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Printing Double-Sided Banner on JV3-130SPII... Aneurysm Ensues

Discussion in 'Mimaki' started by Imminent Death, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. Imminent Death

    Imminent Death Member

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    This is about to give me a headache that will make medical journals...

    So we landed a nice $$$ job and we have 170 double-sided banners to print on our Mimaki. Well, we ain't never done no double-sided banners before, and this kinda sorta just got thrown into my lap.

    I can't get the dang thing to align correctly. The banner is 31"w x 44"h. I can get the tops to align for the most part (by starting the origin 1" in front of where the line is on the opposite side), but I can't get it to align in the center. I have it set to Center Alignment in Postershop, but that doesn't work (it makes the left 4.625 and the right 3.5). Now, as you may know, in Postershop you can choose to align left, center, and right... but you can only define the left offset. I've never been successful with getting PS to do the correct offset that I need.

    We don't have the material to just get this by trial and error. Is there any easy way to hit this dead on? Help, please... I'm dying over here.
     
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  2. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    if your artwork is 31"... but say for example you are printing on 36" media, and your printable area might be 34"...

    then what I would do is add 1-1/2" of white space to the top and another 1-1/2' to the bottom, so the image file becomes the same 34" as your maximum print area. This may add a little to the rip time by creating a larger file size, but it should also force the image to land centered every time.

    Things don't land in your lap... you take them on.

    Let this be a lesson that if you want to take on something you don't really know you can do... start by taking on 1 or 2... not 170!

    Once you hang this out in the sun, is your front side going to show through the backside?

    I would think so!

    Is your client going to be ok with that?

    I would think not!
     
  3. WB

    WB Active Member

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    All I normally do is play with the left offset so that the print is centered.. the just leave it when you print the 2nd side.. you might want to also think about oversizing your 2nd side just a hair..
     
  4. ChiknNutz

    ChiknNutz Major Contributor

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    Not using the same setup as you, but maybe the same philosphy will work. I don't seem to have any issues with getting it to print in the center of the media, so that I cannot help with. To align the 2nd side, I use a small needle to put a hole thru the mat'l where I want my Base Point to be (at the RH, FWD corner of the 2nd print side). After getting the media loaded true, I then set my Base Point on the printer to be at this exact point (which is done by aligning the center of the knife here). I know the Mimaki doesn't have a cutter, but there certainly must be a means to set your own base point, right? When I send the 2nd side print, it starts printing at this exact spot. Any of this help?
     
  5. GB2

    GB2 Very Active Member

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    I'd love to give you some advice about your problem, but right this moment I'm cramming to get ready to go to Atlantic City for the Signworld Show, so, honestly my best advice for this particular project of yours is to sub it out to one of the merchant members below. Merrit Graphics just had a special offer for printing banners that would be very cost effective for you to take advantage of.
     
  6. Kevin T

    Kevin T Member

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    Double sided never line up exactly. So you need to be prepared for a little offset, either add bleed or white space to compensate. Don't try to print these as one run break them up into smaller groups, that way you minimize the loss if you have a failure. You should use a true double sided material to avoid image bleed through. If you only have enough material to do the job you better order more because you're going to need it. What rip are you using?

    Honestly as much as you want to keep this in house and do it yourself this is not a job for a JV3, how long is going to take you to print 340 banners? If there are good $$$ in this thing then farm it out. This is a grand format job or even a screen job. Good luck and let us know how you make out.
     
  7. Imminent Death

    Imminent Death Member

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    The banner material that we have is 39", and we bought double sided material that is really difficult to see through. Our client knows about this and they're fine with it. These are just target alignment banners for a missile facility. They don't need to be pin point precise as far as aligning... just within an eighth or two of an inch.

    I actually tried a test with a thin black box... and now I can't even get the tops to align. Ugh.

    We have no time limit to make these and I know we'll figure something out.
     
  8. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    what are you charging?
     
  9. ColesCreations

    ColesCreations Member

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    What about printing the back upside down? If you print the front all the way to the right on the media (towards the capping station), which is default in Flexi at least, take the media out and put it in upside down, it will print the same distance from the right side. Then you can print all of the fronts, and with a bit of oversize you should be able to print maybe 4 or 5 of the backs at a time unattended, check that they are lined up good, then another 4 or 5. I have not tried this myself yet, much better you try and tell me if it works:Big Laugh

    Hey- that made 100 posts!
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2007
  10. Imminent Death

    Imminent Death Member

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    Not sure... I didn't sell this job, so I don't know exact amounts. The only thing that I do know is that the profit from this job is several thousands.
     
  11. Techman

    Techman Major Contributor

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    get yourself some regular paper and play around until you figure this out. Simple. No need to spend big money trying to calculate and align a print job.
     
  12. Merritt Big Color

    Merritt Big Color Merchant Member

    how do these need to be finished?

    if it is just hems with grommets and/or pole pockets.

    I'll do the whole job for you for $3,100.00 plus shipping.

    5 day turn
     
  13. Marie

    Marie Member

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    I hope this makes sense. It has worked before for me.

    After you have loaded the banner material for the first print, advance the material down onto the front panel. Put a piece of masking tape on the printer at the right leading edge of the material as a reference point. After you press enter, the material will back up about an inch from the tape. Then print the first side.

    After it is dry, roll it back up and flip it over. Reload the material. Line up the leading edge to your piece of tape. Like before, it will back up an inch after you press enter.

    Be sure to rotate the print in the rip by 180 so that the tops are going the same way.

    I'm not sure why the center on media button isn't lining up the tops of the two sides.

    Good Luck!
     
  14. insignia

    insignia Very Active Member

    FYI, the JV3 does not or cannot perfectly center something on the media by using the "center on media" option in your RIP. You're going to have to align the media to either the left or right side and trim down accordingly.

    For perfect back-to-back alignment, you need to put a piece of masking tape on the front of the printer (the textured part that curves down) about 8" down from the origin point. Feed your banner into the printer and stop it right at the tape, load as usual. Print about 5-8 banners on one side, and when they're done printing, feed the media past that banner mark a couple inches and cut off. use a takeup core and wind with the print to the inside. Unroll on your table, measure the distance from the lead end of the media you lined up with the mark to where the print stards (it helps to use crop marks here), and cut the tail end off perfectly square at that same distance as the lead end. Now, roll the media back up on the core tightly and squarely, and reload in the printer so that the printed side is facing down. Load the same as before, feed all the way to that mark and load normally. When printing they will be aligned perfectly.

    if you're making vertical banners, when you print the second side, you'll have to re-rip the file flipping it 180 degrees so it prints upside down, otherwise one side will print correctly, the other will not. Just print with left justification.

    But really, the easiest way to do this would be to take Merritt up on their offer, that ain't bad at all and I'd almost bet my house that you'll make more money that way then trying to do this yourself, especially if you've never tried a double-sided banner before, let alone a 170-pc order.
     
  15. KR3signguy

    KR3signguy Very Active Member

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    I love when you print the second side and a printhead drops out or you get a head strike. So much fun.
    If it's one original, go screen print.
    If it's multiples, go for Merritt.
     
  16. Imminent Death

    Imminent Death Member

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    I tried the masking tape tricks. I came a lot closer, but I can't get a close enough match. Grrr.

    I'm going to see if we can outsource this. The only problem is that all the material for the job has been ordered and is in our hands. If it were my company I'd send it all back, pay the restocking fee, and let someone else take care of it... because, honestly, I'm about to grab an axe and let my frustration out on my desk.
     
  17. Merritt Big Color

    Merritt Big Color Merchant Member

    What brand of vinyl is it?
     
  18. JERHEMI

    JERHEMI Very Active Member

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    I've done some double-sided banners with my JV-3 with pretty accurate results after a little trial and error with only a pen to make a few marks.

    First of all in your RIP, you have to "center on media" which takes care of your horizontal alignment. Then as far as your vertical alignment its a little tricky...you have to watch every step and move you make while adjusting the first side then once right before you hit the button to "set the origin" make a mark with a pen where their is a straight line on the printer itself, I use the groove in the metal where the media cutter blade goes through. Then once you make your mark carefully fold over the edge and make the same exact mark in the same exact spot on the backside of the banner then go ahead and hit "set origin" then print your first side. Then take off the roll and roll it back up on the core the opposite direction the install back on printer. Now go ahead and get everything lined up and let down the rollers then when you are ready to set the origin line up the pen mark on the media cutter groove then hit "set origin". If you did it correctly it should start printing in the same exact place.

    Depending on how your bleeds are setup and if you have full bleeds you might have to reverse your layout for the opposite side because if they are full bleeds when you hem the banner and fold it over you want it to match up.
     
  19. Imminent Death

    Imminent Death Member

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    It's banner material that is new to me. The boxes that the banner material is sitting in are labeled Vizuon Bannux 12oz matte.
     
  20. Merritt Big Color

    Merritt Big Color Merchant Member

    If it was Ultraflex or Cooley I would of offfered to let you supply the media and we would just print. Never used LG vinyl and probably never will....
     
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