Profiling...Been At this for a year, no luck

[dayusmc]

OK, I am in need of a little help (or a big drink!!). I have a Roland SP300v & I use Tech Advantage Ink. The software I use is SignLab Print and Cut 8. My problem is this- Colors Suck!! SignLab claims to have a better RIP than VersaWorks, but if I print something out in VersaWorks, it looks better (except Grays are tinted a little purple) In signlab, I tried everything, I created a print mode using my eye one, but it is still off bad. I tried everything, using input profiles, not using input profile, I tried all different settings- it still looks bad. I am sure I am doing something wrong. Any opinions on what RIP is better, SignLabs or VersaWorks? I am looking into making a custom profile in VersaWorks to see if that is better. When making custom profiles, what are some basic guildlines? Do I just do swatch scans and place them in the output profile? What do I do with the Input profile? With all the different settings in SignLab, it is like trying to guess the combanation to a lock. So any tips on how to make a profile, and what icc and icm and input and output stuff that I sould be using would help alot!! I have been messing with this for over a year with no progress. Thanks!!

 

[Gino]

Welcome from PA.......................

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

"When making custom profiles, what are some basic guildlines?"

You've been at this a year hu? So how did the oem inks treat you during all you're rigorous testing and profiling?

 

[iSign]

hmmm, a year... and what appears to be no clue...

I don't think it is an art that is supposed to be like guessing the combination on a lock.

Don't worry, I don't mean to sound like i'm insulting you... I don't have a damn clue about any of that either... but I have been printing with excellent colors for 4 straight years without any need or desire to learn about creating profiles.. I mean, I want to KNOW that stuff... I just don't want to have to LEARN it...& so far i haven't...


but what have i done different then you? Well, besdies buying a Mimaki, I'm not sure... but I bought my printer new, & got a on-site set-up & training... plus I've paid top dollar to fly in technicians twice in 4 years... paid a serious service plan fee, PLUS $1000 for transportation & lodging costs to Maui... but those charges factor into the fees I charge (like my thread yesterday on the twenty $60 foam convention signs, where several people only charge half that)

So, if i spent a year without good results, unless i wanted a career as a printer tech... I'd be thinking it might make better financial sense to pay for professional help & spend you time selling & designing signs!

 

[astro8]

I have been messing with this for over a year with no progress.

If you've been at it a year with no progress. I'm afraid there may be no hope for you.

Do I just do swatch scans and place them in the output profile?

No

Did you read the help files? Do you download and read stuff? Do you go on the Cadlink site, X-rite and Roland sites and search for answers, or do you just post here and hope someone is going to type out an hours worth of blab that you may not read?

If all else fails, read the instructions...better yet, take iSigns advice.

 

[dayusmc]

If you've been at it a year with no progress. I'm afraid there may be no hope for you.


No

Did you read the help files? Do you download and read stuff? Do you go on the Cadlink site, X-rite and Roland sites and search for answers, or do you just post here and hope someone is going to type out an hours worth of blab that you may not read?

If all else fails, read the instructions...better yet, take iSigns advice.

I have been working with the SignLabs techs on this for the last year. Basically the way they told me to it, was to use the built in print mode wizard- I did and now luck. Read all the help files, They read like Japanese's stereo instructions. I am not a sign maker by trade, and do not do this for money- this is a hobby for me, I really only make things for me and my friends. The OEM Inks were worse, that Is why I switched to the Teck Ink. No I didn't just decide to come here post and hope that someone would give me the magic solution. I bought a book on color management, but that was no help. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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The problem with the SignLab was there were too many variables. There is a box that says "Use Input Profiles When In Print and Cut" & a different one for print profile (I have that set to use "Use Print Modes ICC" Under the Visual Production Manager there are input settings for icc stuff and also there are settings for icc in the print mode package. All of them have checkboxes that say do you want to override all sorts of stuff. I have tried all kind of combinations. The best so far, is leaving the color management to "off" for the SignLab design settings and setting the VPM to "protected mode, Use Print Mode Output File" I guess my biggest question is, where do I want the input profiles to come from when I am creating a print mode package? Would I get better results with VersaWorks? I do not design on the same computer that I print on, I don't know if that would make a difference. Thanks for any advice!!! <o></o>
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I am hoping to use any knowledge that I gain to help my two friends that are local sign makers. They could not figure it out either. <o></o>

 

[Rodi]

Was this a new purchase? I think I-Sign is giving you good advice in getting a tech there, but first you need to get your printer to a state where the tech won't be working on getting you to that point and then leaving.

Start the new year right… put everything back to factory defaults in your printer and your software. Heck, I would reformat the whole computer.


You say Colors Suck, what do you mean? Reds not red, blues looking purple, what?

Personally, after a year, I would also go to the standard Roland Inks.

Why? Well that should give you a pretty good print out.

Has your printer been serviced and or overhauled? Is there something with the Printheads, the dryers, etc, etc? How about your substrate, that can affect alot.

I would forget profiling for now, usually you can get really good results with standard profiles that come with the software and printer…

On profiles, you seem to think that there is a perfect profile for every print. Well, guess what? No!

Profiling for printers can be so subjective. Why should your roland make the color of Bubble gum from a pack of sports cards have the same desireability to match as say skintone, and they are both fairly close in the CMYK gamut? You wouldn't!



http://www.rolanddga.com/owners/support/printerMaintenance/

 

[Rodi]

I think you just about lost everyone when you say the standard inks are worse. That is just an ignorant thing to say because Roland has sold so many of these machines and you rarely hear issues like this.

Signlab too. Great program. You say too many variables, yet you also say you are a hobbyist? How would you really know that to be compelete and factual?

There is something physically wrong with your printer and you ought to fix it.

BTW, if this is just a hobby, using an inkjet is going to be a pain because the heads need to be in constant use or they clog and you will waste gallons of ink.

I'm not trying to break them off on you, but your post is infuriating on a number of levels! That is not a swipe at you, ok, but I think most sign guys/gals are saying What is this guy talking about?a

 

[astro8]

http://cadlink.com/support_train/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1670[/URL]

Go here and follow this...took me a couple minutes to find it and a lot longer to read it...if you can't follow this you'll need outside help.

 

[dayusmc]

The roland Ink took a long time to dry. My printer was just service, new Main board, new print heads, dampners, wipers, capping station, etc... All back to factory settings. I rebuilt my computer that I print with (XP Pro SP3 32Bit) already, I thought that might have been the problem. I love SignLab but I am not having any luck with it and getting my colors right. Reds and Burnt Orange and Blues are a little purple, Greys are nice. I tried different vinyl (Oracal & Hexis) both have same results. I also tried going back to roland ink, that really didn't help that much, just gave me different problems with colors. The Tech said my printer is working fine. I get a good red and blue when printing out of VersaWorks. I get bad greys (a little pink or purple)

I just want to start by making a good foundation profile to start with. I just am unsure of the best way of going about it. I have reseached and found a lot of advanced stuff, but no real basic stuff. The print node wizard in signlab didn't give me good results.

 

[dayusmc]

http://cadlink.com/support_train/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1670[/URL]

Go here and follow this...took me a couple minutes to find it and a lot longer to read it...if you can't follow this you'll need outside help.

Thanks for the link. I actully found this a couple of weeks ago and tried it. But the monitor is way off when I use these settings. So I didn't go any further with it. I will run through the whole thing later and post my results. Thanks!!

 

[astro8]

Thanks for the link. I actully found this a couple of weeks ago and tried it. But the monitor is way off when I use these settings. So I didn't go any further with it. I will run through the whole thing later and post my results. Thanks!!

What's the monitor got to do with it? The instructions are step by step, clear as crystal..with screen shots.
Are you Forbie? If you can't follow this...man, give it up.

Is this you Mosh?

 

[Liquid GraphX]

What's the monitor got to do with it? The instructions are step by step, clear as crystal..with screen shots.
Are you Forbie? If you can't follow this...man, give it up.

Is this you Mosh?

Geez kinda harsh aren't you? So you did everthing in life like a pro never having questions? or problems? Why don't we all just turn over a new leaf in the new year and be positive. Give positive feedback.

dayusmc in my experience when I started printing I used Oynx and it worked the best. Everything I did was great outta the box.

 

[dayusmc]

Geez kinda harsh aren't you? So you did everthing in life like a pro never having questions? or problems? Why don't we all just turn over a new leaf in the new year and be positive. Give positive feedback.

dayusmc in my experience when I started printing I used Oynx and it worked the best. Everything I did was great outta the box.

Thanks do much. I am hoping to get atleast close to the colors I want without spending another $4500. I spent a lot on my hobby so far. I bought so much software, most of it I don't even use. I bought 4 copies of signlab and I am only using 2 of them- wasted alot of money!! Like I said, it is a hobby for me, but I was hoping to learn somethings to help some of my friends out.


When I started setting up everything like that post said to- my colors on the screen were so far off, I didn't go any further. 255 Red was pink. I am new at this, so give me a little break. I spent most of my life fighting in other places to protect our country and the people in it, until i got hurt and came home. So I am way behind the power curve compared to everyone that has been doing it for year.

 

[astro8]

Geez kinda harsh aren't you? So you did everthing in life like a pro never having questions? or problems? Why don't we all just turn over a new leaf in the new year and be positive. Give positive feedback.

For someone who says he has been at this for a whole year, he should be an expert by now, but everything he posts is nonsensical.

I'm asking for oranges but he's giving apples.

 

[signmeup]

What's the monitor got to do with it? The instructions are step by step, clear as crystal..with screen shots.
Are you Forbie? If you can't follow this...man, give it up.

Is this you Mosh?

Setting up the monitor was the first step in the link you provided.

 

[astro8]

When I started setting up everything like that post said to- my colors on the screen were so far off, I didn't go any further. 255 Red was pink.

Don't worry about your screen for now...follow the instructions in the link I posted, study the screen shots and you are more or less guaranteed to get a good profile. Use that profile and create another and they will get better the more you get used to doing it.

You can use your i1 to calibrate your screen, there will be other tutorials on the web somewhere for that as well.

If you're getting bamboozled, keep working through it methodically in stages, one step at a time until you get it right.

Once you understand it, you'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.

 

[Liquid GraphX]

I agree...everyone is trying to help!

I think buying more software may not help your situation either. Why would you need to purchase multiple copies of SignLab? Could you sell them and buy a better RIP?

You have to learn more about the software that you have now. If it is just a hobby then you may spend more time at it then it is worth is what I think people are telling you. If you don't have the thing running good and using it regularly then it will start to malfunction. One thing I can tell you that's free is read, read, and read some more.

 

[signmeup]

I suspect that your monitor is off and what you are printing doesn't match what you are seeing on your monitor.

 

[Rodi]

I suspect that your monitor is off and what you are printing doesn't match what you are seeing on your monitor.

That a great point, it is also a classic issue of trying to make the printer match the monitor… it will cause you to spend a year trying and failing.