ribs. Is this a stock item anyone knows of?
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Sounds like a nice contract.

When doing a large amount of signs, we usually figure all the materials and not use as high a markup... and labor the same. You're going to have many hours in this from fabrication to installation, so make sure you get what you need and make a decent profit.

I'm not sure why you're using cast vinyl for die-cit and calendared for printing ??

Regardless of what you use for printing, you'll never get 10 years out of it.

For the bracket... a good sized aluminum 'L' piece should suffice.


Last item.... if you aren't sure about charging what... 50' in the air... are you properly insured and licensed to go up there ?? In other words, can you take this job on, if you aren't properly prepared ?? Have you ever been that high in a bucket or scissors lift ?? It gets mighty windy and cold up there, not to mention the sway is a little different then when on the ground with two feet. Not everybody can do this and without proper gear, licensing and insurance, you can't even find out legally.
 
Malkin

Malkin

New Member
Oracal 951 is rated for 10 years (not that I quite believe it)
If they really want them to last as long as possible, use the highest quality materials.
 
Mosh

Mosh

New Member
751 reds last about 6-7 years at most. Are these going on the outside of the bins? Cause you are not going to want to just start drilling anywhere on them...."carpenter taught trick - cheaper than TAPCONs" that might work on a hog shed, but I would never do that on a commercial job.

I would use max-metal or bend your aluminum into a box pan signframe, that is how we do ribbed buildings.

From the sounds of it, you might be best off to have someone else install these...a wood dowel? come on!
 
HulkSmash

HulkSmash

New Member
Lifer said:
I have a grain elevator that came to me and wants me to make all of their WARNING signs on their new facility. Although they can buy most all of them stock on plastic, they want me to consolidate them onto Metal. There will be 50-80 signs around the facility. The basic Text sign I'll do with Die Cut Lettering (oracal 751) on White Aluminum.

The image ones will be printed (Valujet 1204) on Oracal 3651 and laminated with Oracal 210 PVC onto Aluminum.

They also want me to install them. Some on Concrete Silos: I use a hammer drill with 1/4" bit, a 1/4" wooden dowel inserted into the hole and 1 1/2" long metal screws with Hex head screwed into that. (carpenter taught trick - cheaper than TAPCONs)

Some on Corrugated Metal Buildings (he wants a metal support).
Some on Metal Lids & Doors (planned to put the laminated 3651 directly on these)

I have a couple of questions about the job:

1) Pricing - Is figuring my time ($50 / hr) and doubling the cost of my material s reasonable?

2) Do you charge more if you have to install anything over 50 in the air?

3) Durability - he says he wants the signs to last 10 years. I know the die cut vinyl (751) should last that long unless abraded. What about the durability of the laminated 3651? (We switched to it when the General Formulations 6 mil started shrinking away from the edges of our signs.)

4) On the Corrugated Metal Building - he mentioned a bracket which supported the sign above the ribs. Is this a stock item anyone knows of?
Click to expand...

We did a job like this for Conagra here in denver. If you want it to last, don't use GF.
 
TyrantDesigner

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
Lifer said:
They also want me to install them. Some on Concrete Silos: I use a hammer drill with 1/4" bit, a 1/4" wooden dowel inserted into the hole and 1 1/2" long metal screws with Hex head screwed into that. (carpenter taught trick - cheaper than TAPCONs)
Click to expand...

That is nice, install with a cheap material on the final well crafted product so year or so when the wood rots ... a nice strong wind comes buy at 50' up, rips the sign off and kills someone.
 
L

Lifer

New Member
Your Scenario is a bit extreme, but point taken - I'll spring for the better fasteners. (They do have a similar system at Home Store which uses an extruded plastic.)
 
L

Lifer

New Member
Thank you. Good input.
Height installation would be at access points from elevator - never free standing scissors lift.
 
Mosh

Mosh

New Member
home stores....second rate PLASTIC junk is all they sell... go here for professional anchors.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/home.ex

Is this a hobby or are you doing this for a living? Using plastic anchors is like having vinyl
siding on your house....seemed like a good idea, but is JUNK!
 
Letterbox Mike

Letterbox Mike

New Member
I agree with the installation advice above, go with Tapcons or all-metal anchors, don't use plastic and definitely don't use wood. That wooden dowel is going to rot sooner or later and when it does the screw is going to fall out. Tapcons are going to be the cheapest when you factor in labor as well, one smaller hole and shoot it in, less drilling (larger hole) than a lead anchor or other friction-type expansion bolt. And anything more than a Tapcon is overkill for this. I just wish they made them in white instead of blue...

As far as vinyl, I wouldn't use 3651/210 on that, or General Formulations, if you're after 10 years outside. Go with cast on cast, 180C or if you like Oracal 3951. And even then I would not guarantee 10 years outside.
 
anotherdog

anotherdog

New Member
just a side question, are you insured to go dangling 50 ft in the air, and is your installation covered by your insurance?

another good reason to sub installation out.
 
visual800

visual800

Active Member
I can make a 10 year sign

I would make the signs out of .063 or .080 aluminum with oracal 651 and or digital prints with PPG urethane clearcoat, THAT will last 10 years and I can guarantee it. I would install the ones on the concrete with the small slam anchors with drive pins, stainless steel tap screws for the metal installs. the .063 or 080 aluminum would not need a bracket over the ribs(depending on the rib length and size of signs)

jobs like this are profitable but take time for the install
 
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