Thanks for the input everyone I really appreciate it. Although readable to me I agree, the sideways "A" is a little edgy for a property management company. As far as not being able to see the negative space. In reading the article of hidden symbols in logos you'll find that many of them are indeed quite hidden, until pointed out. I like Jill's top design and may do a variation. I incorporated three of the suggestions I heard. It is a bit boring looking, to me, and the "D" reads as a play button. Maybe if it were a video store, although I can think of one off hand that's already done this. As far as all of you out there who post just to make yourself look like your king of a pissing contest, I'm not impressed. Although I'm a "newbie" here, I have 15+ years of experience in the graphics field, a degree in graphic design and art in galleries. I know how the design elements work and appreciate the critiquing process. To anyone who has ever posted here it is obvious. You're snide condescension just makes you look arrogant. Productive criticism is progressive. Unless it's funny, which I think many of you who raise their noses, are trying to do, ultimately fail. Don't get me wrong most of you provide great input which proves very valuable.